BigbadB

They were killed in separate accidents (Baxter in 2001, Darr in 2002). An A's prospect was killed in the same accident as Baxter. The other person killed with Darr was not a player (although a Padres minor leaguer, Ben Howard, was injured). Ahh. That's right. Thanks for the correction. What a relief that I at least got the names right. :-k

If Baker is "open to a lot of stuff", I suppose requiring a decent OBP to hit at the top of the order is asking for a bit too much. :roll:

I doubt it's the first time Corey has heard of a sports shrink. A-Rod was seeing one earlier this year.

I believe Gerik Baxter was the prospect that died in the Mike Darr car accident about 3-4 years ago. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

The Cubs would have 4 there if they included a manager. :P

I could see it, but Colorado would be stupid to pay him much of anything. Sammy at $5m playing in Coors (start every home game, and half the away games) would be an interesting investment for that squad. I wasn't referring to Colorado giving him big money. He'd be a nice draw at the ball park as he chased 600. It's whether Sammy could bite off a chunk of pride and except a low base salary with incentives. Who else will be interested? How much will they be willing to pay? The NL West is a horrible division right now. Colorado had a somewhat down year from Helton, Barmes was hurt for a good portion of the season, Atkins has a year under his belt now. Add a veteran bat here and there (RF, 2nd and C) and they have an opportunity to leap frog over a couple of teams next year.

It saddens me to see Baker eulogize a player who is still in uniform. Is this "breaking news" going to turn Corey around? If anything, it only makes matters worse. What's even worse is if anyone on this team needs a trip to a psychologist, it's Baker himself. To have such a love affair with horrible OBP at the top of the batting order is not healthy at all. It would be nice to see someone turn the tables on Baker and suggest he get mental counseling for this blatantly obvious flaw.

The lineups stunk this year; however, I think you're underestimating just how poor our starting pitching and bullpen were for many parts of the season. I don't think he is underestimating how poor the starting pitching and bullpen have been. A one game swing from the loss column to the win column has the team at .500. A two game swing from the loss column to the win column has the team with a winning record. I don't think it's out of the scope of reality that the Cubs could have won 2 more games with quality OBP guys at the top of the order. I don't think it's out of the scope of reality that they could have won 10 more games with productive OBP guys hitting in front of Derrek Lee all year. Fair enough. I just think there were games this year that we won where we should've lost and definitely vice-versa. I'm just saying even with the crappy lineups that Baker trotted out there, there were many games that we had the lead in the seventh inning or later that the bullpen gave up. And I don't disagree that there were games we won that we should have lost. However, for every game they won and should have lost, there were other games that we had no chance of winning because of who they had hitting at the top of the order. Every team will win games they should have lost. Every team will lose games they should have won. It's not those games that determine the final standings. It's winning the close games. It's making the most use of your line up. The Cubs didn't do that this year. They assembled line ups that virtually made them no better than a .500 team. As bad as the bullpen has been this year, a decent line up card might have helped this team make the playoffs. I don't give Baker a whole lot of credit for how bad the bullpen has been, but he certainly played a part in that as well. Neifi Perez and his below .300 OBP had the equivilent of a half a season's worth of at bats in the top half of the order this year. Add in other poor OBP guys (Patterson, Macias, Enrique Wilson), and you're closer to a full season of crap top of the order hitters, dragging down the team. And what's worse about this than anything else, there were TRUE options to hit there and do much better. Cedeno, Murton, Walker and Hairston are 4 guys who have good OBP's at the top of the order. Nomar would be a 5th candidate, but I really prefer his AVG and OPS in the 5th or 6th spot.

The lineups stunk this year; however, I think you're underestimating just how poor our starting pitching and bullpen were for many parts of the season. I don't think he is underestimating how poor the starting pitching and bullpen have been. A one game swing from the loss column to the win column has the team at .500. A two game swing from the loss column to the win column has the team with a winning record. I don't think it's out of the scope of reality that the Cubs could have won 2 more games with quality OBP guys at the top of the order. I don't think it's out of the scope of reality that they could have won 10 more games with productive OBP guys hitting in front of Derrek Lee all year.

I agree.

