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I was at that Michigan/Illinois game and the play happened right in front of us. Every fan in the section I was in not only thought the Michigan player(I think it was Anthony Thomas) was down but also wondered where the flag for the face mask was. I agree after seeing highlights that he wasnt down but in a split second look he did look down. I have never seen a highlight that could verify what we all clearly seen though, that the Illinois player dragged him down by the facemask. I also think that the call on the Illinois players fumble was incorrect but it would have been 4th and a mile and Illinois would have had to punt. If you remember that game Illinois had a large halftime lead. Drew Hensen didnt play in the first half. They put him in in the 2nd half and Michigan just completely clobbered them. I dont think they stopped Michigan once in the 2nd half so the Illinois fumble probably didnt matter. Also there was a bizarre celebrating penalty on Michigan in that game that was very costly at the time. It allowed Illinois to keep a drive going late in the game. Kind of off topic but I remember thinking how great of a game that was afterwords. I was cheering for Illinois but came away thinking Drew Hensen was going to be a great QB. I also was at the Illinois/Penn St game in 94 which was truly one the most amazing games I ever saw. I was cheering for Penn St that game because I wanted them to go undefeated and win a NT, if MSU didnt beat them. I didnt see either of the Michigan/Iowa game last year or the Michigan/Penn St. So I cant comment on those. In the Michigan/Penn St game 4 years ago there was a bad call where I believe a Penn St player caught the ball but was ruled out of bounds? If this is the game that you are talking about I also remember that a Penn St player caught a pass earlier in the drive that he didnt catch, it gave Penn St a first down instead of being something like 4th and 10. Just another case of remember what we want to remember and forgetting what works out for our team. Anyway I do know of a time when a Michigan St time keeper cost Michigan a game also. If a Michigan fan was asked I am sure that they could point out numerous cases were they feel that the refs screwed them. Last years Alamo Bowl being one that I can remember. Just for clarification I am a Michigan St fan and probably could tell you a lot more instances when I thought the officiating was going for them. I am just saying that Michigan is easily the most hated team in the Big Ten. Like I said earlier we like to notice and remember when calls go against our teams or the teams we are rooting for and not notice or remember when they work in our favor. Since Michigan is generally disliked our emotional preception thinks they are getting all the breaks. Its just like everyone thinking that the Yankees get all the breaks, or the Lakers. Most NHL fans think the Red Wings get all the calls even though they lead the NHL in penalty mins just a couple of years ago. I just dont think the amount of people who would have to know all this is going on, someone would be talking by now. Lastly I want to apologize about this being in the ND thread. It really is about officiating and since most ND haters think they get all the breaks it is kind of about them also.

Michigan is traditionally one of the least penalized teams in the country. For years I thought this was some sort of Michigan bias. However the more I watch them and the older I get I have noticed that some of the things that usually attract a lot of penalties like holding they just dont do. I am not saying that they dont hold but they almost always have their hands inside the shoulder pads when blocking. They also let go when the defender is creating some space. They rarely ever fall start or go offsides. I think their defensive backs are more physical than most, however defensive holding is probably one the the least called penalties in Football. I think defensive backs get a lot of leeway. So I guess I am saying they just seem to play smarter with these things. Watching the game on Saturday I am surprised to see some complaining about the officiating in the game. There were some silly calls in the 4th quarter. I didnt notice any blatant calls that went the wrong way though. Since NBC easily has the worst coverage of anyone doing football sometimes it is hard to see things on TV though. At least one time the announcers and the camera guys were looking at one thing and it looked like a holding was going on somewhere else. Another time a Michigan receiver caught the ball on the sidelines and the play was reviewed. NBC only had 2 angles and both were behind the reciever so you couldnt tell if he was in or out when he got control of the ball. I wonder how much NBC makes from ND football because they dont seem to invest a lot of money into a good production. I have said in the past that I dont think any teams get unfair treatment from refs. ND haters always think that they are getting breaks from the refs because they are "Notre Dame" The same with Michigan or any other big time school. The amount of people involved that would have to know that the games are not on the up and up would be too many without someone coming out and admitting this is going on. I also think we seem to see and notice when a call goes against our team or the team we are rooting for. We also tend to forget when our team gets favorable calls. If for example Oregon has only 1 loss this year and are making an arguement to be a BCS at large team I am guessing they wont be mentioning Sats onside kick. If Oklahoma is making a case to be a BCS at large team I am guessing they will point out that play a 1000 times

Our pitcher made a heck of a catch for a TD. I think it was obvious that Michigan put a priority on stopping Smzardja(sp?) There was some speculation on this board after the Cubs drafted him that he would be a top ten NFL pick. I didnt see it then and certainly dont see it now. I actually have a new found respect for Brady Quinn. Kind of reminded me of Cool Hand Luke when he was fighting Dragline. He was getting pummelled (and was playing poorly) and kept getting up even when it was obvious that they were beaten. If he shows that kind of perserverence he will become a successful NFL player

Derwood I am glad you said it. I think Penn St is going to get hammered. I hope Mich St can beat ND. I just dont think its going to happen. ND certainly will play a much improved game this week. I am glad that Michigan St hasnt been ranked yet though. I think they are going to surprise one of the big 3 in the next month. My beat is Ohio St

I wasnt as down on him as you guys may have been. I certainly didnt understand why he was untradeabe though.

