bring stone back

The Cubs aren't on a winning streak. The Cubs are winning. Please, explain to us why now would be a good time to make Murton, Pie, and Cedeno starters. Ryan Braun Yeah - that's an appropriate comparison. Very much so. The Brewers were winning with Counsellino as their 3rd baseman, why bother risk bringing up Braun? Ryan Braun is a much, much, much better baseball player than Cedeno, Murton or Pie. Not a fair comparison. Forget the fact that when Pie, Murton and Cedeno had their opportunities this year they failed. When Braun got his opportunity - he was an overwhelming success.

The Cubs aren't on a winning streak. The Cubs are winning. Please, explain to us why now would be a good time to make Murton, Pie, and Cedeno starters. Because they are have the potential to be better than the people they will replace. Doesn't this go against the "win now" mentality? I don't think Hendry/Piniella can justify giving at bats to Cedeno or Murton right now because they MIGHT be better. We saw them earlier in the year and they were worse than the alternatives. The point is there's very little to lose. Theriot/Izturis, Pagan, and Floyd have all been varying degrees of mediocre to bad. I see your point but Murton, Cedeno and Pie were worse than those you mentioned above. Why do they deserve to be called back up when the other guys have outproduced them? They don't...not right now. (That point you made about having little to lose was the thought process used behind getting Jason Kendall although that trade was slammed throughout this board).

The Cubs aren't on a winning streak. The Cubs are winning. Please, explain to us why now would be a good time to make Murton, Pie, and Cedeno starters. Ryan Braun Yeah - that's an appropriate comparison.

The Cubs aren't on a winning streak. The Cubs are winning. Please, explain to us why now would be a good time to make Murton, Pie, and Cedeno starters. Because they are have the potential to be better than the people they will replace. Doesn't this go against the "win now" mentality? I don't think Hendry/Piniella can justify giving at bats to Cedeno or Murton right now because they MIGHT be better. We saw them earlier in the year and they were worse than the alternatives.

Using that philosophy, wouldn't he want to throw a first pitch strike when the winning run came to the plate? Wouldn't he want to throw a first pitch strike when the winning run got on base and then in scoring position? Of course he did....just because the bases became loaded didn't mean he had this ability to throw a first pitch strike which he wasn't able to do to any previous hitter. Those decisions ultimately come down to the hitter when you're dealing with a player like Pujols. They always get the green light. I don't think any manager has any say there.

Not quite. You're right....those few would blame it on Dusty Baker. Give me a break. Stop speaking for groups of other people by stereotyping them. Personally, I've stood up for Cub players that have swung at the first pitch with the bases loaded on several occasions this year in game threads. Have you ever read any of these threads on this board? I feel the exact same way. I was/am in full support of swinging at the first pitch if it's what you're looking for but not after a pitcher with a tendency to get wild does get wild and walks 3 straight. If you tell me to look first pitch strike and be ready to swing after a pitching change or a mound visit - maybe.

Not quite. You're right....those few would blame it on Dusty Baker.

but it's very smart if it's the 1 pitch you're looking for and you're Albert Pujols Okay. Even though K-Rod wasn't able to locate more than 2-3 fastballs for strikes over the course of 3 hitters Pujols should just assume he'll groove a first pitch fastball right down the heart of the plate and find the strike zone with no problem, right? What if he throws a nasty slider in the dirt while you're looking fastball and you're down 0-1? You take the first pitch after 3 consecutive walks regardless of who you are and who's pitching. Let's say this was a Cubs game in this exact same position. Down by one...closer walks 3 straight wildly and someone swings at the first pitch with the bases loaded and flies out or pops up. You and every other member on this board would have went ballistic talking about how this team is so stupid, isn't patient at the plate and someone probably would have blamed Dusty Baker. we're not talking about you or some 11th grader batting 8th in a JV game, we're discussing Albert Pujols. he's not assuming he'll get a BP fastball, he's making up his mind that that's the only sort of pitch he will swing at. anything outside of that location, slower speed, spin, etc, and he lays off if K-Rod just threw 28 consecutive balls, I still wouldn't fault someone like Pujols for swinging at the 29th pitch if it was a fastball in his wheelhouse We're not talking about me batting against K-Rod? Oh....somebody needs to tell me these things - I didn't have proper perspective. Now that I know we're talking about Albert Pujols hitting it would still be foolish to swing at the first pitch in that case. Like I said, if it were a Cubs game in that situation and the Cubs' batter swings at the first pitch and pops up would you be understanding? Of course not - you and every other poster would be going nuts saying the team/organization/player is so inept. (If there is a Junior in high school batting 8th in a JV game he should quit. He's probably not very good).

