davell

I'm sure this will be great for Ross.

I know there's been quite a few changes to the CBA in the past few years, but historically speaking, I don't think tank+draft is measurably more effective than other methods of building a championship team. And you seem to think it is. I get your points about timing and stuff, but I think our operating the relative merits of the two options to build. In MOST cases, I agree completely. I'd usually veer towards keep building, than rebuilding. The timing, our current roster, and the current landscape in the NBA push me to rebuild, in this exact case.

Love that we saved a bit on Little. Wasn't really expecting that.

Nah, I'm prepared to wait years lol. I know it won't be easy. I'm just thinking getting a head start on it is a good idea, since we'll be there soon enough anyway.

Maybe the .500 part is me thinking that's what we were heading into last year and you wanting to keep things in place. I think you thought we'd be better last year than what we were. GarPax threw a bunch of horsefeathers against the wall and nothing stuck. I actually morbidly enjoyed a bit of last season, because I like Wade. But, I'd have moved Jimmy last year myself. Anyway, none of this horsefeathers matters. What DOES matter is how you turn this team from .500 to a 55 win team.....Its not happening this off season. Then you're putting your eggs into the Lebron class, where I'm comfortable saying we'll strike out. I get that you're not thinking we will.....We just disagree. With our lead player, our FO, our location, I think moving up 15ish wins is a hell of a lot harder than what I think you must see it as.

i get where you're coming from with a lot of this. i just don't agree that it is a clear cut better option toward reaching true title contention nor do i think it's absolutely a better path toward being very good. it is definitely a better path toward being very bad, though. the "nobody wants to play here" narrative is so vastly overstated good players have and will come here. we've had great players almost come here. yeah, yeah, "almost doesn't count," but there is no doubt in my mind those guys had serious interest. chicago isn't horsefeathering oklahoma city and players aren't not coming here because jordan and pippen didn't like jerry krause. i mean, hell, this organization is loyal to its ex players to a fault. in the end, though, they can only pick one team. tracy mcgrady picked orlando (pretty sure he since stated he regretted that). if miami couldn't make the cap thing happen, who knows where lebron ends up. take what you will about what wade said after signing here, but he has indicated there was talk of making the 2010 move happen here. carmelo wound up (thankfully, in retrospect) deciding that NY and more money was more attractive. i do think that awkward goofy ass gar forman probably doesn't help us, nor does the clown show coach we have, but hoiberg can be fired, and butler has been making connections as his stature has grown in the league. Again, my main point though, is time frame....We're not going to be much improved, if at all, this upcoming season, if we keep Jimmy. I know you know that. Do you honestly trust that Jimmy won't get frustrated and just say horsefeathers it? He's petulant as it is. He's had issues with Thibs and Hoiberg already. I can already see him asking to be dealt next year, where you'll get less than now....Especially when the FO strikes out in FA on Lebrons class.....Or he plays out the year and leaves us with nothing. I'd go as far as to say I EXPECT one of these scenarios, to him even staying here longterm. But again, if he DOES stay, his contract and declining skills aren't going to help land us anything elite either. Can they add more Boozer level FA? Sure. They probably will. But, that's not getting you anywhere. I get that there's only a very select few teams going into a year thinking title.....I realize how hard it is to become one of them. But, I think there's a much better chance of it coming from a rebuild, than it does from building with Jimmy. And that's what I'm interested in. There's no joy watching a 45, even 50 win team, on my end, if I can't see light at the end of the tunnel. I'd much rather dream on the future and have hope, than be boxed in. You've stated you are fine with watching average teams, not wanting to endure the 15 win seasons again..... I think you're going to endure them. Not because of a trade. But because he'll leave in 2 years. And then you're starting from scratch, instead of having a few assets. To me, keeping him puts everything into the Lebron FA class....You confident in these idiots to accomplish anything? I'm certainly not. And if they fail, are you confident Jimmy sticks it out? I'm certainly not. And then, if he does.....Are you confident he's elite into his 30's? I'm certainly not.

