Electron Blue

Actually, Dusty is the manager, not Corey. He could've said no if he wanted to. He should've known not to let a guy who was struggling hit in one of the most crucial on base spots in the line up. I understand his player's manager philosophy, but this is the same thing that happened with Sammy's refusal to move down last year. At some point, Dusty has to put on his manager's hat, and make a decision that's going to benefit the team, not just keep one player happy. Exactly right. If Aramis asked to bat leadoff, what then? What if Barrett wanted to coach third base? Neifi work concessions? Really though, BleedCubbieBlue said it right: it's not a Players' Manager's job to give everyone what they want, it's to keep everybody happy and productive. If Corey wanted to bat leadoff, Dusty should've pulled him aside and given him a "best for the team" talk. Totally exaggerated points. I have no doubt Dusty, and Corey, and the Cubs, and Cub fans, were hoping a move to leadoff would stimulate Corey positively. Maybe we all knew it wasn't, but no one has been asking Barrett for years to tailor his skills to a third base coach's set. They tried it and it failed - Dusty saying no after all the prodding they had given Patterson in this direction is really quite unthinkable. You're right, I was exaggerating :wink:. But seriously, the rest of my point remains. Corey simply isn't a leadoff hitter. Even if he performs like he's capable, he's not the right type. But just like he did for Sosa, he let the players' decide where they bat. Also, how do you defend Neifi batting second as long as he did? (OT: My 100th Post!!)

If something go lost in the translation, I apologize. My announcement would have been made based on the "Hawkins Sucks" chant. I have no objection to booing. Just insert "shouting Hawkins Sucks" in for "booing" and my point is the same.

I wonder if you'll have that same opinion if you're watching your son/daughter play and overhear parents saying they suck. Are you seriously, and I mean seriously, comparing labeling professional athletes who make millions and play at the highest level with peoples young children including my future son or daughter? If I overheard someone mentioning that my 8 year old son "sucked" that would surely be different in my mind, than fans chanting derisively when an opponent comes into the game to bat or pitch. Once again, are you SERIOUSLY making this leap in argument? Yes, I'm absolutely serious. Hawkins had family members present for the games. Again, booing, okay, the "Haw-kins" "Haw-kins" chant okay. "Hawkins sucks" not okay, whether his folks were there or not. My point is I don't think his family views him as a "million dollar player", but family. That's what I was comparing it to. Plus, what's the overall purpose other than showing that we had a bunch of drunk people in the stands Tuesday night/ Wednesday morning. I don't know about you, but thus far, I view Derrek Lee as one of the most classy individuals. When he says anything negative, I generally have to listen. For the price we pay for medical care, you'd think we could really let some of those underperforming doctors hear it. Come on guys, "Dr. Springman Sucks!!"

Go ahead and laugh. Your admission to the stadium is based on abiding by the terms set forth by the team. If you want to openly abrogate a rather simple, civil request from your host, that is an issue for you to deal with. And, this isn't the east coast. I doubt many would disagree that a different attitude exists on the east coast than in Chicago. Just as a different attitude exists in the midwest than on the west coast. Not better, just different. Things that are readily acceptable in Yankee Stadium or Fenway don't necessarily need to translate to Wrigley Field. My concern about that idea isn't whether Wrigley would be justified to do that; I know that that have the right. But enforcing it would be like the seatbelt law. It's a good idea to follow it, maybe a couple people will change, and ultimately there won't be any enforcement. I see really no change for the price of Wrigley being labeled as some "G-rated playground run by prudes," as unfairly as that would be. . . You can't enforce such a thing. Such requests are made in the hope that people will feel embarrassed by their actions and respond accordingly. People just need reminders on behavior sometimes. Where is the harm? At worst, the fans continue with the same behavior. At best, some, if not all, stop. Seems like a no brainer to me. The only reason peopl boo and sling insults at the players is to be offensive. They're not worried about being offending to people - they're striving to do it! My point is announcing that booing is offensive gets you nowhere, because everybody knows that. Those who do it, do it for that very reason. Therefore, I don't see that request making any noticeble change.

Go ahead and laugh. Your admission to the stadium is based on abiding by the terms set forth by the team. If you want to openly abrogate a rather simple, civil request from your host, that is an issue for you to deal with. And, this isn't the east coast. I doubt many would disagree that a different attitude exists on the east coast than in Chicago. Just as a different attitude exists in the midwest than on the west coast. Not better, just different. Things that are readily acceptable in Yankee Stadium or Fenway don't necessarily need to translate to Wrigley Field. My concern about that idea isn't whether Wrigley would be justified to do that; I know that that have the right. But enforcing it would be like the seatbelt law. It's a good idea to follow it, maybe a couple people will change, but ultimately there won't be any enforcement. I see really no change for the price of Wrigley being labeled as some "G-rated playground run by prudes," as unfairly as that would be. . .

So you're saying that seniors are offended by vulgar language, and therefore have less of a right to enjoy themselves at a game? Maybe the word "sucks" is pretty low on the offensive scale, but I really disagree with the rest of your post.

