bc2k

I just sent a get well soon message to Prior at Myspace.

Admittedly that quote came from an anti-Cubs site that I found through google, but it's pretty accurate from my recollection. He was just tipping the local government workers for a job well done. gooney, nice avatar and nicer sig. :shock: Is New Jersey near Dixie? :wink:

He's probably talking about Dusty's "nothing hurts. nothing, nothing, nothing" Was that a lie or did Baker think the discomfort was normal Spring Training soreness? I think it was the latter. I think you're right. But I'm pretty sure that's the quote the previous poster was so steamed up about. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt here. Thanks for the benefit of the doubt, friend, and yes, the Dusty quote was one of the "blatant lies" I was referring to. The other was from GM Jim Hendry, who said something like, "This is the first we've heard Prior was hurt."

My guess is that if the Cubs had divulged this information earlier, it would have been against Prior's wishes and thus illegal. To me their credibility remains intact. You're assuming Prior made that request, thus your conclusion is quite premature, IMO. I'm sure Prior was just itching to give the club permission to put out news of his shoulder not being quite right, guaranteeing a barage of the type of media attention he clearly doesn't like. Prior doesn't have to make a request for the info to be kept quiet, he has to approve the release. If that were the case, the club could have cited Prior's privacy rights as to why they won't answer questions about his health. Yeah, it's a confirmation of injury without saying so directly, but it's a more straightforward and honest answer than the blatant lies by Hendry and Co. on the topic.

My guess is that if the Cubs had divulged this information earlier, it would have been against Prior's wishes and thus illegal. To me their credibility remains intact. You're assuming Prior made that request, thus your conclusion is quite premature, IMO.

Since it looks like we won't have at least one of Kerry, Prior and Wade Miller until sometime in May (at best), who will fill the 5-man rotation? Or will John Baker go with a 4-man rotation?

I don't normally correct grammar, but it helps to use the right form of the two forms of your and you're. Also, there should be an apostrophe in that's. And did you really mean seasons as plural? If so, there is no verb there. If not, then you should add an apostrophe. Also, your first sentence is a run-on. A semi-colon is needed between fine and look. Wow, four major errors is a 38 word post. That might be a record. It seems your lack of baseball knowledge is only matched by your use of the English language. Didn't he use the correct "your"? (Discussing grammar>discussing possibility of Lee being hurt) Yes, the troll's use of "your" was correct.

Looks like SouthSideRyan is going to have to change part of his signature. :cry:

Stupid? I think so. But not that stupid. As I've already said, it was a very different situation. They believed that Kerry wasn't going to injure his shoulder any further by pitching. They also kept him in there because they believed he could help them in the wild card race. With Prior, making him pitch when they know he's injured would not help their playoff chances. Quite the opposite. And pitching while injured would most definitely risk further and more serious injury. But note the difference in the two situations: Kerry pitched live regular season games that mattered; Prior didn't even face one spring training opposing hitter. So for you to say that they both "pitched while injured" is deceiving. This spring's handling of Prior does suggest that the Cubs held him back in attempts to see if he could make progress with his injury through pitching and treatments from trainer Mark O'Neal: "We've been treating him for basically normal symptoms that everybody has when they throw." To me, this suggests that they didn't feel his discomfort was anything out of the ordinary. Again, Prior has complained of pain in the past only to have multiple tests (and doctors) unable to find a problem. I'm very curious to find out what Dr. Yocum has to say... Agreed, I also thought of that when posting.

Stupid? I think so. But not that stupid. As I've already said, it was a very different situation. They believed that Kerry wasn't going to injure his shoulder any further by pitching. They also kept him in there because they believed he could help them in the wild card race. With Prior, making him pitch when they know he's injured would not help their playoff chances. Quite the opposite. And pitching while injured would most definitely risk further and more serious injury. But note the difference in the two situations: Kerry pitched live regular season games that mattered; Prior didn't even face one spring training opposing hitter. So for you to say that they both "pitched while injured" is deceiving. This spring's handling of Prior does suggest that the Cubs held him back in attempts to see if he could make progress with his injury through pitching and treatments from trainer Mark O'Neal: "We've been treating him for basically normal symptoms that everybody has when they throw."

On February 20th (the day Carroll's article came out), he hadn't thrown off the mound either in a bullpen session or in a simulated game. Before today, he had done both and was in the middle of preparing for another session when it happened. He was also on pace to start in a Cactus League game in about a week. That's not holding him back. Clearly, Prior was held back. He was doing less pitching than every other pitcher in camp.

As was pointed out, he was already going to be on a different throwing program and he wasn't in shape because of his illness (and I think a couple of pictures would back that up). And the important thing is that it was a throwing program. He was pitching. Pitchers don't do that if they're injured I would accept your reasoning for a different throwing program if Prior's program was just a scaled back version of what healthy pitchers do. But Prior was not allowed to even pitch one inning against live hitting, and only advanced to simulated games and took forever to get to that point. Prior's lack of pitching wasn't to gradually build up his strength; it was because he was nursing an injury.