NDistops, The refereeing was not a joke. The only joke was the way they tried to get ND in the game in the fourth quarter. I agree about Henne being pretty good today. He was awful against ND last year and probably cost them the game. Maningham has STUD written all over him. I thought he was pretty good last year but was the 3rd reciever behind Avant and Breaston. I said this in the ND thread but I think that ND really is about as good as Michigan. Michigan played really good and ND was terrible. I think if they played 10 times it would be pretty close. I was watching all 3 of the games today at the same time Auburn/LSU, Michigan/ND and OU/OU. I was surprised how often all 3 games were at commercial at the same time. So they create rules that shorten the actual game time. Worse of all several times the Auburn/LSU game was back from commercial and the refs still held up play for an extra 30 seconds or so. I also think this happened in the Michigan/ND game once. With all of this wasted time it makes the new time rule even more of a joke.

I think ND played really poorly today and Michigan played about as well as they could. I said last year after ND beat Michigan that I didnt think they were any better than Michigan, Now this year I am going to say the same thing the other way. I dont think Michigan is that much better than ND. I dont want to debate this in a ND thread but I do believe Michigan and OSU will meet for the Big Ten championship. I truly believe that Michigan can beat them. So to say that ND lost to a team that wont win the Big Ten title may be a little premature. I will also say this Soul, who in the Big Ten besides OSU is better than Michigan?

I think this is a good move for the Tigers. They need a LH bat in the order. He would be a nice resign for them next season also.

I also liked Dwight Smith a lot. Hopefully this will help him in the long run

I guess you can call all the Tigers fans bitter also. I do believe their disdain for Neifi is at an even higher level than ours.

In Dusty's era so far with the Cubs there has been some questionable decisions on playing time. I wonder sometimes if how a player will preform in the hot sun is why. Though as some have mentioned there has been other examples. This is in all serious now. I really think fishing buddies is the answer. When running a baseball team I think this is every bit as bad as who plays better in the hot sun. Its just not as socially incorrect

Derreck Lee thats his name unclogging bases Thats his game New nickname for DLee "The Plunger"

I like Hart also. I think one of Michigans problem the last couple of years is that there so called superstars dont always put in a good effort(that and the fact that everyone in the world knows what play they are going to run). I think Hart is the exception. He really seems to put a lot of effort into every play.

I was watching some of the Raiders/Chargers game last night and have a question. I am not sure but Randy Moss seemed to get flagged for tossing a ball to a Charger on the sideline. Taunting was the call. However everytime Merriman had a sack he proceeded to do some sort of prearranged dance. Personnally I am against both of these behaviors. I am just wondering how what Moss did was a penalty and Merrimans antics were ok? I understand that Merriman is supposedly "celebrating" but make no mistake that is every bit as much of a taunt as what Moss did.

I'm a Michigan St fan and I have no problem cheering for Michigan against a non-big ten team. I wont loose any sleep if they loose. I just always cheer for Big Ten teams in non-conference games.

I agree with the original post. Just let Murton play left. The Cubs are not going to win the World Series next season. I would be for trading for Cabrera but I dont think the Marlins are going to be moving him. If so other teams have more to offer. I have said it before and I will say it again. Just start playing the kids. We keep going in these cycles between poor to slightly above average. Would it kill us to let guys like Murton, Pie, Hill, Theriot, Mateo, Marshall, and Marmol keep playing for us or start next season. We have gone 100 years of trying to patchwork together crap to make a contender. Would it be so bad just to fill our needs with minor league talent for several years. We certainly dont know if it will work because the Cubs dont ever do it. We do know that bringing in over valued players from other organizations hasnt been very effective. Does this mean the Cubs will suck again next season? Probably so. I think they would be a better team than this years team though. I would contend that the Cubs are in serious need of a change in philosophy. It would probably mean better drafting and player development. Maybe though the Cubs worst part of player development is not letting them play in the Majors. I dont think Justin Morneu was ever a top shelf prospect. The Twins just let him play for a couple of years and It turns out he can play. He would have never been even given the chance with the Cubs A good example for next season would be Pie. Are we serious about keeping a mediocre player (Pierre) around instead of letting a potential superstar play. Worse of all is I would contend that Pierre will not be any better than Pie next season. I know there is going to be those who say he would be getting rushed to the Major Leagues. I would like those who believe this to prove to me that "rushing" a player to the major leagues hurt his career. Heck back in 2003 most people probably thought Miguel Cabrera got rushed to the major leagues. I know some will say that Clee and Soriano are different though. Well I have seen the Clee story before. His name was George Bell(luckily Sammy got good or Bell would really have been a disaster) Soriano is having a career year at the age of 30 in a contract year. Warning Warning. Thats if the Cubs can sign them. If not what then? Pedro Feliz. I know the Cubs wont do what I am suggesting. I just have seen way to many Jacgue Jones and Juan Pierres in my years as a Cub fan. I wish they would just play players from the farm system and stay committed to them for a couple years. I think the outcome would be way better than what we are doing now.

