BigbadB

If all they wanted was speed at the top, they could've stuck with Patterson in the leadoff role. In 2005, Patterson got in 18 games (3rd most on the team) as the #2 hitter .179/.220 and 32 games (2nd most on the team) as the lead off hitter .211/.263. If he hit .275 AVG (not OBP), I'm not so sure he ever would have lost that job. This team doesn't focus on OBP. They focus on speed and contact at the top of the order. Patterson got 441 out of 631 total at bats as the lead off hitter or #2 hitter in 2004. That's more than 2/3 of a season. Bellhorn was one of the best OBP guys to lead off that this team has seen in the 2000's. The day Baker took over, Bellhorn lost that job. He neither had speed or contact. He was all about OBP. Patterson has been in and out of games for the Cubs since 2000. He has a career .293 OBP. I rest my case.

People want to address obp yet bring back one of the biggest obp killers. If Nomar goes down again, the Cubs are stuck w/ a backup again. Yes, Cedeno could be alright, but as goony says, there's no guarantee of that. Who is the OBP killer you are talking about? The guy who posted an obp of .000 for 100 games this year. Let him go to LA and sit on their DL. Bonds had an OBP of .000 during that same stretch last year. I'd take him and Nomar next year. I'll take that gamble. I'll remember this discussion. If you're right I'll applaud you @ the end of next year. If wrong, I'll give you a some Dusty treatment. :) I take it you spend a lot of time @ Barona. ;) Never been there. Drove by it on my way through Cuyamaca National Park, but that's the closest I've been. I do my gambling in Vegas. :wink: But, I'm not the gambler you think I am. I personally see letting Nomar walk and gambling you can get Furcal as an even bigger gamble than Nomar possibly getting injured again next year. I'm not willing to gamble that Nomar walks, Furcal stays in Atlanta and Cedeno or Neifi is our everyday shortstop. That's the gamble I won't take.

Atlanta's farm system could be 17 light years ahead of the Cubs. What does that have to do with starting Cedeno over a crap veteran player? Dusty's philosophy is that rookies don't deserve to just step right in and produce. They have to take their lumps sitting on the bench and if they can produce in spot duty (which hardly few people can), then they can have another start. If they fail in that start, it's an I told you so. Cox gives those guys the opportunity to succeed. If he did it Dusty Baker's way, the Braves would have finished in 2nd place or worse running the horrible Raul Mondesi and Brian Jordan out there everyday.

Stop gaps and getting guys on the cheap is not the only way you can really screw up a team. Bad trades, releasing guys that shouldn't be released, devaluing players through the media, putting all your marbles in one sack, etc.....are other ways you can get in trouble. Nomar wants to be a Cub. He has already proven he would sign an incentive laden deal. If he gets hurt, he doesn't reach his incentives. Period. No real loss. I also said I'd be fine with going after Furcal. But, Giles needs to be the #1 priority.

People want to address obp yet bring back one of the biggest obp killers. If Nomar goes down again, the Cubs are stuck w/ a backup again. Yes, Cedeno could be alright, but as goony says, there's no guarantee of that. Who is the OBP killer you are talking about? The guy who posted an obp of .000 for 100 games this year. Let him go to LA and sit on their DL. Bonds had an OBP of .000 during that same stretch last year. I'd take him and Nomar next year. I'll take that gamble.