A friend spreading false injury rumors would be pretty unnerving. Either way, your case is pretty speculative. It seems more plausible that the team was less than forthcoming, especially in light of the very slow pace the Cubs took with him. The team would have more reason to shut him down. I don't know how people can continue to blame the team when the player is echoing their sentiments (if not defending them). BTW,everyone here is speculating. It might be speculation, but it's beyond a reasonable doubt type speculation given the track record of lies. BTW, they did shut Prior down. That's why he was throwing simulated-simulated games with a towel. Sorry, I don't know what else to call a "simulated" game that takes place among other simulated spring training games. Sub-simulated games? Penultimate simu-games? :? Towel drills are a common arm strength building technique. The Cubs had not shut him down before now. He was always pitching to build strength. If we're to believe that there were lies why aren't we willing to believe that Prior is at the center? Afterall, he had been saying all along that he was fine. If we are to believe that the team has a hidden agenda (ticket sales for instance) for not making this issue public earlier then I'd like to know what Prior's motivation is for going along with the ruse? He would be jeopardizing his future. Like I said, he probably had some level of discomfort initially but ignored it figuring it was all apart of the normal rigors of ST. I think today's revelation was Prior feeling like the pain was bad enough to have a doctor checkit out. Or perhaps Prior and the Cubs thought his injury was something that wasn't serious enough to warrant a specialist's opinion, and that it would not stop him from starting the season. Prior's motivation for going along with the organization could have been because he doesn't want to promote the injury prone title that's he's already been called. Basically, they took a wait-and-see approach and didn't want to make public Prior's injury until necessary. Three weeks later, it became necessary.

A friend spreading false injury rumors would be pretty unnerving. Either way, your case is pretty speculative. It seems more plausible that the team was less than forthcoming, especially in light of the very slow pace the Cubs took with him. It's all speculative, though, especially when they had seemingly no reason to push Prior if they knew he was injured (as has been claimed in this thread) and lying about an injury was risking an awful lot with his health. Push Prior? They have done nothing but hold him back all ST. Perhaps they were hoping this injury would heal in the 6 weeks before the season so they wouldn't have to go public with it. Once it became worse than they had expected and hoped, they had to send Prior to a specialist and make that info public.

Just because we cannot pinpoint the motivation for the Cubs organization to hide and lie about Prior's injury, doesn't mean the organization didn't hide and lie this injury. Recent data appears to show that the Cubs lied and hid Prior's injury. Here is what I believe is the most telling data to support this claim: 1. Prior had a different throwing program than every other healthy pitcher in camp this year and in years' past. 2. Will Carroll trusted his source enough to publish Prior's injury before confirmation from the Cubs camp. His credibility is good and he received his injury news from a previously accurate source. Maybe the motivation for not reporting this injury earlier was because Hendry couldn't retain honesty as a GM if the day pitchers and catchers report, it's announced that Prior is injured after being shopped all offseason. That's just speculation though, and whether true or false, doesn't change the fact that the Cubs lied and hid Mark Prior's injury.

I disagree with this argument 100%. What did the Cubs draw pre-98? And what was their highest selling year? '04, when playoff expectations were at a peak. The Cubs haven't gone more than 2 years since '98 without fielding a winning or playoff team (98, 01, 03, 04). A few more years like last year - maybe just one or two more - and all of a sudden it mightn't be so hard to get Wrigley tix again. There's often a few years lag between the onset of losing and an associated drop in attendance (see Chicago Blackhawks - remember the roar?). I'm not saying the Cubs must have known Prior was hurt before tix went on sale. But it's certainly not implausible. But we aren't talking about the future ticket sales, we're talking about this year. Whether Prior was hurt or not, the Cubs were going to sell tickets, lots and lots of them. Will Carroll's source on Prior's shoulder problem also tipped him off about the Achilles, so it's hard to believe this was just a lucky guess on Carroll's part. You can argue about why the Cubs lie, but it's plain that they do in fact lie. That's a really good point.

The Reds? GMAFB. Some in the media just like to make wild claims just to draw attention to their normally unread articles. Gary Gillette is about as sharp as a two-week-old Mach 3.

I still think if we can have a healthy Prior to start the season and a healthy Wood and Miller to complete the rotation in May that we will be a strong contender this season. This news makes Baker's 4-man rotation plan all the more genius. :roll:

When Baker was hired, I was very pleased. I have since done a complete 180 on my opinion of John Baker. Anything short of a World Series appearance and he will not return to the Cubs. I don't even expect preliminary negotiations to occur.

He's been a second-half pitcher the past few years. It sounds like this offseason he has been more committed to fitness and staying in shape, so hopefully he'll hit that post-ASB performance earlier on this year. That is the only theory I think holds any value when predicting Maddux's 2006 success. I guess I'm not as optimistic as most others on this topic.

You might be on to something here. The helmet Sosa was wearing when he was beaned shattered.

Well, it's all how it's framed. Yes Prior has been "delayed," but only in terms of when they thought he was going to be ready to throw to hitters. Nobody can be expected to keep to a schedule exactly. The bottom line is that not only is Prior not being shut down, his actual progress isn't being delayed. He's still going forward, building up arm strength, and isn't experiencing pain. There's really nothing at all to worry about in terms of what Rothschild said today. What? They pushed back his first session against live hitters a couple of days, but he's still throwing and building up arm strength. Sullivan can call it a "delay," but his actual throwing isn't being pushed back at all. It's not like they've shut him down for a few days. That's my point too. I'm trusting Bruce Miles's word over Paul Sullivan's. Can anyone help me find that recent thread where Miles talked about Prior's health?

Well, it's all how it's framed. Yes Prior has been "delayed," but only in terms of when they thought he was going to be ready to throw to hitters. Nobody can be expected to keep to a schedule exactly. The bottom line is that not only is Prior not being shut down, his actual progress isn't being delayed. He's still going forward, building up arm strength, and isn't experiencing pain. There's really nothing at all to worry about in terms of what Rothschild said today. What?

Didn't Bruce Miles assure us that there's nothing wrong with Prior? I believe him over Sullivan.

I hate waiting for more information to become public. This waiting part is what snarls my stomach.