davell

What was ridiculous about what I was saying? The notion that you're letting a small sample of playoff games, in which we faced Strasburg x2, Kershaw x2, Darvish, Scherzer, Rich Hill and Jansen a bunch cloud your judgment that somehow our offense is bad and it's the hitting coaches fault. The offense sucked, but it was against very good pitchers who make offense look sucky more times than not. There's been plenty of guys who've shown real growth under Mallee this year and his whole time here and a lot of the underperforming this year can be attributed to non Mallee things like Injuries, aging and just generally still having a lot of guys learning on the job. We still had one of the best offenses in baseball this year. Never mind, I guess TT is talking to multiple people.

I see where he's probably coming from. I THINK anyway. He may be looking at Russell and Schwarber struggling, Heyward and Zobrist too.....The rest just seemed to do what's expected..... To that, I'd say the young guys are just that. They're young. Either of those 2 could make a huge leap next year. Zobrist is getting old. He may or may not bounce back. Heyward? Eh, he's just a bad deal at this point. At any rate, if things go 100% as expected, we'd have the best offense in baseball. The talent is there for it. But, things never go completely as planned either. Just be happy that we've got an elite offense. It'll be more elite some years than others. But, I doubt Mailee or anyone else is going to truly do much to change the path of how its going to go, in am honesty.

This is a weak ass class. That much is for certain. We need at least one Starting Pitcher, with some depth as well. The depth will be easy to find. The replacement for Jake? Not so much. Here are the options for this off season via Free Agency...... Jake Arrieta- 32 168.1, 8.71/2.94, 3.53/4.16/4.11, 45.1%GB I'd like to bring him back, but not at the 5/125 or whatever it is he'll wind up getting on the open market. I think 5/125 is a bad idea, and he may get more than that. I can't see it working out well for whoever signs him, but, that's just pitching...... Andrew Cashner-31 166.2, 4.64/3.46, 3.40/4.61/5.30, 48.6%GB He's rumored to be getting a QO. If that doesn't tell you how bad this market is, I don't know what will. In no way, shape, or form do I think we'd consider him. Tyler Chatwood-28 147.2, 7.31/4.69, 4.69/4.94/4.27, 58.1%GB Well, Chatwood is young, at least. He's a big GB guy and his road splits are much better than his home splits. He'd be a very nice secondary addition, but I figure he's going to find good money himself. Jhoulys Chacin-30 180.1, 7.64/3.59, 3.89/4.26/4.54, 49.1%GB He's had some decent seasons, but he's had some clunkers too. I think he's had character concerns in the past, can't remember for sure. At any rate, he'd be a solid depth addition, if he's cheap enough. Alex Cobb-30 179.1, 6.42/2.21, 3.66/4.16/4.24, 47.8%GB Cobb is one of the better options, in my mind. He's a pretty solid mid rotation guy, but we'd need to give him 3-4 years probably. Is he worth 4/64? I doubt it. But, it may be a better contract than 5/125 on Jake, I guess. Yu Darvish-31 186.2, 10.08/2.80, 3.86/3.83/3.65 40.7%GB He's the prize. And if you get him, its at least been rumored, you get Ohtani with him. He supposedly doesn't like cold weather and I think only cold weather teams were on his NT list?(could be imagining this) At any rate, I'm not sure he's worth more than Jake. But, I'd gladly give him more if it enhanced the shot at Ohtani. Jaime Garcia-31, 157, 7.39/3.67, 4.41/4.25/4.18 54.8%GB Not a bad option here either, but will likely command a solid monetary outlay, for back end production. Personally, I doubt we give more than one starter and one pen arm multi year deals. He's in the mix of possibilities though. Lance Lynn-31, 186.1, 7.39/3.67, 3.43/4.82/4.75, 44.0%GB Rumored to get between 80-100 mill. WTF? No way in hell would I go that route. If the market passes him by laughing and he's out there in January.....I'd probably be OK at 3/45 or so. Masahiro Tanaka-29, 178.1, 9.79/2.07, 4.74/4.34/3.44, 49.2%GB I'm assuming he'll opt out of 3/67 in this market. But, he seems happy in NY, so he could stay there without truly hitting the market. He's had arm concerns, so while he's a solid option, especially in this group.....He still gives lots of pause, not to mention he's not even an option unless he opts out. He'd be 3rd behind Darvish and Jake, if he does though. Jason Vargas-35, 179.2, 6.71/2.91, 4.16/4.67/4.94, 40.3%GB Innings eater that lost serious steam over the course of the season. Not exciting on any level, but is a decent 5th starter. If we don't think Monty is that guy anyway. These guys are available too, but they're either hurt or have other flaws.....Still, the scrap heap can be useful and my guess is we'll use it......These guys will all get one year deals, probably with incentives. Chris Tillman-30 93, 6.10/4.94, 7.84/6.97/5.87, 39.5%GB Holy horsefeathers, he was rancid. Can Bosio fix him? He was 172, 7.33/3.45, 3.77/4.23/4.54, 41.2%GB in 2016. The FB velo dropped a MPH, but the rest of his pitches were right in line with his norm. He kind of intrigues me, as a buy very low guy. But, you have to compete with teams that conceivably could guarantee him a spot. Wade Miley-31 157.1, 8.12/5.32, 5.61/5.27/4.66, 50.3%GB What do the damn Orioles do to their pitching? 5.32 BB/9? He hadn't been above 3.35 since 2011 lol. Again, I'd be fine with giving him a shot at the 5th spot. Looking deeper into the scrap heap, I'm just not motivated lol. There's a bunch of guys that'll get major league deals, with incentives..... Matt Garza, probably burned bridges with us. CC Sabathia doesn't seem like he'd leave NY. We've had Brett Anderson and we saw.....Trevor Cahill or Scott Feldman The Sequel? Eh, at least they're probably worth a swing role looksy. Doug Fister or Miguel Gonzalez? I say no. Yovani Gallardo and Jeremy Hellickson will find work somehow. Ubaldo seems borderline intriguing as a pen option. But no way as a starter. And then there's Tyson Ross.....We "missed out" last year on him. He'd be much cheaper, probably non guaranteed, at this point. For that alone, he's a solid flyer to try. I'll add the foreign guys as they become known. Alain Tamayo is a Cuban that SUPPOSEDLYT has 2/3 upside. If so, he's got to be near the top of this entire group. That said, we know the hype train on some of these guys is insane. Miles Mikolas is a guy returning from some decent Japan years. And then there's that guy that plays both ways that is easily first on this list, if he gets posted......