I think he'd be a great fit in Colorado. He's chasing 600 HR's and that's a park he could hit some home runs. They could sign him on the cheap, and they have the money to do it with Hampton now coming off the books and all those other bad contracts gone. They have a good nucleus of talent working their way onto the roster. A veteran bat who plays part time seems like a good way for Sammy to go out. Pitches don't break as well in Colorado and he would probably increase his contact there.

Exactly. I wasn't making that statement to be mean or comical. I honestly believe that's the intention. However, I don't know how anyone could come to the conclusion that earning a winning record on the last day of the season will all of a sudden turn what has been a horrible season, in my eyes, into a successful season. You already know my opinion about that last sentence you wrote, so I'll spare yet another rant.

Walker runs circles around Neifi offensively. Circles. Neifi has 150 more at bats than Walker, and Walker has more XBH's, nearly as many runs scored, and would probably easily eclipse him in RBI's given the same amount of at bats. It's not even close. Add in the fact that Walker has had to hit directly behind Neifi most of the year. How is he supposed to get a big game winning hit when the guy in front of him (Neifi) just hit into another one of his umpteen double plays. You can watch the games everyday or you can review the stats. The stats are a permanent record of how they performed. I watched games and reviewed the stats. The stats pretty much support what I watched all year. I'll go on record and state that if Neifi Perez is leading off for this team next year, they will NOT be in the playoffs again next year. Book it! If Walker leads off next year, I think they have a shot.

I honestly believe Baker is sending those guys in there everyday thinking that the veteran leadership they provide (in his eyes anyway) will help him finish the year with a winning record. Which of course, would look good on HIS resume'.

:cheers:

I don't know. Did we? Until Neifi is hitting at the bottom of the order where he belongs, I'm not watching.

I believe he's checked himself into a mental facility for depression from batting directly behind Neifi Perez day after day. :P

And I agree with this. You have to take advantage of your opportunity to play and prove that you belong out there. You have to adapt to strengthen your weaknesses so that your weakness isn't exposed to the point it outweighs your production, therefore rendering you as replaceable. I agree that he played a major role in this. It saddens me that he wasn't the answer to our long time centerfield problems. I really hoped he was and I hope he eventually gets it figured out. Preferably as a Cub.

I will also add that Corey was rushed too quickly to the majors. He may not have been considered rushed if the right type of management was in charge of the team, but Baylor jerked Corey around and wasted valuable time of his development sitting on the Cubs bench day after day. If when the Cubs brought him up, they inserted him into the line up and left him alone out there and let him play everyday, we might have a totally different ballplayer in Corey Patterson. Instead, Corey got a start here, sat for a week and got a pinch hit at bat. While he was sitting on the bench, future hall of famers Damon Buford and Gary Matthews Jr. got the bulk of the playing time in centerfield.

I don't think you can simply state that Corey was brought up to the majors to be a lead off hitter. They have tried him out all over the place. I can't see the numbers for 2000 or 2001, but in 2002, Corey had nearly an equal amount of at bats at lead off, #2 and #6 in the order. He didn't excel in any of those spots, sporting poor OBP's and poor OPS's. In 2003, Corey's dominant positions in the batting order prior to his season ending injury was in the #3 spot and the #6 spot. Not so productive as a #3 hitter, but improvement in the 6 slot. In 2004, he had more lead off at bats than in any other slot, followed closely by the #2 slot and then 116 at bats in the 7 slot. He had great numbers in the 7 slot, but average to below average in the top two slots. In 2005, he had the most at bats once again in the lead off spot, but a proportionately equal amount in just about all of the other 7 slots in the order (excluding the pitcher's slot). As we all know, he was bad as a lead off hitter, although not much worse than Neifi Perez. Dusty Baker has this illusion that speedy guys or guys who have no clue how to draw a walk should be rewarded by having their name called by the PA announcer before any other Cub hitter in the first inning of a baseball game. I do not know many other people who have this same philosophy when it comes to assembling the line up card. Typically, someone with this philosophy has poor results which costs them their job after a short period of time. I can't prove it, but I believe only Dusty Baker really thought Corey should lead off. I believe this because I also happen to believe that only Dusty Baker believes Neifi Perez should be leading off. Same idiotic thought process, same results. I don't think Corey likes batting 7th or 8th in the line up. Given the choice of batting 1st or 7th or 8th, I think he preferred hitting lead off, therefore the suggestion to Baker that he give leading off a try once again. I believe Corey's preference would be 3rd-5th, but the results haven't been good enough to put him there and leave him there. Corey's plate discipline would never allow me to put him in the heart of the batting order, and Dusty apparently agrees with that philosophy. That's about all we agree on. Anyway, looking over Corey's career, the Cubs probably preferred Corey to be a Rickey Henderson type lead off hitter and realistically, Corey is nothing like Rickey Henderson. They possess the same type of speed and the same kind of power, but after that, the comparisons end. Corey doesn't have plate discipline or plate patience. He is a pull hitter. To me, the biggest strikes against the argument of whether someone is capable of leading off is plate discipline and the ability to use the entire field. It was wrong to try to convert Corey into a lead off hitter. But, the Cubs are not guilty of strictly attempting to make him a lead off hitter. I think it was the lack of having a lead off hitter that made them decide it was worth an attempt to find Corey's niche, which was preferably at the top of the order. It didn't work. But, neither does batting Neifi Perez there, either. Management is pulling down their pants and showing everyone their true ability to assemble a line up. Corey is just a victim of this poor judgment by management. I also think Corey is a victim of not being left alone to try to develop into the player Corey should be. At this point, I don't think he even knows what kind of player he was supposed to develop into.

