ThePenguin11

So are you saying that if Soriano played a full season with the Cubs he'd hit 14 home runs with 70 RBI's and score only 70 Runs? Those numbers would still carry over if he joined the Cubs. Don't get me wrong, I loved Moneyball, and believe in Jamesean / Sabermetric theories - but they don't outweigh real year-to-year production. I can't believe that runs and RBI's are meaningless. That's ridiculous.

Wuertz could also be an option to send down. I agree with Weurtz being sent down. He's having a hard time right now and needs to get his confidence back.

He would be just as potent in our lineup as he would in the Rangers lineup - our lineup isn't the Pirates lets remember. He would have a ton of RBI opportunities with Murton, Lee, Ramirez and Burnitz in front of him.

soriano is an improvement over walker, but not a big one. it's not big enough to justify trading good prospects for him, and paying him 3 times more. also, soriano is a butcher in the field, which brings down his value further. the cubs' number one weakness offensively is OBP, getting soriano doesn't address that at all. It actually hurts as we lose walker's superior OBP... It also still leaves the black hole in left field. Soriano would be an upgrade in homeruns, an upgrade which this team doesn't need. We need OBP. We need a left fielder. We need Adam Dunn. Agreed on Dunn - I'll gladly take him over Soriano. But if we can't get Dunn then Soriano at second base batting 6th and Murton in left batting 2nd would be a great lineup in my opinion.

soriano is an improvement over walker, but not a big one. it's not big enough to justify trading good prospects for him, and paying him 3 times more. also, soriano is a butcher in the field, which brings down his value further. the cubs' number one weakness offensively is OBP, getting soriano doesn't address that at all. Not a big improvement? 20-30 more runs and 20-30 more rbi's??? Do you think his extra 12-15 errors make up for, say, 25 extra runs every year?

I wouldn't mind it seeing as Mitre and Wellemeyer don't really fit into our plans and much as i like Pinto - it means we keep Hill. That deal probably would include others from the Rangers side - Delucci or Mench would be nice - but one of their pen arms would be good too. I would expect that they'd definitely include prospects though. What's the point of giving up three serviceable arms when Walker provides essentially the same production as Soriano? (At 1/3rd the cost, no less?) Needless to say I think this would be an insanely stupid trade on the part of the Cubs. (And my opinion of Hendry would fall to Baker-esque levels if it went down.) No improvement to the team at the cost of depleting our most tradeable commodities and a severe hit in the budget? No way. I'll say it again; I'm only remotely interested in Soriano if he ends up in Left and Walker stays at second. Otherwise, Texas is more than free to keep him. Why does everyone think that Walker produces the same as Soriano? That's just absurd. Let me know when Walker can hit 40 Homeruns knock in 100 runs, score 120 runs and steal 30 - 40 bases. SEASONAL AVG.'s (per 162 games played) Walker: Runs: 85 HR: 14 RBI: 71 BA: .289 OBP: .347 SLG: .439 OPS: .786 SB: 10 Soriano: Runs: 103 HR: 33 RBI: 94 BA: .283 OBP: .321 SLG: .504 OPS: .825 SB: 34 I think it is indesputable that Soriano is more productive than Walker in almost every offensive facet ot the game. The only edge Todd has is OBP - and we can see how much that has helped his production vs. Soriano.[/u]

I would. Walker's been one of my favorite players the past few years but I'll take the guy who can go 40/100 while scoring 120 runs in a heartbeat.

Teams like Texas probably do.

You took the words right out of my mouth - Give em' back J/K. All goid points.

I wouldn't mind it seeing as Mitre and Wellemeyer don't really fit into our plans and much as i like Pinto - it means we keep Hill. That deal probably would include others from the Rangers side - Delucci or Mench would be nice - but one of their pen arms would be good too. I would expect that they'd definitely include prospects though.

If we gave up a very good prospect like Hill along with some other pitchers and took back Milton in return - they would be open to trading anyone. I think O'Brian is just posturing right now to get the best value possible. Can you blame him? They don't have to trade Dunn now - but to get the best value for him possible they shouldn't wait until the offseason.