Lawton bombed, but as bad as he bombed as the Cubs lead off hitter, he wasn't any worse than Patterson, Perez and Macias. Between the 4, they had OBP's of .263, .263, .269 and .270. Lawton had the .269. This horrible combination accounted for 354 at bats in the lead off spot. The only thing that salvaged what might have been the all time worst OBP from a lead off spot from any team in the history of baseball was Jerry Hairston Jr. The Cubs waited too long to try and do something about the glaring hole at the top of the line up. What's worse is they had in house candidates that either sat on the bench or played at the bottom. I applauded the effort to fix the problem in going after Lawton, but they were basically already done by that point anyway. When Lawton didn't work out, they could have kept searching (Murton, Murton, Murton), but went back to has beens and never was's in Perez and Macias. Perhaps Murton was better off batting 6th and 7th. There's not as much pressure as batting 2nd. Perhaps you just like to argue for no particular reason. Check Murton's OBP when hitting at the top of the order. He didn't get many at bats, but the few he did were WAY, WAY, WAY better than Neifi, Macias, Lawton and Patterson. Also, look at how well Neifi does at the bottom of the order. Some people are just better suited to hit at the top of the order and others are better suited to hit at the bottom. It's a manager's job to find each guys niche. Most of Dusty's homework was already done for him, however. Neifi has never been a good candidate to hit at the top of the order. Yet, he did it anyway. Our best lead off option never hit lead off all year. Todd Walker. He had 2 lead off at bats in 2005, compared to 100 in the 6 hole. I don't mind you wishing to argue with me, as it helps me further my point. But, some of these arguments are getting a bit lame. You can either show some patience at the plate or you can't. Murton can, Neifi can't. By that deduction alone, Murton is a better candidate to hit at the top of the order. Period! Just to point out how wrong you are about how much more difficult it is for a rookie to hit at the top of the order, Cedeno got 24 at bats in the 2 hole this year, and he hit .292 with a .346 OBP. Once again, way better than Macias, Neifi, Patterson or Lawton. Was Dusty so magical that he could pick the spots that these guys would succeed? If he were that magical, why did this team suck so bad last year? He had his opportunities to try something new (like giving the rookies more top of the order at bats for Lee), but Cedeno and Murton were slid aside for the wonderfully talented at nothing, Jose Macias. PERHAPS, I'm just more willing to give Baker & Hendry the benefit of the doubt from time to time. They've been around the game for a long time. I'm just a mere armchair coach. I know it's in vogue to rip Baker for everything, but I respect that he played the game, and maybe it is a good idea not to throw a prospect into the deep end of the pool. Perhaps it's a good idea for Baker to watch and learn how Bobby Cox threw all 17 of his rookies last year into the deep end of the pool, on their way to another 1st place finish. Different coaching philosophies. One worked quite well. One doesn't. One even has the opportunity to CORRECT his flawed thinking after the 3rd or 4th day in a row of 1-8 .125 OBP from the top two spots in the line up (Macias/Perez) while Lee went 4-4 again. I've made mistakes a 2nd or 3rd time before. I'm human. But, he does them over and over and sits there scratching his head wondering what the problem is. THE PROBLEM IS LETTING BAD HITTERS HIT.

I think it means "dude, we need more speed at the top of the line up", get Alex Sanchez on the phone. Unfortunately, I'm being serious at this point. It's not the OBP they think they need at the top of the line up, but rather speed. Someone please dig up at least one article that discusses that they know they need a better OBP at the top of the line up setting up the best hitters. I don't think you will find one.

People want to address obp yet bring back one of the biggest obp killers. If Nomar goes down again, the Cubs are stuck w/ a backup again. Yes, Cedeno could be alright, but as goony says, there's no guarantee of that. "If" Nomar goes down. "If" Furcal blows out an achilles tendon rounding 1st trying to stretch a single into a double, we'll be stuck with Cedeno as a back up. Hey, I'm in favor of getting Furcal AND Nomar, and keeping Cedeno as well. Every team in baseball doesn't have a star player backing up their starting star player. Not going to happen. Nomar is an injury risk. But, because he's an injury risk, he'll come cheaper, for less years and can provide + offensive potential for the dollar. It's worth the risk. Furcal will cost you bigger dollars, longer years and he could just as easily turn into a long term injury risk. How often did Nomar get injured early in his career? Nomar, an OBP killer? That's a new one. The guy has twice finished a season with an OBP OVER .400. He typically finishes a season with a higher AVG than many peoples (like Macias/Perez) OBP. Come on.