but it's very smart if it's the 1 pitch you're looking for and you're Albert Pujols Okay. Even though K-Rod wasn't able to locate more than 2-3 fastballs for strikes over the course of 3 hitters Pujols should just assume he'll groove a first pitch fastball right down the heart of the plate and find the strike zone with no problem, right? What if he throws a nasty slider in the dirt while you're looking fastball and you're down 0-1? You take the first pitch after 3 consecutive walks regardless of who you are and who's pitching. Let's say this was a Cubs game in this exact same position. Down by one...closer walks 3 straight wildly and someone swings at the first pitch with the bases loaded and flies out or pops up. You and every other member on this board would have went ballistic talking about how this team is so stupid, isn't patient at the plate and someone probably would have blamed Dusty Baker.

unless you're a hitter as good as Albert Pujols and can easily deposit that pitch into the left field seats because you're waiting for it and it comes Pujols historically takes quite a few first pitches and is a very smart hitter. When a pitcher walks 3 guys in a row and is all over the place like K-Rod was you make him pitch a strike. Pujols or any other hitter likely isn't looking for a certain pitch - just making the guy prove he can throw a strike. Even Jeff Francouer would have likely taken the first pitch there. Despite the control issues, the first pitch is often the best pitch you'll get with the bases loaded. Even more so after a couple walks, the pitcher wants to get ahead to avoid walking in the run, so a good hitter would sit dead red on a fastball and not be afraid to swing if he got one(but at the same time realize it has to be "his" pitch, which Pujols is certainly capable of). exactly, the likely scenario there is that was the one pitch Pujols would have swung at Are you being serious?

unless you're a hitter as good as Albert Pujols and can easily deposit that pitch into the left field seats because you're waiting for it and it comes Pujols historically takes quite a few first pitches and is a very smart hitter. When a pitcher walks 3 guys in a row and is all over the place like K-Rod was you make him pitch a strike. Pujols or any other hitter likely isn't looking for a certain pitch - just making the guy prove he can throw a strike. Even Jeff Francouer would have likely taken the first pitch there. Despite the control issues, the first pitch is often the best pitch you'll get with the bases loaded. Even more so after a couple walks, the pitcher wants to get ahead to avoid walking in the run, so a good hitter would sit dead red on a fastball and not be afraid to swing if he got one(but at the same time realize it has to be "his" pitch, which Pujols is certainly capable of). Nearly every player in the same position as Rowand last night would have taken the first pitch just as he did. You can't say the first pitch is often the best to hit with the bases loaded - especially after 3 consecutive walks because the pitcher has no idea where it's going. That is why you take a pitch. What did Rowand in was he wasn't as good or as confident as Pujols and got defensive quick and was just looking to make contact on anything instead of going down 0-2. I know many on this board disagree, but I am ALL for swinging at the first pitch if it's what you're looking for but certainly not in that case. It's not smart.

unless you're a hitter as good as Albert Pujols and can easily deposit that pitch into the left field seats because you're waiting for it and it comes Pujols historically takes quite a few first pitches and is a very smart hitter. When a pitcher walks 3 guys in a row and is all over the place like K-Rod was you make him pitch a strike. Pujols or any other hitter likely isn't looking for a certain pitch - just making the guy prove he can throw a strike. Even Jeff Francouer would have likely taken the first pitch there.

I agree and agree. No way Krod's curveballs in the dirt get Pujols out there. Aaron Rowand pales in comparison. Did you see that first pitch? Pujols takes that out for a grand slam, a fastball right down the middle. Game. Instead, Aaron Rowand flies to right, which there is death valley. K-Rod walked three guys in a row and completely lost the strike zone....swinging at the first pitch would have not been wise. I can't say I blame him, but it looked like Rowand got a bit defensive after strike 1 and didn't want to go down 0-2 and strike out so he swung at a bad second pitch.

