davell

Outside of Philly, every team that's a true contender for him(I honestly don't think Atlanta will be), will be into the Luxury Tax, in signing him...... Making it even more money than what you're just paying him obviously..... He's 26. And I'd be willing to bet that teams figure the DH WILL be in the NL, in one of the next 2 CBA's...... Which are 3 and 8 years out. So, I can see teams reasoning it out, that it's easier to go the longer term, 12-14 years, because his hitting skill set should age well to begin with...... Philly may very well offer him 10/330 or 10/350....... But, I think the other teams are going to offer 12-14 year deals, that are in the 360-400 range....... It lowers their tax number, it gives them at least a bit more money to spend immediately, and they're able to plan for him being a bad contract, during those 36-40 years too...... But, it can at least be reasoned he'll be a very effective DH,even during those years too.

Honestly, I suspect any team other than Philly to give Bryce enough years to where he's under 30 for the tax.

275 means they're paying over 300. I've been of the mindset that's where we're headed..... But, this news definitely puts at least a serious question as to whether that's realistic.

Don't even know where to start with questions.....

I'd add Vasto, just because we don't have many teams he didn't clear. In all honesty, I kind of like Gore being around lol.

JFC, those are phenomenal.

Bulls heading to OT. Wendell with 23/6/5.......

The Cubs got 300k added to their pool this season, because of nullifying the deal.

Damn, that's quick.

I'm going to put this here, because it's very relevant to how we approach the offseason...... This is the EXACT way that the Luxury Tax works. Confirmed by Jeff Todd, of MLBTR...... Tax begins at 206 in 2019, 208 in 2020, and 210 in 2021. Here's the example I'll use, with us as a 1st time offender for 2019, and he hitting a 260 million payroll..... You're taxed, as follows..... 206-226 million-20% tax=4 million 226-246 million-20% tax, plus 12% surtax=6.4 million 246-260 million-20% tax, plus 42.5% surtax=8.75 million Total tax paid is 19.15 million, on top of the payroll. If you stay at that same payroll the following year(2020) 208-228 million-30% tax=6 million 228-248 million-30% tax, plus 12% surcharge= 8.4 million 248-260 million-30% tax, plus 42.5% surcharge=8.7 million Total tax paid is 23.1 million, on top of payroll For 2021, same scenario.... 210-230 million-50% tax=10 million 230-250 million-50% tax, plus 12% surcharge=12.4 million 250-260 million=50% tax, plus 42.5% surcharge=18.5 million Total tax paid is 40.9 million over the payroll. Studying this closely, I think that if you get Bryce or Manny, you're pretty much filling in with one year options, to go with them. But, I think even 275 million is possible, as long as you go that route...... Take one true shot. If it works, maybe you even talk yourself into eating the top tax a second time. But, I'd guess the idea is you've got one year to develop guys and get yourself back under the top end. If not even trying to get back under the second part too. I think you could pair Bryce with the best one year pen arm, maybe even two of them, that you could find though...... Keep Hamels on a one deal, add Andrew Miller and one of Cody Allen or Kelvin Herrera, and get Bryce on an extremely long term deal, to help future LT seasons.......

Oh. My. God. Lololololololol

I think they like Andrus. He's got another opt out next year too though, maybe they'd want to try and see if they could net something positive on him? He's just one year removed from that type of season..... My guess is it'll take more than just poor contracts to get him....... If for no other reason, than I doubt people look at his deal as a bad contract. Not after one bad season anyway...... If you're sending Chatwood, my guess is you'd need to send them Alzolay and maybe even Bote too, just to get them to absorb Chatwood. Might be able to include Russell, instead of Bote, dependent upon whether or not they think he'll straighten himself out.

Wouldn't in-season call ups be a subset of the 40 man guys? Or am I misunderstanding you? Nah, those guys are 150k or so, as long as they're in the minors. But, once they get brought up, they're getting prorated major league salary. I've seen guys say it usually winds up costing teams 2-3 mill, over the course of the year. More, if there are lots of injuries.

Figure in 2.25 mill for guys on the 40 Man. Plus, likely an extra 2-3 mill(at least) for in season call ups.

You're not getting 2nds for them. My honest guess is Howard gets you a 5th. Doubt Floyd even gets that. There were literally articles this past week saying we won't be able to justify picking up his option year.