I'd love to get Yelich, but I'd think that they'll get rid of Stanton, Ozuna, attach a Volquez with Ozuna, and get to 90 or whatever......Yelich has SUCH a team friendly deal that I'd guess they figure they'll be competing towards the end of it. Love the ideas though, if its possible, I'd be all-in.

TT, I saw your post and I took it as a race, to see who gets this boring ass thread up first. Anyway, we're going to head into 2018 with Wilson, Edwards, Strop, and that's it, as far as certainties go. Montgomery? My guess is he's in the rotation. If he struggles, he'll wind up back in the pen. Maples? Personally, I think he's a big contributor next year. But, Theo made comments today about our pen walking too many people, so Maples definitely has his work cut out for him, in that respect. I'll put Butler here as an option too, as he's out of options and I can see him in Monty's role possibly. Rob Z could also wind up in that roe or possibly in just a regular pen role. We've got Carasiti as a possibility and this Farrell guy too. We also have Rondon and Grimm that are possibly going to be non tendered. Wouldn't surprise me if either is back or if either is gone. At any rate, my guess is we'll add 2-3 guys to the pen. One very likely thru a veteran minor league deal or split contract. Will we bring back Davis or Duensing? No idea. My head tells me that we'll try to find the next Duensing type value thru a split deal, instead of giving him 2/9 or even 1/5. Just a guess. Davis? I gotta say, as much as I love the guy, I don't see our FO giving a 4 year deal to ANY bullpen arm. If he'd take a larger 2-3 AAV? I can see it. Again, just a guess, but I think we'll add a Starting Pitcher on a multi year deal and one pen arm, on the same. But, I doubt they go too far this off season, with Harper and Co on the horizon a year from now...... Right Handers that are options..... Bud Norris (62, 10.74/3.92, 4.21/3.90/3.66) had a solid enough year, but probably doesn't have the control needed for what we're looking for. Tommy Hunter(58.2, 9.82/2.15, 2.61/3.07/3.29) had a damn good year and has been acquired once by this FO already. Pat Neshek (62.1, 9.96/0.97, 1.59/1.86/3.26) is a bit older at 37, but seems to be exactly what this FO is looking for. David Hernandez (55, 8.51/1.47, 3.11/2.76/3.79) has really improved his control and I guess he fits what we'll look at too. Matt Albers (61, 9.30/2.51, 1.62/3.40/3.41) had a great year and could be on the radar. Tyler Clippard(60.1, 10.74/4.62, 4.77/4.57/4.71)is a veteran one year option. Not coming off much of a year, he could be cheap and a bounce back guy. Steve Cishek(44.2, 8.26/2.82, 2.01/3.34/3.66)had a solid year, doesn't walk too many, and will get a multi year deal. I'd say he's on the radar. Luke Gregerson (61, 10.33/2.95, 4.57/4.62/3.45)seems like a bounce back type too. Has history with this FO in SD. Loss of velo is a concern, but a one year deal on this guy seems a possibility to me. Greg Holland(57.1, 10.99/4.08, 3.61/3.72/4.05) declined his option and wants to get paid. I guess he's a possibility, but this doesn't seem like our best bet. I'd guess we just keep Davis, if we spend big. Brandon Kintzler(71.1, 4.92/2.02, 3.03/3.77/4.36) has had 2 solid years in a row and doesn't walk guys. Seems like a guy we'd be interested in, just not sure if we'd give him 3 years, which he'll probably get. Brandon Morrow (43.2, 10.31/1.85, 2.06/1.55/2.94) has been lights out this year. Can he be trusted going forward? No idea. Juan Nicasio (72.1, 8.96/2.49, 2.61/2.98/3.63) was claimed by us already, so we'll have interest in him. Seung Hwan Oh(59.1, 8.19/2.28, 4.10/4.44/5.04) had a down year compared to