ThePenguin11

Holy crap! Burnitz is playing centerfield and Gerut is leading off! Not at all what I was expecting.

Yeah, um I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but do you guys think that the Cubs could get Dunn from the Reds? I know he strikes out a lot but we could use a good LF in our lineup. :twisted: Sorry, someone had to be that guy today, might as well be me.

And what about that head, it's freakin' huge - like a watermelon on a toothpick!

The Reds have clearly been operating with no sense of reality when it comes to their demands for Adam Dunn. Assuming they've shopped around the league quite a bit already it's well within the realm of possibility they've lowered their asking price to something more reasonable. As to Hill being a fly ball pitcher, being a fly ball pitcher didn't stop them from signing Eric Milton. Don't assume they're smart enough to have learned their lesson. Hill had only allowed 14 HR through his first 220 IP, just for the record. I'm not a big believer of Hill and would gladly send him off for Dunn, but just thought that it should be pointed out. He seems to be a ground ball pitcher from what I've seen, although his fastball will be flyin' all over the place if he can't find a way to get it to move. I'm probably in the minority in my belief that he'll be most successful as a relief specialist. As a starter I can only see him as a flash in the pan. Guys with a great curveball alone seem to show short streaks of brilliance and then hurt you in the long run. Zito and Estes are two recent examples. Granted Zito's dominance was sustained over a pretty good amount of time, but it has caught up with him. To be a great starter who has a dominant curve I think you need to have other great complements - ala Roy Oswalt, Darryl Kyle and Matt Morris. I just see Hill's career turning into a 'grease fire' more than a 'flash in the pan' if given the responsibility of pitching for 6-7 innings every time out. If I'm wrong then good for him (and the Cubs if it happens in Chicago), but I wouldn't regard him as untouchable. I would however entertain any offers for above average Major League talent and any position of need.

Okay, I've finally gotten through this thread and this is what I'm coming up with. I think if anything, Gerut was brought in because Dusty and Hendry were done with Dubois. Gerut was probably brought in as an extra outfielder. I think what we might be missing here is that the Cubs may be looking to move Murton for a bigger deal. I'm thinking that Hendry might have been getting a lot of calls lately for Murton and noone, including the Cubs was looking to take on Dubois. The other possibility is that Burnitz could be going to a contender but I'm not sure how that would help us.

Yeah, but what about Kearns then? I heard he might be available since the Reds demoted him to the minors...

Yeah, but how do you really feel, at this stage?

Juan Pierre = Neifi Perez Felix Pie = Ronny Cedeno Yeah....what? I think its an analogy. Because those values are far from equivilent. I think he meant: Juan Pierre : Neifi Perez as Felix Pie : Ronny Cedeno

how is this any different from perennial gold glove winner jim edmonds? he just fakes slow reaction skills so he can dive - if he can win a gold glove like that, why can't patterson? Edmonds makes the plays. Corey doesn't get to every play because he's too slow in reacting. At least Edmonds still makes all of the catches. corey still makes plenty of plays. you're underrating him. Is that even possible?

In defense of Edmonds - whom I hate BTW - he is 35 years old and still plays better than Corey in the field has ever shown.

how is this any different from perennial gold glove winner jim edmonds? he just fakes slow reaction skills so he can dive - if he can win a gold glove like that, why can't patterson? Edmonds makes the plays. Corey doesn't get to every play because he's too slow in reacting. At least Edmonds still makes all of the catches.

Despite what that report(many of which have proved to be less than reliable previously) says, Wells doesn't hit a lot of line drives, as evidenced by his 16.5 LD% this year. I don't know why you bolded that part about defense. Wells is a fine fielder, but Patterson isn't bad at all. Patterson isn't anywhere close to being a gold-glover. I highlighted the part about him being a smart fielder with a good first jump. Patterson has slow reaction skills (instincts) and although he's not a bad fielder, his speed gets him out of an awful lot of trouble.

He's the anti-Corey: Baserunning & Defense Wells could steal more bases, but that's not part of the Blue Jays' modus operandi. When healthy, he is aggressive and quick to take the extra base. Wells' first Gold Glove in 2004 solidified his reputation among baseball people as a premier defender. Quick enough to make up for mistakes and fearless at the wall, Wells' first step is almost always the right one. He has improved his physical fitness markedly since deciding before the 2003 season to spend some offseason time at a Scottsdale-based fitness facility used by professional athletes. Hitting Wells is a prototypical line-drive gap hitter who feeds off low fastballs and mistake breaking pitches. He also has spurts of impatience at the plate. The Blue Jays stress working the pitcher and on-base percentage, but many in the organization believe Wells would be a less-effective hitter if he cuts down on his natural aggressiveness. Mechanically, the Blue Jays have noticed that Wells opens up with his front foot at times, which causes him to pull off the ball and drag his bat through the strike zone. Wells is a smart player all-around, and that translates to his approach to hitting, as he studies opposing pitchers' routines.

