bring stone back

I'd like to see three innings of Marshall. I'd like to see Wuertz get somebody out.

Sure, and I never said I had a problem with that... indeed, in my post I specifically said that I would have used Marmol/Wood for the 8th/9th. It's pulling Hill early, using Lieber and Marshall for short stints, and extending Marmol too much that I have the problem with. And I fairly clearly said that. The 7th had Marmol facing Paulino, Bautista and Morgan. Not exactly murderers row there. And certainly there's no need for your best reliever when your 4th or 5th best will get the job done -- allowing you to use your best reliever against their best hitters. I don't see how you're extending Marmol too much by throwing him 2 innings when he had 3 days off before and will very likely get tomorrow off. How do you know the 4th or 5th best pitchers could get the job done? As I clearly said, I wouldn't trust Wuertz or Howry in any meaningful game - especially with Marmol sitting there with 3 days rest regardless of who you're facing.

Probably because right now - those are the guys he trusts. Would you want to put Howry or Wuertz in a close game right now? I wouldn't and it looks like Lou wouldn't either. Let's not get caught up with long or short relief - just guys who will get outs until the rest of the bullpen straightens themself out. I hope/assume that will change in a couple weeks but for today it was smart and it worked. You can't get on track until and unless you're thrown out there a couple of times; it's a long season. Despite their early struggles vis-a-vis Lieber and Marshall's early successes, I still trust Wuertz and Howry in short situations more. Wuertz, by the way, is only pitching poorly in comparison to a small sample size. Wuertz has a 1.38 WHIP and his 5.63 K/9 is 4th among the bullpen (behind Marmol, Wood and Hart). Which is why you saw those guys pitching when the Cubs were being routed by the Reds. We all know, including Lou, those guys will be contributors to the bullpen but right now they're not pitching well and non-pressure situations are ideal for them until they get "right." Let them use that time to get comfortable but when it's a 1 or 2 run game - I'll take Marmol and Wood over Wuertz and Howry - wouldn't you?

Probably because right now - those are the guys he trusts. Would you want to put Howry or Wuertz in a close game right now? I wouldn't and it looks like Lou wouldn't either. Let's not get caught up with long or short relief - just guys who will get outs until the rest of the bullpen straightens themself out. I hope/assume that will change in a couple weeks but for today it was smart and it worked. yeah, for today. and i'm guessing you'll be the first one crying about overuse when the cubs can't hold a lead in august because marmol's got a broken arm. you don't manage baseball games for today. Let's see - Marmol has had the last 3 days off and will likely be getting a day off tomorrow regardless yet he pitched 40 pitches today? Oh my, God - I'm surprised Marmol is not dead!! You don't manage games for today? Interesting - should Lou be aligning his bullpen for the playoff stretch in April then? I can't believe he threw Wood so much in Spring Training knowing full well we'd need him in September. If Marmol breaks his arm falling out of a tree or something - that is out of my control but I will likely not cry. Thanks for your concern.

Probably because right now - those are the guys he trusts. Would you want to put Howry or Wuertz in a close game right now? I wouldn't and it looks like Lou wouldn't either. Let's not get caught up with long or short relief - just guys who will get outs until the rest of the bullpen straightens themself out. I hope/assume that will change in a couple weeks but for today it was smart and it worked.

What a bitter, bitter man. They seemed upset that A) the Reds were getting killed and B) Brantley no longer has a job with ESPN and now he's relegated to Reds radio and at the end of the day nobody really cares about the Reds. The best part was when they said the Cubs won't win because they are the Chicago Cubs and Cubs fans won't blame themselves for the losses - they'll blame the goat. What the hell? I'm going to be the "bigger fan" here and take the blame in '03 for booting that sure double play at shortstop in the 8th inning of game 6 of the NLCS. I'd like to hope some of you here take my lead and start taking the blame for past losses, as well...it's the right thing to do??!

You truly do love your hyperbole, don't you? Personally, I was guilty of supporting Theriot but frankly I don't care who they play at SS anymore (although Theriot has been hitting the ball the last couple games). Whoever does play SS should hit 7th or 8th. As far as your Hill comment, that is just silly. The Cubs put him in the pen for only 2 games yet you act as if the Cubs, and those who supported this TEMPORARY move, want to banish him to the bullpen forever and never see him again. You do realize he's starting Friday, and like most who supported this temporary move, I'm hopeful a few extra bullpen sessions helped him mechanically.

Get Pie in for Johnson the next time thru to get a couple cheap AB's.

what the crap? what the crap! man, murton is our poor little bastard child Marshall couldn't even make the team out of spring, Hill is out of the rotation after two starts, and Murton can't even get a call-up when Soriano is hurt. I give up. They are actively trying to lose at this point. By "Hill is out of the rotation" you mean he's scheduled to start on Friday, right? Judging by the overreactions by some on this board you would have thought Hendry put Hill out to pasture or something....wow. He was relegated to the bullpen for a couple games - oh the humanity!!