Lawton bombed, but as bad as he bombed as the Cubs lead off hitter, he wasn't any worse than Patterson, Perez and Macias. Between the 4, they had OBP's of .263, .263, .269 and .270. Lawton had the .269. This horrible combination accounted for 354 at bats in the lead off spot. The only thing that salvaged what might have been the all time worst OBP from a lead off spot from any team in the history of baseball was Jerry Hairston Jr. The Cubs waited too long to try and do something about the glaring hole at the top of the line up. What's worse is they had in house candidates that either sat on the bench or played at the bottom. I applauded the effort to fix the problem in going after Lawton, but they were basically already done by that point anyway. When Lawton didn't work out, they could have kept searching (Murton, Murton, Murton), but went back to has beens and never was's in Perez and Macias. Perhaps Murton was better off batting 6th and 7th. There's not as much pressure as batting 2nd. Perhaps you just like to argue for no particular reason. Check Murton's OBP when hitting at the top of the order. He didn't get many at bats, but the few he did were WAY, WAY, WAY better than Neifi, Macias, Lawton and Patterson. Also, look at how well Neifi does at the bottom of the order. Some people are just better suited to hit at the top of the order and others are better suited to hit at the bottom. It's a manager's job to find each guys niche. Most of Dusty's homework was already done for him, however. Neifi has never been a good candidate to hit at the top of the order. Yet, he did it anyway. Our best lead off option never hit lead off all year. Todd Walker. He had 2 lead off at bats in 2005, compared to 100 in the 6 hole. I don't mind you wishing to argue with me, as it helps me further my point. But, some of these arguments are getting a bit lame. You can either show some patience at the plate or you can't. Murton can, Neifi can't. By that deduction alone, Murton is a better candidate to hit at the top of the order. Period! Just to point out how wrong you are about how much more difficult it is for a rookie to hit at the top of the order, Cedeno got 24 at bats in the 2 hole this year, and he hit .292 with a .346 OBP. Once again, way better than Macias, Neifi, Patterson or Lawton. Was Dusty so magical that he could pick the spots that these guys would succeed? If he were that magical, why did this team suck so bad last year? He had his opportunities to try something new (like giving the rookies more top of the order at bats for Lee), but Cedeno and Murton were slid aside for the wonderfully talented at nothing, Jose Macias.

It's not just the coaching decision. Everyday that I open up ESPN Insider, I have to read these two quotes about Nomar: "Chicago is where I want to be and I hope they see that. Meanwhile, it doesn't appear as though the Cubs will entertain bringing him back". Rumors are they want a better defender at 2nd base, which in my opinion will also likely mean that they will sacrifice offense for defense. I don't like this either.

I'm criticizing the length of time he takes to make a decision. He's now over 365 days late in cutting Jose Macias. :D

But, he is sitting back quietly with his cards close to his vest as the world slips right on by......... Actually, in this case he should be criticized for moving too fast, right? Didn't he re-sign Rothschild before it came out that Mazzone was available? If he had held his cards tight, he would have been more able to jump on this. But because he did what everyone is clamoring for -- moving fast -- he missed this opportunity. Be careful what you ask for. Well, I want him to work fast to improve the players on the team. He had no intention of replacing the coaching staff, which to me is a problem. Had he gotten rid of the coaching staff, there would have been a nice opening for a new pitching coach. Somehow, the Yankees found it possible to make time to contact the Braves to get permission to talk to Mazzone. What was Hendry doing? He wasn't cutting Macias from the team. It doesn't appear as though he's working on getting Walker's option picked up. When's the last time he talked to Nomar?

But, he is sitting back quietly with his cards close to his vest as the world slips right on by.........

That's going to be a pretty tough gig in Baltimore. Facing two of the best offenses in baseball 34 games a year. Then you have Toronto who is looking to make a splash, and then you have Tampa who will soon bring up all those flashy hot hitting prospects. The Orioles might be expecting Atlanta Brave type success and I'm not so sure they'll get it.

Lawton bombed, but as bad as he bombed as the Cubs lead off hitter, he wasn't any worse than Patterson, Perez and Macias. Between the 4, they had OBP's of .263, .263, .269 and .270. Lawton had the .269. This horrible combination accounted for 354 at bats in the lead off spot. The only thing that salvaged what might have been the all time worst OBP from a lead off spot from any team in the history of baseball was Jerry Hairston Jr. The Cubs waited too long to try and do something about the glaring hole at the top of the line up. What's worse is they had in house candidates that either sat on the bench or played at the bottom. I applauded the effort to fix the problem in going after Lawton, but they were basically already done by that point anyway. When Lawton didn't work out, they could have kept searching (Murton, Murton, Murton), but went back to has beens and never was's in Perez and Macias.