Come on. Patterson for Vernon Wells? Done. Done Yesterday. Wells is twice the player Patterson is and has proven it over the past four years. No question. Done. No tradebacks!

what's so funny I'm not sure what the comparison was but two-base, three-base and four-base hits are all better then walks. Singles still edge out walks because they can score a base runner from second, third and sometimes first. Like when Hector Villanueva hits a gapper and Dunston's on first. Dunn's SLG% suggests that 2-base, 3-base, and 4-base hits aren't a problem for him though. Yes doctor, I concur.

This is true. Hit>Walk>Out>Double Play There's probably room for a sacrifice fly in there, but my brain hurts from all this math!!!!!!!!!

This is true. Hit>Walk>Out>Double Play

what's so funny I'm not sure what the comparison was but two-base, three-base and four-base hits are all better then walks. Singles still edge out walks because they can score a base runner from second, third and sometimes first. Like when Hector Villanueva hits a gapper and Dunston's on first.

I shouldn't need to be restated, but: Sheffield will not be traded by the Yankees. If by some miracle he did accept a trade it would probably be to put an extra $3 Million dollars in his pocket this year. Not to be harsh - I got hammered for it the last time we talked about Sheff. Then Sheffield came out firing about how there was no way in hell he was leaving.

That's just something that GM's say when they're trying to stay under the radar. The Cardinals were supposedly out of money the last few years and have brought in some major stars after saying the same thing. Plus it protects the GM from looking desperate. It's an approach Jim Hendry could use if we weren't so freaking desparate to get back into the WC race.

I wonder if it was one of those majestic Duane Kuiper shots. I'll check with Steve Stone for that information...

My conclusion, Patterson deserves some of the blame. That was the purpose of this thread to decide whether or not he deserves any blame. He shouldn't shoulder it all. The bullpen deserves just as much as he does, but to argue that any other player that plays every day deserves to be critized and/or blamed for the teams mishaps is unjust. Neifi was all we had to work with, we now know he stinks. When he was called upon to step up, he did. He came back down to earth and the lightning left the bottle. The difference was that no one had expectations for him to be a major contributor as a stopgap injury fix. I don't blame Dusty for waiting on Cedeno as he couldn't take the chance that he was just a flash in the pan. However, I will blame him if he doesn't give him a fair opportunity to take the SS job until Nomar gets back. And a sidenote: I'm not sure if anyone thought I was trying to say that all blame should lie with Patterson, my thoughts were that he can't go blameless for his lack of production and stubborness to improve his game.

I don't recall Barrett, Burnitz, or Walker "carrying a team" for any stretch this year. That's a ridiculous way to determine anything, completely based on each individual's recollection of events Barrett and Burnitz never really hurt the team either. Burnitz has never really slumped and produced all year long. Barrett despite not having a great year was terriffic defensively at the beginning, throwing out a bunch of attempted basestealers, as I pointed out before. He'd probably have kept it up if not for an ailing shoulder. Neither has been a player that is hurting the lineup. So you can call it ridiculous, but the point that you can't debate is that despite maybe three good defensive plays and two meaningful home runs, he's been awful consistently. I'll let Fred dredge up the stats for you if he feels like it, but suffice to say that Barrett and Burnitz, just like every player not named Pujols or Bonds, have gone through a streak where they've been cold and have hurt the team. That's not the point. The point is that we can actually recall on one hand the times that Corey Patterson helped this team in 2005. Don't you see how ridiculous that is? Oh, thats the point now? Seems to me your "point" keeps changing. Myself and others have been pointing out a lot of explanations to why Corey Patterson holds more blame than anyone else on this team, sans relief pitching. Since then, there has been no real empirical evidence to point to the opposite. To defend Patterson makes you look like an apologist. We can blame Baker, of course, which i do...But also blame has to lie with the players and to a man, Patterson stands out above all.

One thing that I will give to Patterson is that in the month of April he did manage to score 18 Runs. The downside is that he had only 2 doubles while striking out 19 times and took walks exactly twice. It would be fair to say he was helpful to the team on one hand, on the other you could say that his lack of discipline at the plate cost the Cubs on even more run scoring potential by being impatient.

I don't recall Barrett, Burnitz, or Walker "carrying a team" for any stretch this year. That's a ridiculous way to determine anything, completely based on each individual's recollection of events Barrett and Burnitz never really hurt the team either. Burnitz has never really slumped and produced all year long. Barrett despite not having a great year was terriffic defensively at the beginning, throwing out a bunch of attempted basestealers, as I pointed out before. He'd probably have kept it up if not for an ailing shoulder. Neither has been a player that is hurting the lineup. So you can call it ridiculous, but the point that you can't debate is that despite maybe three good defensive plays and two meaningful home runs, he's been awful consistently. I'll let Fred dredge up the stats for you if he feels like it, but suffice to say that Barrett and Burnitz, just like every player not named Pujols or Bonds, have gone through a streak where they've been cold and have hurt the team. That's not the point. The point is that we can actually recall on one hand the times that Corey Patterson helped this team in 2005. Don't you see how ridiculous that is?