I'll try. But, we aren't going to agree. I prefer any chance at being great over mediocrity. You've said you'd prefer a .500 team to seeing some 15 win years. Its about looking forward obviously. You don't need me to tell you that. I'm not going to use true math, because I don't think its as easy as looking at 10-15 years worth of picks and deciding the next time period is going to produce the same..... With the new CBA, it makes it very hard to see a lot of major FA leaving their original franchise, before their true primes are over. You've got groups of players jumping into super teams. That's how you're going to win now The city of Chicago isn't going to help, in that aspect. It never has in basketball. So, you're left with Jimmy. Who's a top 15ish player in the league. Sorry, he's not good enough to get guys coming to him. He's going to have to follow someone else around. He'll realize this in 2 seasons too. And leave this .500ish team for greener pastures. And then, you're stuck with this same rebuild, minus ANY assets to start out with..... Or....You resign a 30 year old to a 200 mill contract and watch him decline, while not ever being able to get a true 2nd guy into town, much less a third, and you watch absolute mediocrity turn into sub .500 and this lasts for his entire next 7 years with a declining situation you're still going to have to dig out of after all of that.... Can you somehow add the players thru FA, to build WITH Jimmy? Sure. But, there's probably a lesser chance of that happening than the Bulls rebuilding and winning a title inside 7 years...... Why? Because no one wants to play here. Its just true. This organization has a horrible rep inside NBA circles. And its not going to be helped by Jimmy recruiting.....He's just not good enough. So, what're the options, if you tank? You're creating assets. You're getting tradable pieces. Outside of Jimmy, we don't have that. If you wanted to, you could trade Jimmy, suck for 2 years, and have enough assets to go back into the deep end of the pool, if you truly wanted to..... You'd have what you got for him, two years of high picks not related to him, and future picks that are probably extremely high too....That alone could net you a couple of very high end pieces and you'd have cap room and maybe even a few other assets you developed during those years, that are capable players of some semblance.... Does that mean you can't totally whiff on picks? Sure. But, its hard to completely whiff during that small amount of time too. You can just do a quick reset and see if the landscape allows for more than what it does currently. To me, that's rushing things, most likely. But, you can cash your chips in at any stage and go for it again. Or you can develop your guys and slow play things obviously. But, the point is creating assets. You're sitting here with ONE right now. And no real cap space either. Yeah, you'll suck if you trade him. But, you'll quickly have more assets than what you've got now. And flexibility on top of that. That leads to real possibilities. I'll take those small chances of being great, over being average every day of the week. And if you keep Jimmy, that's what you are. And in two years, he's going to leave and you're in WORSE shape than you are currently, or you're Jim Hendry 2009 era, trying to cobble out a contender, with no elite talent and no real money to spend, for Jimmy's entire next deal.

Holy horsefeathers. I think you just called the people wanting to blow it up meatballs. You're one of my favorite guys here. But, your basketball views are evidently irreparable.

Honestly, I'm not very high on Randle. Don't think most of the league is either. I think Butler probably garners value of 2 and Randle, without giving up 16 and certainly without having to take on Deng's deal. Plus, in all honesty, I'd hope the Bulls would get multiple picks out of a Butler move. Even if its not the 2. Not sure what picks the Lakers have left to move, but odds are they're all late rounders....... I WANT to trade Jimmy. But, it'd take 2, Randle, a pair of future 1sts, and Nance to get him for me to trade him to the Lakers. I much prefer what I could get from the Celtics, Suns, and even TWolves, to what the Lakers can offer.

And what are the odds of turning into a championship contender over this stretch? You'll get your wish. Our idiots will keep him. And you can find ways to get excited over being in NBA hell for the next 7 years he's here, plus the time after that, that it takes to get back towards the playoffs. Bulls are the Mariners.

http://www.thecubreporter.com/06212017/brett-anderson-shines-under-lights-azl-cubs-unload-azl-giants#more Albertos got in the way of a no look throw by the catcher to second on a wild pitch and was hit on the elbow or forearm. He left the game soon afterwards. I hope like hell he's not going to miss much time, if any.

1) Cleveland doesn't have the trade pieces 2) Why does this statement matter? 3) Our horsefeathering FO is going to listen to him and not trade him anywhere, because they are the horsefeathering worst.

