Rob

Why? If Roberts came, you would have Derosa and Fontenot as backup infielders. Still don't think the deal will happen, but cutting Cintron should not have any bearing on it. You're assuming Lou feels comfortable at SS with DeRosa or Fontenot for an extended amount of time should anything happen to Theriot... which doesn't appear to be the case.

Cutting Cintron means we wont be trading Cedeno. Cedeno and Gallagher were the only constants in the proposed deals... Getting a deal done just got a whole heckuva lot harder.

I only like fu manchus in Montreal.

Just standard categories (R, HR, RBI, SB, BA, W, SO, SV, ERA, WHIP). And while I don't particularly need help in steals, I could really use a boost in batting average. I am employing Rickie Weeks, Stephen Drew, and Chris Young... and only have Todd Helton really offsetting one of them. Besides, with Santana, Peavy, and Smoltz in the fold... losing Hamels is just trading from depth.

Trade Thome and Kendrick for some starting pitching help. Play Johnson and Kemp in their places.

Deal is accepted and pending league approval (need 6 votes from mostly disinterested owners to shoot it down... it wont get vetoed). My offense just got somewhat fearsome.

This may become less of an issue. Another guy in the league has the worst pitching staff in the league (by far), and a major mancrush on Jay Bruce... he's currently debating a trade of Carl Crawford for Cole Hamels and Jay Bruce. And while that may seem lopsided, the numbers actually show that he would be getting considerably better even if Jay Bruce never takes a cut in the majors this year.

Why aren't you locking this damned thread! I secretly want this thread to cross the 300 page plateau. That way we can say we talked about nothing for 300 pages. That's not exactly a well-kept secret. Well, it was a mighty fine secret until YOU decided to let the cat out of the bag. I didn't let it out. It clawed its way out while I was digging the hole to bury it in.

Why aren't you locking this damned thread! I secretly want this thread to cross the 300 page plateau. That way we can say we talked about nothing for 300 pages. That's not exactly a well-kept secret.

Don't fool yourselves, folks... Rosenthal saying "it's over" doesn't mean that it's actually over.

Now that the Rays have decided officially to send down Evan Longoria, I'm one player short of being able to field a full team. Mark Reynolds is on the waiver wire, so I know I can grab him... but the question now is who do I drop? I have it narrowed down to Evan Longoria, Jay Bruce, Matt Cain, Pedro Martinez, and Rich Harden. Standard 5x5 H2H league (the only exception is that it's LF/CF/RF instead of 3 OF). We get seven keepers for next season. This is my roster as it stands now... C - Victor Martinez 1B - Todd Helton 2B - Rickie Weeks SS - Stephen Drew 3B - Ryan Braun LF - Alfonso Soriano CF - Chris Young RF - Corey Hart UTIL - Evan Longoria SP - Johan Santana SP - Jake Peavy SP - John Smoltz SP - Cole Hamels P - Joe Nathan P - Jonathan Papelbon Bench: Jay Bruce Matt Cain Pedro Martinez Rich Harden

Interesting project. I'll fill out my form in a minute.

While Felix Pie has really crushed the ball in the major leagues, right? So I guess it's safe to assume he'll be horrible, too? As I said in another post, when the Chicago Cubs start playing the Omaha Royals - let me know. Cedeno raked in the minor leagues - why isn't he starting in front of Theriot? His minor league stats suggest he should... your post makes my brain hurt The arrogance by many on this board makes mine hurt. Pie and Cedeno have better minor league numbers - therefore it will just automatically translate to success at the major league despite what their past performances have shown us. I know so because numbers support my claim - despite what the actual play on the field suggests. Pay no attention to that.... Arrogance? There was nothing about your post that made sense. Pie and Cedeno have put up really, really good numbers in the minor leagues, and Pie was usually very young for his level. Ryan Theriot never put up really, really good numbers and was often very old for his level. Ryan Theriot has done nothing in the major leagues to have an everyday job handed to him, while guys like Pie and Cedeno have proven, based on their minor league numbers, that they deserve a shot. What I said was just because Pie and Cedeno did well in the minor leagues it doesn't always equate to success at the major league level. How hard was that to understand? Many here want to see Cedeno start in front of Theriot based on potential and minor league performance while forgetting the fact Cedeno failed miserably when given the opportunity at the major league level. Theriot was not good, true, but he was/is better then Cedeno. Many are so quick to bash Theriot's defense, his lack of power, etc. Funny - they're all better than what Cedeno has done in the major leagues...if Theriot sucks that bad how would you describe Cedeno? Yes, I thought it was stupid Hendry didn't make improving shorstop priority #1 in the offseason but Theriot is the best we got. I wish that wasn't the case and we had another viable option but it sure isn't Ronny Cedeno. Did you just wake up one morning and arbitrarily decide that since the minor leagues and the major leagues aren't the exact same thing, that you can't compare them at all? Because we certainly can. Age 21: Cedeno - .279/.328/.401 at AA Theriot - .204/.341/.252 at A+ Age 22: Cedeno - .355/.403/.518 at AAA, .300/.356/.375 at MLB (80 AB) Theriot - .252/.335/.313 at A Age 23: Cedeno - .245/.271/.339 at MLB Theriot - .259/.353/.318 at A, .236/.351/.270 at AA Age 24: Cedeno - .359/.422/.537 at AAA, .203/.231/.392 at MLB (74 AB) Theriot - .273/.367/.342 at A+ Age 25: Cedeno - 2008 Theriot - .304/.365/.391 at AA, .154/.214/.231 at MLB (13 AB) Age 26: Cedeno - 2009 Theriot - .304/.367/.379 at AAA, .328/.412/.522 at MLB Age 27: Cedeno - 2010 Theriot - .266/.326/.346 at MLB At every age in their respective careers, Cedeno has been playing at a higher level than Theriot... and with the exception of his bad year in the majors, Cedeno has been significantly better despite playing at much higher levels. (Though one can reasonably assume that if you were to jump Theriot to the majors at age 23 with his mediocre lines split between A and AA, that he would have performed significantly worse than Cedeno did... yuck). Ryan Theriot seems like a real nice guy. But he's a pretty abysmal ballplayer... We wouldn't stand to lose much if we played Cedeno and he imploded... but we could gain a whole lot if Cedeno played up to even a fraction of his potential. Keeping Theriot in there as the starting SS is the sort of risk-averse move that is the reason guys baseball has guys like Dusty Baker still in this league... "proven" guys. (Even if they only have proven to be quite bad)