Which brings up a great question. If Murton goes on a tear and deserves to be called up do you then take DeRosa/Fontenot out of the lineup or put him at shortstop and hope for the best? I hope Murton starts to hit the ball in Iowa and we see just that.

Floyd is/was more productive and hitting the ball much better than Murton. What does that have to do with defense? It has a lot to do with my entire post why Murton should not be playing. He elected to take one small part to disagree with instead of the entire post as a whole. I said Floyd and Pagan are better options right now...which they are. Floyd is a better option, temporarily true. Pagan, not true. Note: Pagan is hitting .231 is last ten games. And Floyd is at .250, I,ll take Murton. Do you think it's fair to judge Pagan in his last 10 games? I don't...he's exceeded my expectations this year and has hit the ball pretty well this year. Yes because Pagan will never put up .320 he'll do .280 You go out of your way to point out Pagan is hitting .231 the last 10 games but fail to mention that Murton was hitting .252 in his first 50. Pagan gives you options at all the outfield positions, is a switch hitter, can actually field his position and can run. To sum it up, I'm not saying Pagan's an All-Star or a reliable every day player but he has not done anything to deserve a demotion and Murton has done nothing to prove he's worthy of a promotion or more at bats when he was in Chicago. I'm guessing by your name that your not all at pro-Murton or a little biased. He's my favorite player but I care more about the Cubs then I do Murton or anyone else. The cubs have plenty of OF then they need, we don't need a versatile one. As for speed, obviously Pagan has more, Offense is what we need and Murton gives it to us. When/if Murton starts to hit the ball in AAA then promote him and put him in the lineup. I'm all for it....what I'm saying is he needs to prove he's worthy of that promotion and deserves at bats at the major league level. He's done nothing his first 50 games in Chicago this year and nothing in Iowa to say that will be coming any time soon. In the meanwhile, continue to play Pagan and hope to God you can milk as much production from him as possible.

Floyd is/was more productive and hitting the ball much better than Murton. What does that have to do with defense? It has a lot to do with my entire post why Murton should not be playing. He elected to take one small part to disagree with instead of the entire post as a whole. I said Floyd and Pagan are better options right now...which they are. Floyd is a better option, temporarily true. Pagan, not true. Note: Pagan is hitting .231 is last ten games. And Floyd is at .250, I,ll take Murton. Do you think it's fair to judge Pagan in his last 10 games? I don't...he's exceeded my expectations this year and has hit the ball pretty well this year. Yes because Pagan will never put up .320 he'll do .280 You go out of your way to point out Pagan is hitting .231 the last 10 games but fail to mention that Murton was hitting .252 in his first 50. Pagan gives you options at all the outfield positions, is a switch hitter, can actually field his position and can run. To sum it up, I'm not saying Pagan's an All-Star or a reliable every day player but he has not done anything to deserve a demotion and Murton has done nothing to prove he's worthy of a promotion or more at bats when he was in Chicago. I'm guessing by your name that your not all at pro-Murton or a little biased.

Floyd is/was more productive and hitting the ball much better than Murton. What does that have to do with defense? It has a lot to do with my entire post why Murton should not be playing. He elected to take one small part to disagree with instead of the entire post as a whole. I said Floyd and Pagan are better options right now...which they are. Floyd is a better option, temporarily true. Pagan, not true. Note: Pagan is hitting .231 is last ten games. And Floyd is at .250, I,ll take Murton. Do you think it's fair to judge Pagan in his last 10 games? I don't...he's exceeded my expectations this year and has hit the ball pretty well this year.

Floyd is/was more productive and hitting the ball much better than Murton. Murton's career line is 294/363/441. He's 25 and likely to improve. Floyd's career line is 279/359/485. That's only marginally better if any than Murton. He's 34 and likely to decline. This season, Floyd is hitting 292/363/398 which is lower than Murton's career line. Now in his first 119 AB's, I'll admit Murton struggled. I still think if given equal playing time over the course of a season, Murton would outproduce Floyd both offensively and defensively. Murton may or may not be the answer in rightfield for the Cubs, but he's as good if not better than what we've been using in that spot. I like Pagan more right now. He's been hitting the ball fairly well this year and covers ground in the outfield. One thing I don't understand is why some on this site are so impatient and want a winner now yet feel they should continue to let Murton play himself out of this horrible slump he's in. If he's not hitting the ball and getting on base (which he hasn't done this year) he brings absolutely nothing to the team.