I don't think hell is necessary - the bench will do just fine.

I don't know who you're talking to but I didn't once consider this as "helping" Pie by benching him. I'm suggesting benching him because he isn't hitting the baseball and Reed Johnson is. The manager's job is to put players in a position to succeed and give the Cubs the best chance to win every day - that would be Reed Johnson.

Maybe that has something to do with the fact that, prior to tonight, Pie had seen all of SEVEN plate appearances over the past week. And the only reason he saw that many was because there were some games that dragged on forever and he got thrown in late. How people expect a young guy who clearly needs to work on hitting major league pitching to sit on the bench for a week then come up against one of the better pitchers in all of baseball (having an off night or not) and start to rake is beyond me. What? It's April and we are a game and a half back of a ST. Louis team playing way above their heads. We aren't in a late-season playoff chase, here. That's baloney. This lineup (even without Soriano) is potent. Between Lee, Ramirez, Fukudome, and even DeRosa and Soto at times, there is plenty of firepower on this team. Especially when we are going to be facing the likes of the Reds and the Pirates for the next 5 games. There is no reason not to start Pie. I'm not expecting Pie to rake with limited appearances. I am expecting him to look like he has a clue what he's doing. You can tell when a guy is slumping and/or uncomfortable or overmatched. Pie is overmatched right now. No, this isn't a late season playoff push but the games still count and the Cubs are likely to be neck and neck with the Brewers all year. Every game counts whether it's April or September. There is a reason not to start Pie - his name is Reed Johnson.

nm

Yep. He is so overmatched at the plate it's comical at times. The question now is do you keep him with the big league team and give him a start every 10 games or so and let him be a late inning defensive replacement or send him down and let him work on shortening his swing? I know, I know...he crushes AAA pitching and has nothing more to prove. Clearly he does have more to prove because nothing he did down there is translating here and now. Unbelievable. People are talking like it's two weeks until the end of the season as opposed to just two weeks into it and Pie hasn't had all that many AB's. There should be zero question what to do with him...how is he supposed to adjust and step up if he doesn't get regular playing time? It's a painful process, but it has to be done to see if he can make the jump. If the Cubs aren't even going to bother to do that for at least a couple months, just give up on him now and trade him while he was value instead of dumping off yet another prospect they've screwed up. It's one thing to be in a slump or not look comfortable - it's another thing to look completely overmatched. To call Pie a black hole in the lineup right now is a slap in the face to black holes. The Cubs are a better team with Reed Johnson in the lineup. I wish it wasn't so and Felix was hitting well but right now he's just overmatched and it isn't even close. The Cubs have no room for error here - they're just not a good enough team to keep throwing him out there against every righty hoping this is the game "he'll figure it out."

Yep. He is so overmatched at the plate it's comical at times. The question now is do you keep him with the big league team and give him a start every 10 games or so and let him be a late inning defensive replacement or send him down and let him work on shortening his swing? I know, I know...he crushes AAA pitching and has nothing more to prove. Clearly he does have more to prove because nothing he did down there is translating here and now.

It's not like he was doing kartwheels out there. It was a pretty innocent little bunny hop which he's probably been doing since the first day he was playing in the outfield. If he strained his calf on something like that it was bound to happen sooner or later. What is more concerning isn't his bunny hops in the outfield but how is legs may be starting to break down (see hamstring last year) and what this means for this season and the 6 after. This contract wasn't Zito dumb but it was awfully stupid.

I forgot that all of NSBB's brilliant minds (who just happen to not be brilliant enough to have jobs in baseball) do. Pretty much always it seems. (I'm not saying I agree with yanking Hill, but seriously, people on NSBB think they know everything about baseball - sometimes it gets tiresome). Ahh...the famous attack the posters when you can't attack the posts strategy...you must be an aspiring politician. When you can't attack another candidates view points or plans, you attack the candidate himself and try to discredit him. Brilliant. Better question - is he wrong? They are taking unusual steps BECAUSE they see how much talent, potential and upside he has. They won't put Marquis or Lilly to the bullpen because this is who they are - what you see is what you get. Hill has the talent to be so much better.