How long is Carlos Guillen out? He is Detroits best postition player and has been out for at least a week, I thought it was just a day to day thing.

I wonder what Barry Bonds is going to get? For all the talk about his bad year he still has an ops above .900. Detroit could sure use a LH power hitting DH. I dont think you can blame the White Sox for letting Thomas go. He was about as frustrating as Wood and Prior have been for us.

Juan Pierres has played in how many straight games? This is just plain stupid!! Its not like he is Cal Ripken, Lou Gehrig, or Billy Williams where the players talent justifies keeping them in the lineup everyday. I wonder how many straight games Omar Moreno played in? If all Pie is going to do is get the scraps in LF after Murton and Pagan, I would just as soon not start his service time. If he would come up and play everyday than I would be all for him coming up.

I heard this tonite on the Pat and Ron show it was actually pretty funny. I cant remember everything but this is the jest of the conversation. Ron: I got a fax here from Who cares from who knows, it says "the Cubs have got to lead the league in most runners left on base this season" I dont have the stats in front of me Who Cares but I would say they have done a terrible job of driving home runners. Pat: Well Ron I do have the stats and the Cubs do lead the league in runners left on base! (This is when I about drove off the road because I figured he was reading it backwords) Ron: (Grunts some sort of agreement) Pat: I have it backwords the Cubs have left the fewest runners on base. Ron: Really!!! Who has the most? Pat: The Phillies who also lead the league in Runs Scored. (Pat goes on to say that there is some sort of correlation between getting runners on and scoring runs, though he never comes out and says that the Cubs management has been feeding us a bunch of bull about the clutch hitting) Ron: Runs scored that is the stat the really matters!! (kind of downplaying what must have been a complete shock to find out that a team can lead the league in Runs Scored and LOB and not seeming to find the correlation between the 2) Pat: The Cubs are last in the league in Walks. They just dont have a patient approach Ron: That has been the case for several years. (Again Ron seems to be half getting the point. I really think though that the reason he knows the Cubs dont draw a lot of walks is because they are not raising enough money in his Walks for a Cure thing) I hear this kind of stuff a lot from the announcers but why doesnt anyone ask these questions to Dusty and Jim. I am sorry if it sounds like I am picking on you Bruce as I know you do a fine job of pointing out the Cubs short-comings. I just wish I could hear an interview with Jim Hendry where a reporter or talk show host points out that the Cubs have had the fewest LOB this year and are last in the league in Runs Scored while the Phillies have had the most LOB and are leading the league in Runs Scored. When he tries to weazel out of it ask the same question again. Then when they point out injuries and young players point out that besides Cedeno the younger players seem to take more Walks and get on base more

I dont want to look down on people for who the cheer for and why. I just dont understand a fan of a Big Ten team cheering for Texas to beat OSU. I am going to go out on a limb and say that Texas sure has had its unsavory players.(Like OSU) I am sure the payroll there is just as good as it is in Columbus, South Bend, Ann Arbor, State College or East Lansing(had to throw my team in there just to show I am not biased) I guess I just cheer for Big Ten teams to win all non conference games. I personnally would think it would suck to win the conference like Illinois did 4 or 5 years ago not because they were really good but because everyone else sucked. I feel the better the conference is the better each team in it is. I guess being a MSU fan you kind of got to reach for something. All that being said I think Texas is going to win though in a high scoring game. 38-31 I also think ND is going to bounce back and handle Penn St 31-20. Score being closer than the game really is.

I thought it was obvious on Sat night that they were going to drop ND so they could have a #1vs#2 matchup this weekend. Personnally I think ND was ranked to high to begin with. I really think if any team should have moved up to #2 it should have been USC.

I think the Raiders will be better than expected, just in their division the best they will do is 6-10.

After watching some games this weekend I really dont like the rule where they start the clock after a change of possession once the ball is set. There is already not enough game and way too many comercials. I wish they would find another way to speed the game up.

Since the advent of teams creating there own minor league system(30s and 40s), I would say that the Cubs are the worst team in MLB. What I find frightening is not that there might be teams that have worse championship ratios or anything. Just that arguements can be made that Cubs are the worse team ever. I dont care if the Expos have won less championships. I care that we havent and seem to have no clue as to what championship level teams do.