FWIW, according to a blog called The Clemson Insider, Meredith has confirmed he will attend Clemson. CCDT now has him marked in orange. Nothing set in stone yet obviously. That leaves Prep RHP Hunter Ruth as the highest BA ranked prospect (135) yet to communicate his intentions to sign. Perhaps he's the back up plan to Estrada. Honestly, it probably means Estrada has agreed to a number. But, I remember a quote from Meredith saying if the Cubs met his number on the last day, he'd drop what he's doing and sign. No idea how often kids have enrolled and then went pro a few weeks later.....But, I could see it happening here. As for Ruth, I really liked him going into the draft. Perhaps there's a shot he'd rather rehab with a professional team than thru his college? Very wishful thinking on my end, because you'd figure he'd have been an early round pick, if that was the case.....But yeah, he definitely COULD be the Estrada backup plan. I'd be a bit surprised though if his number isn't higher than Meredith's though. In the end, I'm just wanting to see some numbers on our guys, so we can get a slightly better idea of what's going to happen.

Why would they though? Just wait til next year and sign him unless the asking price is so low. I think Pacers will trade PG, just to another team. In their case, I truly think they need him, in order to have a shot at other FA next year. To me, they need to guard against him winding up in Boston or wherever and falling in love and resigning with that team.

Personally, I don't think any of the Bulls guys are reliable. I have a hard time thinking that didn't get leaked from the Celtics side.....But who knows? Ainge may be playing with our guys, just for fun. I'm legitimately thinking this is like Theo trying to trade with Dave Stewart.

It really becomes clear how little I know about he NBA when things like this happen and I literally have no idea what part is the WTF. Because the Lakers would be insane to pull the trigger. They just gave Mosgov a huge deal last year, now they're trading a 2nd overall pick with him, for an expiring. I know Russell has warts, but there had to be an easier way to get cap space than THAT. Russell can still be extremely good.

WTF?????

Serious LOL at Kyrie playing for the Bulls. I'm pulling for the Lakers to trade for George, by the way. My guess is George IS dealt, prior to the draft. What dampers my excitement on a Butler trade, is that the Bulls haven't yet worked out any top 10 draft picks, outside of Fox. There were rumors yesterday though, at least. But, I don't think they'd make a deal if they've not even worked these guys out. Guess there's a chance they did and it didn't make it onto the radar.

Zagunis hit one too.

If it were much cheaper, why would Tampa even do it? A two player deal is probably a bad example of the concept. What I'm driving at is that despite everyone's best efforts, trades aren't a matter of swapping two dimes and a nickel to get a quarter, since no one values the coins exactly the same way. Given that truth, the more value you add to a trade, the higher the chance of inequity since there are more potential mismatches in valuation. OK, I see what your saying. The larger deals though, where the "selling off" team is legitimately giving up more than one actually good piece, have to be rare, though. Right? I can conceivably see where a selling team is so in love with one or even two pieces from the buying team, they could fall into that type of trap. It'd probably take a very specific scenario and all, where the competing teams just don't have the same caliber of headliner.

I would prefer to trade Eloy to Schwarber. Even if it was Schwarber, I probably wouldn't target an OF though, you're still looking at 3 spots to fill and Zobrist, Baez, Happ, Almora, and Jay to fill them. If you're going for SP+ from the Rays, you might as well go for broke and try to get Colome. I wonder if there's any indicator at how trade costs scale with increasing value. Like if you keep asking for more stuff, is there a natural discount that you end up with because it's too hard to properly counter that much value? Or maybe more succinctly stated, is trading for Archer and Colome much cheaper than separate trades for Archer and Colome? If it were much cheaper, why would Tampa even do it?

If he's the shitty veteran mentor type guy we have to try to show respectability, after trading Jimmy....I'm completely OK with it. If he's the piece we add to try and build with Jimmy.....LOLOLOL, I certainly wouldn't be surprised.

I'd expect the package mentioned, with Eloy or Schwarber involved, would bring back Archer, if they were inclined to sell. I don't think it'd get you Souza or Dickerson on top of Archer though. There's way too many teams in need of starting pitching. Its going to take a solid second piece, like Cease, plus the rest, to even get Archer alone.

Passan breaks his fair share of stuff. I'd do this, without much hesitation and I LOVE Eloy. The odds of Tampa selling him this year seems miniscule, at best. They'll probably deal Cobb, even if they stay in the race. But trading Archer, or even Odorizzi, is likely a death blow to their already pathetic attendance, by trading them away while in a playoff race. Or even leading it, which they currently are in the second WC spot.