last year, but he's solid. Addison Reed (76, 9.00/1.78, 2.84/3.67/3.85) is really good. I could see us adding him as a guy that competes with Wilson, CJ, and someone else to be the closer. Bryan Shaw (76.2,8.57/2.58, 3.52/2.96/3.20) is the guy I think I'd like to add the most. Him AND Reed would be super nice, but pretty expensive for pen additions. Anthony Swarzak (77.1, 10.59/2.56, 2.33/2.74/3.48) is what? Is he for real? I'm guessing the FO will figure that out. Joe Smith (54, 11.83/1.67, 3.33/2.10/2.39)brings the funk that Maddon likes and is coming off a good year. One year would be OK by me, but he may get a multi year deal..... Lefties Francisco Liriano (97, 7.89/4.92, 5.66/4.64/5.04) doesn't seem like a fit, but as a swing guy, I guess he'd garner a look? Jake McGee (57.1, 9.10/2.51, 3.61/2.93/3.95)bounced back, has history with Joe.....I'd be in favor of adding him. Mike Minor(77.2, 10.20/2.55, 2.55/2.62/3.59) came out of nowhere to be damn good. Has pedigree and an injury history. Boom or bust addition. Tony Watson (66.2, 7.16/2.70, 3.38/4.45/4.29)had a down year but looked solid late. He'd be a nice one year addition. Fernando Abad (43.2, 7.63/2.89, 3.30/3.68/4.37)is your typical lefty that'll get a major league deal. He's decent, nothing more..... Boone Logan(21, 12.00/3.86, 4.71/3.16/3.11)is coming off a shoulder injury and walks a decent amount of guys, but he's been of interest to us, in the past. I'll add much more to this later, will put stats in for these guys and will glance to add more players too, but just wanted to get the thread up. I can see us trading for a guy, but until rumors of who may be out they're, I'm not going to warrant many guesses on that front..... In parentheses, I'm adding IP, then K/9 and BB/9, then ERA/FIP/xFIP. And by going thru these guys, its apparent that there's plenty of help out there. They're may only be Davis that's truly considered elite, but who knows how much longer he'd hold that label himself. I want to keep him, but there's enough out there to really enhance the pen quite a bit.

How'd I know who started this one?

I'd be shocked if Javy gets dealt. The FO values his versatility a ton and its a great thing that he's a capable SS. Especially considering Russell still has his DV inquiry going, on top of missing lots of time to injury this year. I'm not sure we'll trade any of the youngsters, but if we do, I'd figure it comes from Almora, Schwarber, or Happ. But, I'm not really thinking we trade for a starting pitcher this off season. I doubt we move any of the young position players and wait until the trade deadline, to see if we've had prospects develop that can basically net the same caliber of pitcher.

https://twitter.com/jonahkeri/status/920838938939576321

True talent level gap from the Cubs to the Cards is pretty enormous. They can look at the downside of what some Cub players had this year, but aren't looking at their own team in the same way. The talent gap is gigantic and their system, while very good, isn't enough to bridge that gap, especially given the money we've got available to spend. Its kind of comical, they're just not under the realization that we just won 92 in an unmotivated year and they were barely in our rear view, with them fighting and clawing, and trying their Cardinal Wayiest that they can muster. But, that's what fans do. They believe. Even when numbers show them a completely different story, they still believe. And when they get pounded into submission again the next few years, they'll continue to do the same, just with a little less hope, because, deep down......They know they're actually wrong.

That's one way to win the 4 spot, I guess.