Macias was horrible in 2004 for the Cubs. There is nothing in his bio that would convince anyone he is anything more than what was provided in 2004. He does NOTHING well. Why spend 800K on a guy who does nothing well? If you are going to waste a spot on your 25 man roster, at least use a guy who has SOMETHING he does well. ANYTHING! I'll bet I could go through just about every team in the majors this past year and find a bad bench player I would rather have than Macias. Why must we have the worst? .590 OPS last year. Fontenot had a better OPS than that, and he still hasn't recorded his first major league hit.

Let me rephrase my previous post. Jose F. Macias was protected on the 40 man roster last year and Andy Sisco was not. Jose Macias, he of the career .298 OBP. He, who can play several positions, but none well. He, who can do nothing better than Mike Fontenot, Ryan Theriot, Richard Lewis or some other 300K future bench guy. What is it about Jose Macias that garners such appreciation from Dusty and Hendry? His speed? Hasn't stolen more than 5 bases in a season since 2001. He's caught nearly as often as he is successful. Is it his power? In 2 seasons as a Cub, he has 4 homers. Is it his defense? Not exactly stellar career numbers at any position he's played. His average is horrible. Nothing is good about this guy. A guy like that should be bench fodder for the Washington Nationals, not the Cubs. Oh, we traded with the Nationals to get him? Oyyyyy. The Cubs have the money to spend on a decent bench player. In fact, they did spend decent money on a bench player last year. Macias. Unfortunately, they spent it on a BAD bench player, not a good bench player.

Where does haste come into play? It's a simple decision. Macias is a worthless baseball player. His presence on the team hurts the teams chances to win. Get rid of him. Burnitz's option is ridiculously overpriced, there's no good reason to bring him back next year. Decline the option. Walker at $2.5m is extremely valuable, pick up the option. Nomar is a nice option if he's cheap in terms of a guarantee, let it be known that you'd be interested in having him back. Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. Macias, Perez and Burnitz are all wasting extremely valuable 40 man roster space. Get rid of them now before you overlook them later and forget to protect someone of actual value. Do you really think Hendry would overlook players on his roster? You guys must think he's an idiot. Two words. Andy Sisco Fact: Andy Sisco was not protected last year and Jose Macias was. I'm just sayin'.

Where does haste come into play? It's a simple decision. Macias is a worthless baseball player. His presence on the team hurts the teams chances to win. Get rid of him. Burnitz's option is ridiculously overpriced, there's no good reason to bring him back next year. Decline the option. Walker at $2.5m is extremely valuable, pick up the option. Nomar is a nice option if he's cheap in terms of a guarantee, let it be known that you'd be interested in having him back. Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. Macias, Perez and Burnitz are all wasting extremely valuable 40 man roster space. Get rid of them now before you overlook them later and forget to protect someone of actual value.

Hurry? The season is over. Teams let go of dead weight when the season is over. A lot of teams have already made moves, declining options, picking up options, outrighting guys, firing coaches, hiring coaches, claiming players. A lot of dead weight is gone by this time of year. The problem is the Cubs think Macias has value, and they will keep him. They think Neifi Perez is fine for SS. They think Burnitz is a fine RF. They think the problem was health, luck, chemistry and attitude. They have failed to recognize the single biggest problem on this team for years, and not one major front office person has been replaced, nothing makes me think they finally understand the problem and are willing to fix it. Exactly. What's the hurry to send Neifi and Macias packing? They are wasting two spots on the 40 man roster. Theriot and Fontenot are as good or better of a combo of back up utility men and neither of those guys likely needs to be protected in the Rule 5 draft. They are much cheaper, shouldn't play that much to begin with and lessens Dusty's chances of replacing Cedeno or Murton (Burnitz in the OF) with a crap veteran. I also don't know how anyone can be comfortable with Cedeno as one of the starters when we have no real idea what kind of player he will be. He did pretty good last year, but what happens when the other NL teams get the "scouting book" on Cedeno? Expose his weakness. Will he still be a .300 guy, or will he be a .240 guy? You know what you have in Nomar and Walker, and Cedeno looks like a nice back up to a guy who might have another injury. Furcal is no guarantee, and he will be very pricey.