Floyd is/was more productive and hitting the ball much better than Murton. What does that have to do with defense? It has a lot to do with my entire post why Murton should not be playing. He elected to take one small part to disagree with instead of the entire post as a whole. I said Floyd and Pagan are better options right now...which they are.

Floyd is/was more productive and hitting the ball much better than Murton.

Another Murton excuse on this site? No way... This isn't little Johnny trying to make the varsity roster so let's please do away with the pressure argument. This is professional sports....I would sure hope there's pressure. Murton was given every opportunity to be a starting corner outfielder and he didn't produce. If you don't produce, it's Lou's job to insert someone else who will - which is exactly what he is trying to find. Murton is a light hitting corner outfielder with a poor arm, average speed and a major defensive liability every time he steps on the field. Just because he knows how to take a pitch and has "upside" he should be given the benefit of the doubt and let him play out of this prolonged slump? I thought the fans wanted this team to win now?? It's one or the other. http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/murtoma01.shtml Don't know where to begin. Either do I. He had a nice year last year for a team going nowhere under a lame duck manager. He is a horrible defender anywhere you put him and hasn't hit at all this year. Should Lou overlook those two glaring facts and continue to put him in the lineup because he has upside? He is exactly where he should be right now....AAA. I'd like to see the Cubs package him with Marshall and see what they can get. So 455 ABs as a 24-year-old, posting better than league-average numbers, doesn't count for anything b/c the team sucked as the manager was a "lame duck." But the sporadic ABs he had scattered over 2 months this year have convinced you that he should be benched in favor of a 35-year-old with an injury history and 0 power? Murton's exactly the kind of player good teams use to be successful - young, cheap, better than average production. Some grow to be studs, some don't, but as long as you get solid production out of them, you can concentrate you limited funds on more glaring needs. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. Yes, to a certain extent I do think it's easier for personal success on a bad team. I don't think it's a huge factor but I do think there is a correlation. I'm not trying to fight with you about this but he is a defensive liability every time he steps on the field and has not hit the ball at all this year. His production does not warrant playing time. I don't know why that is so hard to understand. I could care less how much he makes and how old/young he is. I would put guys on the field who produce. If they don't, I look for someone else which is exactly what they did with Murton. You honestly feel the Cubs should call him back up and play him every day because he's young, cheap and played above average last year? Pagan and Floyd are better options right now.

Didn't take me long to learn that most of what Lou says is complete BS. He's essentially saying that if you produce - you'll play. If you don't - you won't. That's the way it should be.

Another Murton excuse on this site? No way... This isn't little Johnny trying to make the varsity roster so let's please do away with the pressure argument. This is professional sports....I would sure hope there's pressure. Murton was given every opportunity to be a starting corner outfielder and he didn't produce. If you don't produce, it's Lou's job to insert someone else who will - which is exactly what he is trying to find. Murton is a light hitting corner outfielder with a poor arm, average speed and a major defensive liability every time he steps on the field. Just because he knows how to take a pitch and has "upside" he should be given the benefit of the doubt and let him play out of this prolonged slump? I thought the fans wanted this team to win now?? It's one or the other. http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/murtoma01.shtml Don't know where to begin. Either do I. He had a nice year last year for a team going nowhere under a lame duck manager. He is a horrible defender anywhere you put him and hasn't hit at all this year. Should Lou overlook those two glaring facts and continue to put him in the lineup because he has upside? He is exactly where he should be right now....AAA. I'd like to see the Cubs package him with Marshall and see what they can get.

Another Murton excuse on this site? No way... This isn't little Johnny trying to make the varsity roster so let's please do away with the pressure argument. This is professional sports....I would sure hope there's pressure. Murton was given every opportunity to be a starting corner outfielder and he didn't produce. If you don't produce, it's Lou's job to insert someone else who will - which is exactly what he is trying to find. Murton is a light hitting corner outfielder with a poor arm, average speed and a major defensive liability every time he steps on the field. Just because he knows how to take a pitch and has "upside" he should be given the benefit of the doubt and let him play out of this prolonged slump? I thought the fans wanted this team to win now?? It's one or the other.

It absolutely does not matter....whatever gets you to second base the the fastest. Coaches will watch you make your turn a few times and make sure you're not wasting any steps or movement but should not recommend a certain foot over another.