He evidently told Sharma that Davis was on a very strict pitch count and it was predetermined he'd only have been used if the Cubs had the lead. I mean.....If you determine he can pitch, then only letting him pitch with a lead is horsefeathering stupid.

Supposedly, they're not expecting to trade him. If a 4th could get him, I'd pull the trigger.

Off-field troubles. Free agent after the year, never going to happen. Crap, didn't realize he's a FA. The off-field stuff was just weed, right? If its not just that, my opinion would have changed on that end too.

Martavis Bryant has evidently requested to be traded from the Steelers. Get it done, Pace.

They asked Joe about whether he expects to see him activated and Maddon smiled and said "We'll see".

Trubisky has plenty of talent to become an elite QB. He needs a completely new group of receivers and a new coaching staff. Adding those things won't guarantee him becoming great obviously, but he's flashed enough skills to where he's got the chance anyway, with proper development. Honestly, its about all you can ask for, when taking a QB and not having those things in place around him.

It won't happen, but please fire Fox immediately.

I keep picturing Jon Voit in Varsity Blues walking out of the locker room for some reason.

I honestly didn't think Fox would have me smiling longingly at Lovie.

The actual 2018 number is 197 and it jumps to 205 or 206 in 2019. But, there are things included in that number that we don't have an exact accounting of. Like TT and Splinter said, its probably safe to assume mid 170's, for where our payroll needs to be, in order to stay under currently. We went over in 2016, definitely seems like we've stayed under for 2017 though. My guess is we'll stay under for 2018, before being completely fine going over in 2019. There's lots of rules involved with it, going over by a bit is FAR less costly than obliterating it, which I don't see us ever doing. Not sure I see ANYONE doing that anymore actually.

It was just broached by TT and UK in the minor league forum, talking about having money for a serious run at Harper......This wasn't directly mentioned there, but its worth talking about, with possibilities of extensions to anyone. KB 8.9 (I was thinking a bit higher) Rondon 6.2 (non tender candidate) Hendricks 4.9 Leonys Martin 4.9 (non tender) Wilson 4.3 Grimm 2.4 (non tender candidate?) Russell 2.3(would figure a bit higher) La Stella 1.0 That's 30 mill on the nose, not counting Martin. We've got 94.3 committed to the rest of the team, not counting auto renewals.....That includes the following players...... Rizzo, Zobrist, Heyward, Lester, Quintana, Strop Setting up auto renewals for..... Contreras, Baez, Happ, Schwarber, Almora, Montgomery, Edwards Plenty of others that may factor in, like Caratini, Maples, Butler, etc.... Anyway, we'd be around 124, plus renewals, placing us under 130. Needs? Starting Pitcher, 6th Starter/Swing Type, 2-3 Pen Arms(Including a Closer type), backup Catcher, maybe a veteran 4th OF(Like Jay) Should be easy to stay under the LT, before heading over it next year, for Harper, if we get lucky. Anyway, lots of flexibility this off-season, I'd expect a decent amount of changes, especially dependent on how things finish up in the playoffs.

I figure Alzolay probably gets dealt, before he winds up in the pen. I'll be surprised if he's still in our organization by the next trade deadline myself. I figure we'll add 1/2 depth starting pitchers in the Butler mode over the off season and figure that Butler himself takes on Monty's swing role, since he can't go back down.(a bad spring and he's likely DFA'd though) I think Tseng probably is our 7th or 8th guy next year and I don't see him being used out of the pen regularly yet. I see Carasiti getting some innings next year, maybe like Pena. I think Maples is a fulltime major leaguer next year personally. I can see Rob Z getting innings next year, but he's not guaranteed to still be on the 40 man either, as far as I'm concerned. Mills will likely still be tried as a starter, in my opinion, and doesn't really have the stuff to be special out of the pen anyway. The rest of the AAA guys mentioned, I just don't see them making the majors. Clifton is intriguing out of the pen, Underwood too, in my mind. Don't think either makes their major league debut in 2018 though. Araujo and Stinnett, particularly Araujo, are intriguing enough. Araujo would be my sleeper to pitch in the majors at some point in 2018. Mekkes obviously has everyone's attention, he's got a shot to move quickly, like Maples did this year, even with control issues. de la Cruz probably SHOULD be put in the pen. If so, he could move extremely quick too. I figure Rucker, Robinson, and Hatch all stick as starters next year, because they're more valuable to us in that role currently. If I failed to mention any others, its because I just don't see them being real factors.

I deserve that. But, I'm asking it, kind of wondering if Nat fans will view this the same as we did 2003? Just should have asked it that way, I guess lol.

If that game had happened prior to last year and we were on the losing end of it, how does it compare to 2003?