No idea where to put this, if it even goes in Transactions or not..... But I think teams are going to start trying guys out in this role more often, after the [expletive] racist Brewer and even seeing teams using it more often in the postseason....... Personally, I love the idea. The question I've got is if Maddon can be trusted to use a guy in this role correctly. Let's assume they figure this part out somehow..... I think it fits with treating each game more seriously too. And while you're using this guy for over an inning, maybe over 2, you're also saving others at the same time obviously. I figure this guy is a once a series type basically. And probably a guy we can get 75-100 innings out of. So, he's got to be good, is the first thing lol. Might as well check out our own roster first, to see if we can unearth one...... Do we have a guy on the roster or in the system to try in this role? Major League Options Chatwood- I mean, he's got good stuff. If the control suddenly goes back to normal(bad, not shitty), maybe he's an option? Because we've got 5 starters. If healthy, we've got Lester, Quintana, Hendricks, Darvish, and Hamels. Smyly- This is the guy I think is our best shot to fill this role, as far as guys expected to be on our Opening Day roster. But, I'm assuming he adds at least a bit of velo by being used this way...... Montgomery- Probably a long shot? He's honestly seemed better as a starter than out of the pen, to me. But, if we try this role, I guess we've got to try him out in it..... Minor League Options Alzolay- They've acted like he's pretty close to being ready. If that's true, the role is perfect for him. Gets him a decent amount of innings and eases him into the majors. He's definitely got the stuff to fill the role too. He may be a dark horse candidate, but he's my personal favorite in-house option....... Webster- He's got nasty stuff, this role seems like it could be a fit for him too. Hes used to starters innings, I figure he'd get consideration. In fact, I like him more than anyone outside of Alzolay, for the role..... The Best Option We're Familiar With....... Gotta be Chavez, right? I have questions as to whether or not he can keep up what he did in 2018 obviously. But, he's got to be brought back and given a chance at this role, right? If so, then he becomes our odds on favorite to fill it....... Trade Options Raisel Iglesias- Not sure if Cincy, who thinks they're opening their window, would deal him inside the division..... Not sure if we'd deal Schwarber or Happ, guys with Cincy ties, to them either....... A bunch of Atlanta youngsters- A place where Schwarber or Happ COULD be dealt to. And a guy like Max Tried or Touki Toussaint, in particular, seem like great fits for this role, to me. Free Agents Nathan Eovaldi- Yeah, he's going to cost a bunch. Especially for a role like this. He may just want to start anyway. But, he could be a legit stud in this type of role too. But, can we afford to give him 4/60 or whatever it takes to get him?(only asking because I'm expecting Bryce, a SS or UT guy, and one more pen guy) But, he's got crazy good stuff and I think he could be as good as anyone, in this role. Even the Milwaukee horsefeathers. Tyson Ross- Worth a shot? Might keep him healthier. He's always had good stuff, maybe in a role like this, he adds back some velo he's lost over the injury history? If we don't bring back Chavez and Eovaldi is too expensive, I kind of like trying this with him...... Andrew Miller- He's signing a short term deal. MAYBE he's got one more year in him? I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with him, but every damn FA I think this role fits, has plenty of injury history(other than maybe Chavez? Don't even know lol) Anyway, anyone got any other options for the role? Or if you think there's no chance we go down this path yet?

What I meant by Asik, Lopez, and Parker- Was that each salary represented opportunity to take on bad money. I get that only one team did it last off season, which is why I was ok adding Parker. If there's no market, there's no market. Supposedly they had picks included in bad contract offers on Lopez last deadline. And supposedly the Kings have sifted thru a few things currently they've yet to pull the trigger on, with their current space. Anyway, time to watch Hutchison get a start.

I appreciate the thoroughness. For the life of me though, I fail to understand how you don't see that its a horrible look to not even work out Lauri. It IS lucky they hit on him. And its lazy as to how they did it. Same with promising Hutchison and not working out guys for the last month prior to the draft. Same with leaving the draft and not even LOOKING for 2nds. Saying no one looked good enough for them to consider, as if they're too good for it lol. Like I've said, I understand the Jabari move THIS year. But, they could have used that space last year possibly. Or maybe they could have used Asik in a move like that. Or Lopez later this year.... No idea. High bar of success? Yeah, you're a major market team. You should expect to land some elite guy at some point. They couldn't even do it when they had Rose and Noah. Hell, they wouldn't even trade Deng in a move for Kobe. And you could have talked to Kobe and made him understand they'd get him someone else, if he was truly worried about Deng not being there...... And no, Boozer or Ben Wallace aren't elite, before you bring them up. And talk to me about what separates winners from losers when the Bulls go out this next off-season and give 2-3 guys 10-12 mill apiece and become yet another 45ish win incarnation, because they've got holes to fill. Instead of maybe finding some of those guys thru the addition of the extra picks they could have accumulated. And yeah, I do like this core. But, I'm looking forward and seeing this is how they finish off the team..... And losing their max space because they wind up spending it on role players...... Again, I don't want moves just for making moves sake. But, you've definitely got opportunities to add 2nds every year. Sometimes you've got opportunities to buy late 1sts. Other teams do these things. The cap space stuff? Lets see what happens. But, I will be shocked if they use the space for bad contracts instead of on role players going forward.

