badgercub

Just wondering if you had any insight onto the two deals Hendry was alluding to.

I would make the arguement that Patterson has had one good half year, and one average year for a CF. When you move him to right field he had a half year that would have been acceptable, other than that your argument to move CPatt to RF does not hold any water. The guy has a career Ave. and OBP that are horrible. Burnitz would be a better option.

The blame should go in many directions. Hendry's not a dictator. Perhaps the biggest blame goes towards whoever's in charge of drafting hitters. The Cubs inabilitiy to draft good hitters is a killer. As for Hendry and Baker, I give Hendry a B- and Baker a D. The Trib, I give a B. Wendell Kim F. They went with a philosophy of drafting pitchers, which is fine if you use some of those pitchers to acquire good hitting. The problem with that is Hendry couldn't see the forest through the trees and got spooked after Dontrelle's success which led to him keeping way too many guys too long and it ended up in the Cubs losing a guy like Andy Sisco in the Rule 5 draft. And more recently IMO he over paid by shipping 3 young arms for Juan Pierre.

CubfaninCA, do you think all the blame should be laid at the feet of the Trib? If not, how do you spread the blame around? Believe me, I am not a big fan of the Trib, but they have given management a more than adequate budget to build and put a winning team on the field. I think there is plenty of blame to go around starting with Andy MacPhail, Jim Hendry, Dusty Baker, and even down to the coaches (everyone remember Wendell Kim) and players. MacPhail's tenure has lasted well over 10 years and how many W.S. titles has he brought to the North Side? How many Division Titles? I think the buck stops at MacPhail and Hendry.

I agree ... I would rather see him there than some of these scrubs that have been mentioned. In 03 he only played a half season. Come on, while Corey has the skills he hasn't put it together he's a career .250 hitter with and OBP under .300. Even in 03 his OBP was only .329 a mere .030 higher than his average. He has no plate discipline, no patience, and is too stubborn to try something different. His defense is good but to say he was above average in 03 and 04 is almost laughable. If he were some other teams prospect we would have all labeled him a bust a long time ago. So...finishing above the pack in '03 and middle of the pack in '04 in OPS at the position makes him *not* average to above average in those years? I'm trying to figure this out. When you take those numbers and move him to right field which is being suggested I dont' think he is average (Plus he only played a half year in 03). As far as making him a 4th outfielder I think they will be overpaying for him for what he is going to be making and as a pinch hitter off the bench I would prefer someone who can make contact.

What OF did he specifically miss out on? Drew, Maggs, Beltran and there were a couple others. Say what you want about injuries and what-not but if we had any of these guys we would be a much better team. The difference between Burnitz and the others was 4-6mil so I don't buy the story that he was handcuffed. And if he indeed was and the higherups didn't want them to spend the extra money what does that tell you about this Organization? Do they really want to win if they are not willing to put up 4-6 mil extra? Well, if you're going to disregard facts, what can I say rather than Ordonez would have been an awful signing. Oh yeah, and what facts am I disregarding? There were more options available than Ordonez. I suppose most people are expecting Hendry the Moses of GM's to pull a ARam like trade this offseason. Like I said, a little forsight be it a FA signing or trade last year and we wouldn't be having this problem in RF. Unless of course you think Jacque Jones is a good enough player to put us over the top. This has been discussed here on various occasions. The Trib wasn't willing to expand payroll to pay for Drew, Beltran or Maggs. Even if they had the money, I highly doubt they would have wanted Drew @ 5 years or Beltran @ 7. again, I don't think you can lay this all on the Trib. The Cubs have a top 3 budget. Hendry has to take some of the blame for his failure to put a team on the field that can compete, stay healthy, etc..... Including the decision to keep his boy (Dusty Baker) around.