I despise the man so much that I believe it affects my opinion of his playing abilities. I despise the man so much that I believe that it creates a higher level of belief that he's guilty of steroid usage. It's because of this that I can't list him in my top 10 great players of all time. Biases aside, he's probably the best to ever play the game. What I believe he could have done to pitching in the eras that the other great hitters of the game had the opportunity to face, I believe Barry probably would have had even sicker overall numbers. He can turn on the fastest of fastballs. He can adjust to the best curveballs and off speed pitches. But, his late blooming oversized melon that constantly spews forth nothing but disrespect for the game I love makes it easy for me to simply exclude him from any "greatest" player in the game lists I create. If he were traded to the Cubs this offseason, I'd probably completely change my tune, and I'd all of a sudden feel compassion for all the heat that gets put on him on a daily basis. Since he's still a Giant, I have nothing more to say. :D

Omg Choi's not producing? Have you seen his ops??? :wink: Seriously though LA makes lots of sense. However, Giles may take precedence over Delgado due to Lowell being added. Did you have to introduce your sarcasm here? Aren't enough threads polluted with that argument already? Back to the point. I could see them going after Giles, but they will have money to spend on more than one position this offseason, especially if they trade Bradley. Lowell's had an enormously disappointing season. But he's not necessarily washed up. He might be worth a flier for the Dodgers while they wait for LaRoche or Guzman to take over third base. Not sure why you need to pick me out here when there's so many other's who are guilty of sarcasm. Perhaps if I ripped Neifi or Baker it would be ok. *shrug* Baker and Neifi are currently in season. :D

If it makes you feel any better, Baylor never angered me as much as Dusty has. But, I wouldn't welcome him back either. The sad thing for me is that I was supportive of the hiring of Dusty. I guess that's what I get for not really knowing that much about his coaching philosophies. But, I cannot support the blind blindly following the blind.

Nothing like a loss after a player meeting. I guess he doesn't inspire them as much as people think.... I'm sure Murton got a nice lecture about his base running gaff the other night.... Neifi probably didn't have to attend since he's Dusty's lead off hitter.... More or less, I'm guessing that Baker will do anything and everything to salvage a winning season for his own personal selfish reasons. The fact the team (as he assembles it) wouldn't make it with the way they were playing forced him to sit down with the team and inspire them to make it happen. After all, if Baker can guide this team to a 82-80 record by season's end, he will be able to once again use "but we had a winning record" to blow off the important questions like "what are you going to do to improve this horrible team?". When it's time for his next job, he'll want to put 3 straight winning season's with one of the losingest major league franchises on his resume'. I think that's his only real inspiration. Unfortunately for Dusty, I think his plan will backfire. Mainly because his refusal to acknowledge that his own philosophies on managing a baseball team are making it impossible for this team to finish with a winning record.

It certainly was nice to see that after an organizational meeting, Neifi Perez is still leading off. Obviously, the most glaringly obvious of issues with what is wrong with this team was not discussed.