This is based on a pattern of wildness throughout Spring Training and into the regular season. The assumption on the part of the coaching staff is that it is a mechanical problem that requires extra side sessions that will push back his next start to next Thursday. No one knows anything beyond that. This isn't about "playing the hot hand." It is about getting arguably the 2nd best pitcher on the staff to regain the mechanics that make him the 2nd best starting pitcher. Given that the coaching staff is around him 8 hours per day and watch not only his starts, but also his side sessions, if they feel like they can correct his mechanical issues with side sessions and a couple of no-stress relief outings (which could potentially give much-needed relief to a bullpen that has been taxed lately AND get Hill the innings he missed out on in his short start this week), then they, at the very least, have a significant amount of data from which to base their decision. Based upon sheer amount of evidence, their decision is far from "stupid." If it goes beyond a week and actually turns into some sort of benching, then this is a stupid move and should be condemned. If they work with him, he improves his mechanics, and starts next weekend and doesn't possess the same control problems, then it will have been an effective strategy, and all the hand-wringing that has gone on will be for naught. I, for one, am willing to give Marshall a single start if it means Hill will figure out the mechanical issues that have been plaguing him this year and return to being the 2nd best pitcher on this staff. well said.

When they deal with confidence and head issues, as acknowledged by Hill and the organization numerous times, it is much more than that. That "issue" just took off. The Cubs made some comments and everyone picked up on it and wouldn't let it go, so they interviewed Hill about it a bunch of times. What was he supposed to say? There was even talk about a book that Rothschild supposedly gave to Hill on sports psychology to help him out, which helped. The only problem was that Hill had that book for several years. Saying that he has "head issues" is just absurd, whether it comes from the Cubs, media, or on a message board. And you would know this how - your extensive dealings with Rich Hill? Fact is the organization has mentioned numerous times, as has Hill. I highly doubt the organization and Hill would acknowledge confidence and head issues if there wasn't some substance to it. In regards to "what was he supposed to say" - if someone asked him about a lack of confidence or "head" issues and they weren't real I'm guessing Hill would reply with something like, "there is nothing to that, period." He didn't.

You're right. The problem is that we know the probabilities involved, and Lou is playing against the odds. If it works, great... but that doesn't make the decision any smarter. I didn't realize there were odds on giving a starter a few extended bullpen sessions so he can try to straighten himself out. If there are, each starter is different so I wouldn't say he is or isn't "beating the odds" here. What I do know is that Hill has a lot of talent and upside but has been terrible since Spring and right now he's hurting the team. The Cubs are taking a calculated risk that they can take this situation they're currently in and try to improve it. What is the absolute worst thing that can happen - Hill is inserted back into the rotation in a couple weeks and loses his control again and gets shelled? I just saw that movie...

No, it's really not, because our kneejerk reactions don't stupidly make the team worse. Knee jerk reactions like replacing a center fielder who was so overmatched at the plate at times it was comical for a player outproducing him? Those like giving a starting pitcher, who has been brutal since day one of Spring, some extended bullpen work so he can straighten himself out and actually help the team instead of hurt it? The Cubs will be battling a team that in my opinon are better than them in the Brewers all year long for the Central. The Cubs have no room for error here. For a fanbase who cries so much about 100 years of misery and we need to win know I'm amazed at how upset people get when a manager makes decisions to try to achieve that.

He is good right now. Maybe that changes in his next appearance or 10 appearances from now, but right now he is. I say keep putting him out there in positions to succeed while buying time for Hill to straighten himself out. This could be a very good thing. None of us know so let's let it play out.

Comments like "gets in his own way" or "he is his own worst enemy" are used to describe just about every good pitcher who is going through command issues. They don't actually mean anything other than walks are doing more damage than the opposing hitters. When they deal with confidence and head issues, as acknowledged by Hill and the organization numerous times, it is much more than that.

because you're assuming that moving hill out of his routine, demoting him to the bullpen and taking away his job is somehow going to fix him. that's the problem with everybody assuming this is some kind of win-win...you're operating under the assumption that he's going to pitch two innings out of the pen and be 2007 rich hill again. Quite the opposite. Another poster in another thread went to great lengths describing how he witnessed and heard Rothschild working with Hill on a mechanical flaw which was hurting him. They were working on it and when Hill started to figure it out results were noticable and even Hill said he felt better with it. Maybe the Cubs are thinking let's give him 3-4 lengthy bullpen sessions to fix this flaw, let's put him in a few "less pressure" situations in games to work on it and get his confidence back, maybe the Cubs asked Hill to take a step back and work on his mechanical/confidence issues and not worry about his next start or two. To say Lou sucks, he's annoying, this is a stuipid decision is just ignorant. We ALL know this is NOT a permanent thing - the story on cubs.com says it's for this series only. Let's just relax and see how this plays out. I see a lot of positives that can come out of this. They see his upside, talent and potential which is why they're doing this. If anything, this is a sign the organization values Hill's upside and talent and why they're taking these steps they feel may benefit Hill.

70% - is that your scientific poll you conducted since yesterday? Impressive. If you hate the Cubs why do you frequent a message board dedicated to discussing the Chicago Cubs? Again, this is a 1-2 week thing to help Hill and the Cubs long-term. They see his potential and talent which is why they're taking these unusual steps.