Personally I don't want my kids around when fans are yelling "Sucks". I've always considered it different than stinks and the meaning is vulgar IMO. Agreed. Also, many of the chants that you don't hear on TV (i.e. just one or two guys are doing it) are worse. At a Cardinals/Cubs game in Busch, some Cubs fans were quite vulgar and drunk. Some of their shouts were very obsenely directed at the players, while some just made no sense ("Hey Jeff Suppan, you can't even put soup in a pan!"). As long as drunk idiots attend baseball games, this will continue.

Really? You think they'd do that and that it would work? Wouldn't all of that just contribute to drawing attention to it, like in your last sentance? This is one of those things that is just unfortunate. I doubt there's really anything that can fix it.

Actually, Dusty is the manager, not Corey. He could've said no if he wanted to. He should've known not to let a guy who was struggling hit in one of the most crucial on base spots in the line up. I understand his player's manager philosophy, but this is the same thing that happened with Sammy's refusal to move down last year. At some point, Dusty has to put on his manager's hat, and make a decision that's going to benefit the team, not just keep one player happy. Exactly right. If Aramis asked to bat leadoff, what then? What if Barrett wanted to coach third base? Neifi work concessions? Really though, BleedCubbieBlue said it right: it's not a Players' Manager's job to give everyone what they want, it's to keep everybody happy and productive. If Corey wanted to bat leadoff, Dusty should've pulled him aside and given him a "best for the team" talk.

If the fans are going to boo Hawkins at least be more creative than saying Hawkins sucks. The fans do have the right to say or do what they want because they paid to get in. I went to the Zoo the other day and screamed at the Lions because they didn't come out and fight in front of my kids. I paid good money to see them and my money goes to their food so I want a good show. So, I'm screaming "Lions suck!" as loud as I can and then some stupid White Sox fan jumps the fence and starts a fight with one of the Lions. I didn't know tatoo's could come off like that. LOL next time at a Cubs/Giants game I'll be the one trying to get a "Hawkins was routinely ineffective in his miscast role!" chant going.

Most will tell you that in '03 and '04 we were just about the best team out there, and the failures of those two years (playoffs or not) are on Dusty's shoulders. Also, just because we're a .500 team doesn't mean we're doing the best with the players we have. It's Dusty's mindset that many posters have an issue with. My complaints are with his hesitence to play rookies, and his ignorance of stats, such as OBP (which SERIOUSLY hurt us when CP and Neifi were 1-2). Many will say that Dusty is not the Strategic manager, but that he's a Players' manager. They say it's just his style. But if he's a good clubhouse guy, how did he allow the team to implode on itself in '04?

Most will tell you that in '03 and '04 we were just about the best team out there, and the failures of those two years (playoffs or not) are on Dusty's shoulders. Also, just because we're a .500 team doesn't mean we're doing the best with the players we have. It's Dusty's mindset that many posters have an issue with. My complaints are with his hesitence to play rookies, and his ignorance of stats, such as OBP (which SERIOUSLY hurt us when CP and Neifi were 1-2). Many will say that Dusty is not the Strategic manager, but that he's a Players' manager. They say it's just his style. But if he's a good clubhouse guy, how did he allow the team to implode on itself in '04?

I came to post the same example. Personally, I'm not sure he could have made it. But it's inexcusable that we even have to wonder . . .

Craig Wilson. Can't he not come off the DL until after the deadline? Hes untradeable until the offseason (assuming he isnt put on waivers and clears them). There's no rule against trading a player that is on the DL, it just doesn't happen very often as why would you want a guy that's hurt. Rondell White was on the DL when the Cubs acquired him. Is Craig Wilson the one that looks like Kerry Wood? And the way I recall it, that's pretty much where he stayed for the next year or two :wink:

[Pulp Fiction]That's a bold statement.[/Pulp Fiction] Really though, that's an interesting What If. Do you have any specific reasoning behind this? It could be an interesting debate. I don't think Baker could sabotage the Cards too bad, but I've got a feeling that Guillen is just right for the Sox this year, and I don't think anyone else could match what he's done.

Can he play left?

Maybe you mentioned it earlier, but what exactly are you confident in McCoy about. His contacts through being around for awhile, or his actual journalistic qualities, I'm just wondering. I personally think Bruce is pretty credible, not to mention highly respectable as a pro. But (mostly out of sheer optimism) I'm going to hold out hope for as long as possible for Dunn to be a Cub

Yeah this needs some explanation.

I've always wondered why different people have different amounts of pages...it only says 28 for me. Premium members get all the crap posts filtered out.

Exactly Dude--- It's like saying Mike Lowell is worthless because he has had a bad season this year. Except that no one has said Pierre was on Steroids last year . . .

Someone should actually write him, I assume he has an email adress somewhere.

What's the consensus of the Reds' OF situation? Specifically, if (one of the following) Pena or Griffey or Kearns are traded, does that mean that Dunn won't?

I agree completely about kicking around rumors. As for people who complain about how bogus this rumor is, I understand where you're coming from. But people like myself sometimes really like this sort of thing, even if nothing is legitimately iminant. Besides, name one thing that is both agonizingly tense and fun, as this . . .

Yep, about 15 pages ago... To save you the time, CUBZ99, of looking for it, I'll summarize: He didn't see it happening.

lol, why do you say that? And don't say it's because of 300+ posts and 9000+ views in less than a day. . .