You do realize the Cubs have the 7th fewest strikeouts in all of baseball, right? Striking out too much is not the problem. BUT DUNN STRIKES OUT ALOTT!!!!!1111one Actually what people don't know is that we WALK less than any team in MLB and we have the FEWEST pitches per plate appearance. But since he strikes out too much he stinks and can't help us. Oh, wait.................. Exactly. Which is why he would be an awesome fit for us. Great power. Great eye. Wonderfull OBP. I'd be so so sososososoososo happy if we got him. Me too. I get happy just hearing his name in the same sentence as the word "Cubs".

You do realize the Cubs have the 7th fewest strikeouts in all of baseball, right? Striking out too much is not the problem. BUT DUNN STRIKES OUT ALOTT!!!!!1111one Actually what people don't know is that we WALK less than any team in MLB and we have the FEWEST pitches per plate appearance. But since he strikes out too much he stinks and can't help us. Oh, wait.................. The Cubs are 29th in MLB for Pitches per plate appearance & 27th for Walks per plate appearance. Adam Dunn is 3rd in MLB in walks. He's 4th in MLB for BB/Plate appearance. He's also 4th in MLB for pitches per plate appearance. I think it's pretty safe to say he'd help us in the 3 hole with Lee, Ramirez and Burnitz behind him.

You do realize the Cubs have the 7th fewest strikeouts in all of baseball, right? Striking out too much is not the problem. BUT DUNN STRIKES OUT ALOTT!!!!!1111one Actually what people don't know is that we WALK less than any team in MLB and we have the FEWEST pitches per plate appearance. But since he strikes out too much he stinks and can't help us. Oh, wait..................

Adam Dunn stinks, he strikes out too much. :lol:

The Twins are scouting the Giants - presumably for Edgardo Alfonzo or Ray Durham. This could be their backup plan for Soriano. From Rotoworld:

Hairston might get dealt. (I think Levine had said he would possibly go in a move if we acquire a centerfielder.) So if Gerut or Burnitz start in center, there may be reason to speculate. EDIT: Of course if Macias is there - it's probably just a bone-headed dusty move. EDIT #2: Actually I think Levine said a 2B would go in a deal for a CF like Lawton or Roberts. So to agree with Crowes - it could be Walker too.

ESPN Classic has it and following the ceremony is the Sandberg/Sutter game. At least I think its that game. It says 1984: Cubs vs. Cardinals. Apparently the Sandberg game is supposed to be on Comcast Sports Net, but its not on my DirecTV lineup.

Apparently the Pirates are shopping him. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05212/546566.stm http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/pirateslive/s_358855.html EDIT: I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a clause, but he has said in the past that he'll refuse to play for teams he doesn't want to be on. I'm not sure there are too many teams that would be less desirable to play for than the Bucs. They've got a nice park though.

How would everyone feel about getting Jose Mesa? We might not need as much help in the pen with Wood and Williamson coming in, but I'd prefer to have Mesa come to the Cubs so that he could be our actual setup man. As much as I like Weurtz and Novoa - this is no time to take chances. Woody or Williamson could eventually take the setup job but you can never have too many bullpen arms. We could probably get him for a couple of our less desirable prospects and that would allow us to send Weurtz back down to get it back together.

Baseball Prospectus Update:

Any package that includes Hill for Soriano isn't a good one, IMO - not when we already have Walker at 2B and Murton in LF. Hill's currently in OUR rotation for cripes sakes! I guess we could move either Mitre or Rusch into the 5th spot, if either are still here after all the dealing is done, but I still don't want to give up Hill for a positional player that we already have an adequate one for. Now if Hill were required to make a trade for Manny go through....... that would take some thinking. I'd consider Hill, Walker & Rusch for Soriano, Mench & a prospect. EDIT: Of course this means we'd have to go to a four man rotation...Okay so that deal needs some work. Instead of Rusch give em Mitre.

I'm expecting Millwood and Moyer to find new homes. EDIT: D'oh!!! BigBadB beat me to that one.

That's a much more detailed version of something I daydreamed about earlier. Of course I've probably tried everything in my power to make Manny a Cub and so far nothing has worked yet. I'm sorry if I let you guys down.

They better stay away from Blanco!