I like a lot of moves Hendry has made over the years. But, I dislike a lot of moves Hendry has made over the years. Signing Estes for the "need" of a lefty in the rotation and garnering any trade value Juan Cruz may have ever had as completely useless, was one of his all time worst. Picking up the obviously "you get what you ask for" Enrique Wilson instead of going with the "could be a pleastant surprise" Ronnie Cedeno ranks right up there as an all time worst. Sitting on their thumbs last season after informing everyone how worthless Sammy Sosa is and having to settle for Jeromy Burnitz as his replacement. It hasn't happened yet, but I certainly see Patterson being traded for a dozen nightcrawlers, which will not only fit this managements profile, but will also be a bad trade in the making. Hendry does play with his cards close to the vest. That can work in your favor sometimes. I don't think it works this offseason. I don't think you can simply let Nomar and Walker take a hike without 100% assurance that they can be replaced with better players. How does that happen? I think Neifi is kept around with the promise of lots of playing time as "Dusty's insurance" if they can't get Furcal. I just don't see any possible way that the Cubs let Walker and Nomar walk (as they seem to want to let happen) and let Neifi walk as well, leaving Cedeno as they only real possibility for 2 open spots in the infield. I about blew a gasket with the whole Burnitz thing last year. Not only that they had to settle for him, but that they had to outbid the Pittsburgh F. Pirates for his services. I'm not kidding either. Tim can vouge for my anger over that one. I've never been angrier. I want something to be optimistic about. I want to pick up a newspaper and read that the Cubs have every intention of improving OBP, signing the best player available at the position of need (Giles), etc.... I don't want to read "Nomar wants to come back", but Chicago doesn't want him back. I want to read that "Nomar wants to come back" and Chicago "wants him back" and they'll work on an incentive heavy/low base one year deal. I want to read that this team will not accept losing and that Baker's job is in serious jeopardy. I want to read that Dusty's coaching weaknesses outweigh his coaching strength's and he is being let go. I'm not giving up hope, but I'm very scared about the possibilities that this team wasted golden opportunities to be one of the better teams in baseball for a very long time.

I have heard the rumors of Hendry wanting to improve the 1-2 spots for Lee and Ramirez. While Furcal isn't great, he is an improvement. And then there's the Hoops' rumors of Castillo and Bradley that I like. There are some positive signs so far. The Cubs had Todd Walker for most of the year. He had zero lead off at bats. Matt Murton had 10 at bats in the top two spots in the order this year and had a wonderful OBP. Meanwhile, the Cubs finished the season with Macias and Perez 1/2. Furcal would be okay, though I'd rather have Giles. Cedeno could someday be better than Furcal offensively. But, the Cubs weren't interested in finding out just how good or bad he might be. He is a complete question mark. But, when I see Furcal as a possible free agent target, I can't help but wonder if the Cubs see his "speed" rather than OBP as the main reason for targeting him. If they don't get him, would they go after the speedy Royce Clayton instead of a better OBP option? With this managements mentality, I'm not sure. Maybe they'll feel Neifi's defense is better than Nomar's offense if they can't sign Furcal. The warning signs scare me.

Hendry's name was mentioned in pursuit Preston last offseason and at the trade deadline. Ah, I knew about those. I was just thinking there might have been something new. I'm not too concerned about them going after him if that's the only basis for the rumors... Anything can happen, though. Wilson was only available through trade those other times. He's ripe for the picking off the free agent market this time. Buyer beware.

Has anyone done something yet? Is Macias a free agent or a possible non-tender? Yes. Anyone has done something yet. Several managers have been cut loose, coaches have been fired, GM's have been let go...... Nomar has suggested he'd love to be back in Chicago and would be open to playing whereever they want him. However, management doesn't seem interested in retaining his services. The offseason for the Cubs basically started September 1st, and Jose Macias and Neifi Perez batted 1/2 while Cedeno sat. We have so little info on Cedeno, we won't know if he could be an everyday starter or a AAAA player. I could go on and on. It is my opinion, but I don't like the vibe coming out of Chicago. Getting back to another post you recently made in this tread.... Would you like Burnitz as a 4th outfielder if you know Murton is one of the starters? Isn't that Hollandsworth/Dubois all over again?

A lot of rumors. Yes. However, not the type of rumors I want to hear. They have done nothing to convince me they intend to improve the weakness this team has.