USSoccer

He gets a pass because since he's been a Cub he's been really, really good. He's built up enough benefit of doubt. Jones had been bad for 3 years, and hasn't been good with us.

There's a whole big thread on this right beneath this one. http://www.northsidebaseball.com/PremiumForum/viewtopic.php?t=31795

There's no justification for throwing something at a player, ever. That said, Jones needs to be dealt with by this team. To have him get doubled off like that 3 times in a month is unforgiveable.

thats what I saw, with 2 strikes non-the-less ?

yes, more frustration. Why should your opinion mean more than Rocket's, or mine, or anyone's? Age does not equate wisdom. Age does not give you a magical insight to what is good and what is not. I know plenty of 50 year old's that I'm much smarter than. I know 17 year olds that are smarter than everyone here.

Your first point means nothing. Santo and Kessinger...yes, they were Cubs. How do Aramis' first several years in the bigs compare to Santo's? Is that what you're trying to do? I hope we all see a winner soon. But any competitive chance the Cubs have is as a result of Lee and Ramirez being on this team and producing. So I don't quite know how this ties in to your argument that Ramirez is a "bum".

you call .217 hitting? .800 OPS hitting? .327 lifetime OBP? has only played in 145 games thrice in 2001,2003, and 2004. not worth it. If we reduce the arbitrary number to 140, he's played in 140 games 4 years out of 5. What happens if you raise the arbitrary "brittle-o-meter" to 160?

you call .217 hitting? .800 OPS hitting? .327 lifetime OBP? has only played in 145 games thrice in 2001,2003, and 2004. not worth it. Never mind that his career numbers are signifigantly affected by the awful 2002 he had. But yeah, let's ignore the stellar 2001, 2004 and 2005 seasons he had. And let's ignore the decent 2003. Sunny, I have to hand it to you. You never let facts get in the way of your arguments.

my point is that not only is he a bum with a lifetime OPS of .800 but he is brittle to boot. No way we should be giving him $11M a year. Give me a break. He's in a slump right now. Let's see how much of a "bum" he is in August when he's around .300 with 20 HR.

come on Aramis. Any time you want to pick it up, feel free...

If they entertain any hope of turning it around they need to find a way to be at .500 or above by June 1.

I'm jealous. Enjoy it-there's nothing like it in the world...

Boumsong got a spot. Also, out of the 4 good young defenders I named (Mexes, Silvestre, Christianval and Zebina), only one got a roster spot. I will now bet against France. Let's see how long their scoreless streak gets extended to in WC play. It's at 270 minutes right now :D

I don't trade Ramirez unless he's opting out and definetly not coming back after 2006, or unless we get a fantastic return. His numbers thus far are an anomaly. He's still going to be a very good-great player.

Seriously, though what is up with the guy? What a letdown. As one of his biggest fans, I'm baffled by his start as well. He' not getting many good pitches, and isn't doing anything with the ones he's getting. His swing at most everything approach is easily exploitable unless you make adjustments. Which is odd since it didn't hurt him in 2004 and 2005.

Seriously, though what is up with the guy? What a letdown. As one of his biggest fans, I'm baffled by his start as well. He' not getting many good pitches, and isn't doing anything with the ones he's getting.

You keep Z, Prior, Ramirez, Barrett, Murton, Lee and Cedeno. Everyone else is available.

7.5 games back in May is still a lot when you have to climb over 4 teams.

Jones is/has been hurt. Murton was probably benched for the game today because of the blunder yesterday. Cedeno has had a bad ankle since last weekend. Dusty is trying to get Barrett a rest to finish up the 17 in a row. Hairston has been 3-5, so he arguably is hitting well in the last couple of games. Neifi has also stepped it up over the last 10 days. Just tough when so many things are going wrong at the same time, including your $11m poster boy at 3b hitting .220 with only 4 hrs. Neifi has almost caught that now. Ramirez has 6 home runs. Not that he's playing great, just saying.

That's a quick way to alienate a veteran ballclub.

It wouldn't be anything other than a guy getting angry. It's not going to help our pitchers to stop putting the team in early holes, and it won't stop Clines and Matthews from preaching an obviously flawed approach at the plate, which particularly kills them after said pitching staff couhgs up an early 5 spot. It would be an arbitrary, meaningless expression contradicting his supposed lack of interest. It wouldn't do beans for this team. Ok, so you won't be disappointed if we get a good manager who possesses that quality? I would be thrilled to get a good manager. I could care less about his personality, as long as he knows what he's doing and it open to different ideas about the game. Having a guy who yells and is intense is the least of my concerns, and it should be the least of any fans' concerns. Yelling and screaming is not a trait that wins you championships.

It wouldn't be anything other than a guy getting angry. It's not going to help our pitchers to stop putting the team in early holes, and it won't stop Clines and Matthews from preaching an obviously flawed approach at the plate, which particularly kills them after said pitching staff couhgs up an early 5 spot. It would be an arbitrary, meaningless expression contradicting his supposed lack of interest. It wouldn't do beans for this team.

One "hot" week doesn't change a career of below average production, and doesn't excuse the terrible contract he was signed to. No, it doesn't, but what difference does it make. Jones is blacklisted. He can finish the season with an .850 OPS, and I doubt it would be enough to get support from the haters. How do you think the same types of people would react to a Neifi Perez NL batting title? Crickets, that's what. That's fine...if people wanna be like that, that's up to them. Let's just tell it like it is though. Bull. Every one of us "haters" would be thrilled to be proven wrong over a sample size like a season. If Jones finished with an .850 OPS, everyone here will be suprised and happy about that kind of season, but it wouldn't change the original facts that it was a bad signing and it would get anyone not to worry about a regression back to his career numbers in 2007. It's not "hating", it's seeing a trend and realizing that baseball players tend to gravitate towards their career norms. If Neifi won a batting title, everyone here would be thrilled, because it would likely mean a more productive offense and a more competitive team. But it wouldn't erase his 2.5 years of poor play in Chicago and excuse the contract given him after those first poor seasons. It would mean he got incredibly lucky. And you know what? We'd all love to have our players-even the ones a lot of us can't stand-have that kind of luck. But again, a week isn't anything. It's not a good indicator of anything at all. No one here should ever get excited about such a mediocre hot streak such as the one Sunny is yammering about Jones having, particularly when the team is 1-5 during said hot streak.

One "hot" week doesn't change a career of below average production, and doesn't excuse the terrible contract he was signed to.

That extension should never have been given in the first place. MacPhail, Hendry and Baker should all go, along with the entire staff save Speier, and the entire front office, scout system, and minor league development people. Silver lining: everything I have heard is that the Trib loves Andy. Maybe Hendry's extension will be proof positive that Andy has flaws and the entire organization needs to go in a different direction. I just don't think the corporate mentality will allow that. The team has made them a whole lot of money over Andy's tenure. They probably value that more that the struggles of the past 2 seasons. True, but the Hendry extension was a bad business decision. It was utterly premature, and I think particularly non-baseball suits can see that. How many times in 4 seasons has a bad business decision (in the form of a stupid contract) happened? I think things would have to get really, really bad (like KC Royals bad) for the Trib do move against Andy.