Again, they literally didn't even work Lauri out. Hitting on him is lucky. THAT type of trade. They winged it. It worked. This is about how they're handling this rebuild. Not 15 years of data that doesn't actually prove anything. They've also held onto guys too long or didn't move them at all. There's plenty of holes to like thru out their regime. For any move they've made, they've held onto Gasol, or traded Taj for horsefeathers, or traded up for McDermott, or got nothing for Deng. And coming up with cap space is easy when you constantly miss on the max guys lol. Pretty easy to free up space. Especially when you're basically never into the tax. They've wasted their shot at trading Lopez. He should have been moved already because he's not the same player he was last year even. I don't even care about that one. Keeping him to mentor Carter may very well be the better move. But, they've got the ability(after the big FA again pass) to take on bad salary. They've had and will continue to have chances at adding late 1sts or 2nds. We'll see what they do with Portis. Working the margins separates winning franchises and these guys don't do it. They should be adding the things I've mentioned. They're not. You do enough mining, it can turn into something. And they've had plenty of opportunities they're not taking. You think these things don't matter. The constant failings at them WILL matter. It's what eventually separates teams. Evidently you're happy with them mostly. I think this franchise would be much better off without them.

Plenty of teams use their exceptions and most use them more often. Signing minimum level players, when a guy goes out is expected. Especially since thst had a roster spot due to Asik. When you make a trade like they did, they DID get lucky. They haven't exactly been great at trading in the past. And they certainly didn't know much about Lauri- they never even worked him out. To me, that's at least fortunate beyond belief. I was one of the few happy with the trade at the time. But its been better than I figured. But I didn't think they needed to trade off pick 16 and felt they could have picked up future 2nds too. Neither here nor there, at this point. But yes, their management style is sloppy as horsefeathers. And the things they COULD be doing and aren't conceivably are things that could cost us cap space in the future. By not finding extra rotation types or even hitting good on a late pick. Good franchises maximize these types of moves. The Bulls don't come close. So we're stuck hoping they constantly make the right big move because there's no potential bail out possibilities. So yeah, I like the talent we have amassed. But its very easy to expect them to be doing much more, at this exact point too.

I'm very well aware of every move they make. I'm also very well aware they waited until the end of the year last year, signed a few guys just to give them some salary towards the salary floor. Then signed Kilpatrick for enough money to cover it. I'm also well aware they have a 4.4 mill slot available currently, that they could have used at any point. And multip!e exceptions they've let expire. This must be good roster management to you.

By the way, didn't see an edit. I'd say signing Covington off the scrap heap is Philly's best maneuver as far as roster management has gone..... Only reason I brought Philly up is in response to Proven Veteran saying we were trying a Philly style rebuild. But again, the point is not whether the moves technically worked out. It's the fact that they're putting themselves in many more positions to succeed..... I mean, horsefeathers, if they had just made more attempts last year, they wouldn't have had the need to sign Kilpatrick(another Bartelstein guy lol)just to hit the salary floor. Then watch the savvy NBA get won them a few extra games last year that cost them draft positioning. There are guys that are shuttled up and down every year that turn into legit players. Even if it's just rotational pieces. There's plenty of 2nd round success stories. You don't not do these things just because they're long shots. it's no different than taking rule 5 shots, claiming guys off waivers, etc. All good organizations utilize these things as often as they can. For that matter, they've still got a room level exception they could use. To try and add a guy they could have dealt at the deadline..... Plus, the countless numbers of trade exceptions they constantly let expire...... Bottom line is I guess we just aren't going to agree. Because I'm not going to be convinced they're doing more than the minimum needed to hold onto the gigs they'll never actually lose. Hopefully they get an elite wing this next draft and head back to the playoffs next year.

Informative thread.

The difference is if Gray was a FA right now, he's getting 1/10 or maybe even a team gives him a multi year deal. Chatwood is getting an incentive laden minor league deal, if he's a FA right now...... I'd love to make that swap, I just don't see it as remotely feasible. And honestly, I think we're OK heading into 2019 with Lester, Darvish, Quintana, Hendricks, Hamels, Smyly, Montgomery, and Chatwood. Doubt they are more than minor league filler to this group until they add at the deadline.......