The problem isn't hte Trib opening up the pocketbook, it is the front office putting together some semblance of a plan and actually following through with it. Hendry way overpaid in prospects for Pierre and now he doesn't have as many chips to acquire the RF they so desperately need. He has the money, but there isn't any FA out there where throwing money at them will solve the problem. (Giles might have solved the problem but Hendry couldn't get it done)

I agree ... I would rather see him there than some of these scrubs that have been mentioned. In 03 he only played a half season. Come on, while Corey has the skills he hasn't put it together he's a career .250 hitter with and OBP under .300. Even in 03 his OBP was only .329 a mere .030 higher than his average. He has no plate discipline, no patience, and is too stubborn to try something different. His defense is good but to say he was above average in 03 and 04 is almost laughable. If he were some other teams prospect we would have all labeled him a bust a long time ago.

If the Cubs start the year with that outfield I will be sick to my stomach. Unless by fun you mean funny, like comical. That could possibly be the worst starting outfield in the ML's.

Giants website just says multi year 27 million. I am assuming 3 years

Floyd (according to the Mets) is not on the market. And the Cubs can't even sign Burnitz until May so you can take him off the list.

I don't think Patterson is that great a match for a small market team, unless the Cubs eat his salary which will most likely be around 3 million (give or take).

This is what I've been talking about the entire thread. Tejada isn't THAT good. 12th highest VORP in baseball last season? The guy is really good. That said a guy like Aberu would be a better fit for the Cubs considering their hole in RF. Position scarcity doesn't matter in this sense. For the production you are getting in return at his age and contract, it's not worth giving Baltimore a blank check of prospects like many are suggesting. His contract isn't that bad, and he is not that old. With the pitchers (Prior and Z especially) and the fact that Lee and Ramirez's contracts are up soon, you have a window of opportunity to get yourself to a W.S. and win it, that should be the ultimate goal. Considering the Cubs really aren't saddled with any long term horrible contracts and their payroll being what it is, the Cubs should never really have to rebuild.

Does a package including Lugo and Huff look like something feasible? I would much rather have Floyd than Huff but it sounds like the Mets aren't dealing Floyd now. Lugo, Huff, go get Bradley and call it a day.

I would like that as well. But the Cubs are running out of tradable assets. They gave up too much for Pierre. They need Jerome Williams unless they get a solid starter elsewhere. The farm is not as rich as it was 3-4 years ago. Trading for Lugo and Floyd individually would probably cost big time talent, which the Cubs can't afford to give up. But then again, they can't afford to go into the season with the lineup looking anything close to what it looks like right now. I believe Hendry is in an all or nothing situation and will overspend with his job on the line. If it brings a W.S to the Northside I am all for overspending.

I'd rather trade marginal talent and take on Floyd (much great offensive impact than Lugo) and Matsui (could hopefully keep Neifi on bench more often) while paying the money (which is still available), than trade significant talent for Lugo (which leaves a questionable OF of Murton, Pierre, Bradley(assumed)) with no OF depth. The Cubs still have money to spend on the roster. If they aren't going to get an impact player like Drew or Abreu, they might as well use that financial flexibility to their advantage. The two things you need to make a deal are money and talent. If you don't have much money, you have to give up more talent. If you have the money, you can give up less talent. If this fascilitates a Manny trade, NY could give the Cubs Floyd and Matsui for very little, just for the cost benefit. I agree with that, but I was thinking you acquire Floyd,Lugo, and Bradley in seperate deals leaving you with: Pierre Lugo Lee Floyd Ram Bradley Barrett Cedeno With a bench of: Blanco, Mabry, Perez, Hairston, and Murton. Not sure how likely it would be to acquire those three but I don't think it is unrealistic.

I would rather they still try and pursue Lugo but if the only way they can get Floyd is to take on Matsui, so be it.

The only problem is, can either of them play RF? Rondell has no arm at all. As of right now the bench consists of: Blanco, Hairston, Perez, Mabry. I liked Goony's idea of using a combination of Floyd and Murton in LF and then you are not pigeonholed into finding a lefthanded hitting RF and you strengthen the bench by having either Floyd or Murton (whichever doesn't start that day on the bench).

If there were any serious inuries Iw ould much rather have Hairston there to play everyday than Cairo.