Ridiculous.

While Felix Pie has really crushed the ball in the major leagues, right? So I guess it's safe to assume he'll be horrible, too? As I said in another post, when the Chicago Cubs start playing the Omaha Royals - let me know. Cedeno raked in the minor leagues - why isn't he starting in front of Theriot? His minor league stats suggest he should... SAMPLE SIZE. A couple hundred sporadic at bats in the majors at age 22 doesn't exactly mean a whole lot in projecting a player from that point onward. If you can't properly discount those numbers, you'd actually be better off forgetting it happened at all rather than taking it into account. Oh, and Cedeno should be starting in front of Theriot. Ryan Theriot is the worst hitter on our ballclub (including bench players), and a mediocre defensive SS at his best. Theriot doesn't even have a chance to be anywhere close to decent in full time play... Cedeno might not be a great bet to, but he at least has a chance. And we all know that baseball is all about playing the percentages.

I'm under the impression Lieber signed because he was essentially guaranteed a rotation spot unless he pitched his way out of it. If memory serves, he's had the best spring of all those three guys.

+1 And who knows where salaries will be in 8 years. This could be a bargain in 3-4. Compared to A-Rod, it is a bargain NOW. Compared to Soriano, Cabrera's contract is an absolute steal. Only an extra 17.3 mil spread out over eight years... and instead of getting an aging player who at his best is only very good, you get a player who is already fantastic, and hasn't even hit his prime yet.

I think Demp might've pitched his way out of a rotation spot (unless we can find a taker for Marquis in the next week or two).

Projected splits for 2008 (courtesy of Baseball Prospectus) DaVanon: vs. LHP - .269/.368/.374 vs. RHP - .261/.362/.371 Johnson: vs. LHP - .278/.346/.416 vs. RHP - .256/.314/.369 Neither one is a world-beater... but I'd rather have DaVanon. Johnson may be marginally better against lefties... but DaVanon has a huge edge against righties. And since we have to worry about Lou benching Pie if anything goes wrong, I'd at least like to have a backup that isn't only decent on the short-side of a platoon.

Ryan Theriot has no business batting anywhere in the top seven spots of the lineup. Beyond that, I don't really care if Lou bats him eighth or ninth. At any rate, we need to be operating under the assumption that Ryan Theriot is going to be horrible... because he's done absolutely nothing in his entire career to suggest anything to the contrary. Since we are operating under that assumption, it makes perfect sense to root for him to stumble out of the starting gate. If it looks like a problem from the outset, we are much more likely to attempt to fix the problem... rather than if he started off decently and slumped horribly in mid-august through the end of september. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/T/Ryan-Theriot.shtml http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/Felix-Pie.shtml If anybody thinks that Theriot is even half the hitter that Pie is right now, they need to pay a lot more attention to what minor league stats mean. (Hint, they are very instructive)

I'd prefer DaVanon to Johnson, but I don't see a huge difference in value between the two. And both are certainly preferable to trading something potentially useful for junk like Jay Payton or Marlon Byrd.

196. Corey Patterson 197. Hiroki Kuroda 198. Johnny Peralta 199. Mark Prior (It had to be done)

Willits - .266/.353/.354, EqA .267 Theriot - .270/.330/.347, EqA .237 Fuld - .260/.331/.362, EqA .240 Pie - .291/.345/.480, EqA .273

Would that be a regression? That's basically what he is. It's more than just a couple walks. Willits: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/images/willire03_006.png Theriot: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/images/theriry01_006.png Fuld: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/images/fuldsa01_006.png Pie: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/images/piefe01_006.png

Wuertz + for this guys doesn't seem very sensible. "This guy" was #3 in rookie of the year voting last year. Yeah, and in 89 Walton and Smith went 1/2. ROY and other voting is meaningless to me. We're talking about a guy who has done a decent job hitting for average and getting on base at an old age for every level, and he hits for no power. I don't see him making much of a career out of his skillset. Wuertz, as a middle reliever, may be of equal value, but I'd much rather include Wuertz in a deal for something meaningful, not another 4th outfielder. Coming from a GM who so grossly overvalues veteran relievers, I can't imagine how he can justify trading one of his best + prospects for this guy. From what I see, he was 5th in voting. He would be our starting CF, IMO. Thats a scary thought. Pie and Fuld fight it out for the CF job in spring training. Pie spanks Fuld around a bit, wins the job easily. So we trade for a slightly supercharged version of Fuld... I could see the justification for using Willits as our CF against lefties. But he shouldn't be taking over against righties. And while I could probably stand the loss of Wuertz, tossing in more alongside him is grossly overpaying.