If you did what Goony suggests (stole my idea :P ), I don't think you need Lugo. Considering Tampa is standing firm that they want even more than Andy Marte for Lugo, I don't think Lugo is a realistic option anymore. Cedeno and Walker hold down the middle infield. The offense would be plentiful from the other 7 spots that even if Cedeno couldn't bat his weight, the Cubs could still put a lot of runs on the board. Pierre, Bradley, Lee, Floyd, Ramirez, Walker, Barrett, Cedeno My thinking is that Walker would be used one way or another to pick one of either Floyd, Bradley, or possibly another SP. I think the handwriting is on the wall that Walker will not be back, and if he isn't we will truly need Lugo, unless you want Neifi starting. edit: sorry about the edit job on the quotes, just trying to eliminate some stuff

i hope he's wrong. i'll take floyd or wilkerson over bradley any day. Why not both (Floyd and Bradley)? Can the Cubs pull off a trade for each? I think it's possible. Platoon Murton and Floyd in LF. because both murton & floyd should play full time. as i said, i would much rather have murton in lf & floyd in rf than bradley anywhere in the mix. Murton is no guarantee for 600+ PA of solid production, while Floyd is not a 600+ PA guy either. I'd take an OF of Murton (400), Pierre (400), Floyd (400) and Bradley (600), with Hairston and Mabry down the line. That would be affordable, flexible and productive. I'd love to get Murton 600 PA this year. But this offense isn't good enough to take the chance that he'll end up with a 750 OPS. Floyd would be nice to have, but he never plays a full season. Bradley would be great to have, and the worst that could happen is he's only out there for 200 PA (if he gets hurt or flips out), in which case you have Floyd and Murton to step in. Goony, I think that makes a lot of sense. It reduces some of the injury risk and also strengthens the bench which was a glaring weakness last year. Now just add Lugo and you would have something like this: Pierre Lugo Lee Floyd Ramirez Bradley Barrett Cedeno

Well, Murph's on now. I'm sure he'll have some intelligent insight on what's going on... :lol: LOL, can you say "rant?" :lol: :lol: :lol: Murph want Lugo for SS. I agree.

Barrett never saw the #2 hole in '05, and going off of memory alone, he didn't do very well in limited time there in '04. But you could make the argument that the #8 spot doesn't agree with him at all. Barrett AB R H 2B 3B HR TB RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS batting 4th 12 4 4 2 0 0 6 0 1 1 0.333 0.429 0.500 0.929 batting 5th 56 10 19 5 1 3 35 10 9 4 0.339 0.431 0.625 1.056 batting 6th 89 9 34 9 0 5 58 18 8 14 0.382 0.439 0.652 1.090 batting 7th 70 3 10 3 1 1 18 2 7 13 0.143 0.221 0.257 0.478 batting 8th 191 23 48 10 1 6 78 31 13 27 0.251 0.305 0.408 0.713 batting 9th 6 0 2 0 0 0 2 0 1 2 0.333 0.500 0.333 0.833 Totals 424 49 117 29 3 15 197 61 39 61 0.276 0.343 0.465 0.808 I would make the argument that he is one of the better contact guys on the club and with Pierre batting in front of him and running he will open up holes on the right side of the infield.

I really don't think FL is interested in Prior. A) he makes more than the league minimum, and b) by the time these young guys grow up and make an impact, they might have lost him to FA by that time. Actually I agree - I wouldn't trade Miggy for Prior, Hill and Pie. I know that fans have a way of overvaluing thier own players, but if you're in contention AND building for the future, I think you'd be foolish to pass on that deal. Well, I'm not that high Pie. Hill is nice. Prior is a stud but considering money and age Miggy is just flat out has better value. Plus I prefer position player young studs over pitchers because of durability. I am not sure even Prior and some prospects would get it done. Plus why wouldn't you do it? You get the Cubs top prospects, Prior and a decent salary for a year or two and then you ship him out for more top prospects or young major league talent at the time these other prospects are getting to the major leagues.

Interesting Dilema if they don't sign/acquire another SS. While I think Hendry does like Walker's offensive capabilities he is not happy with his defense, in particular his inability to turn the double play. (Again, this is my perception of what Hendry is thinking) If by some chance he is on the roster opening day you will have Cedeno at SS and Walker at 2b. I really hope they can get some value for Walker, while I like him a lot if they can improve the team by using him to acquire a RF then I have no problem whatsoever that.