FergieJ31

The notion that Dusty's famous quote is evidence of racism is ridiculous. I noticed no one in the "Dusty is racist" camp addressed CubColtPacer's analogy of the diff between men and women: "It would be the same thing as somebody coming out and saying that men enjoy the cold more than women do-does that make a person sexist?" And the movie "White Men Can't Jump" - were the producers racist? Let's not pretend to know what's in his heart. He might actually be racist for all we know, but it sucks and it's embarrassing as a Cub fan to see that opinion (with no backing evidence) aired publically. Dusty does point to a potential (and debatable) physiological difference between white athletes and black athletes. He has some little-known Bill James research on his side: http://archives.cnn.com/2000/books/beginnings/01/31/taboo/

Sorry, typo - HGH (human growth hormone)

That game still hurts; I remember it very well. Another 6-run lead game that's still painful (I was at the game, surrounded by obnoxious Cardinal fans): http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B07200CHN2004.htm

IIRC that study looked at the hypothesis that the "day game effect" would imply a degradation in the Cubs' winning pct as a function of game number (higher winning pct early in the year). The logic being that long hot summer days take a gradual toll on a body. He did find some weak statistical evidence for this, but it's what we Cubs fans know simply as the June swoon (which started a month early this year). I don't have the BP in front of me but I remember it being a weak, marginally inconclusive test.

The research is sort of interesting but I don't see much predictive power there. I'd be more impressed if the researchers established some correlation between test scores and MLB talent (reflected in OPS for instance). Ruth did well, Pujols did well ... but what if all MLB players do about as well on average? I'm sure there are many ordinary Joes they could take off the street who would do well in some of those reflex and symbol recognition tests who wouldn't have a prayer of hitting a baseball. I'd be more interested to see some kind of objective/scientific assessment of baseball hitting talent that involved the Conditioned Ocular Enhancement: http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/kc/news/kc_news.jsp?ymd=20040331&content_id=674922&vkey=spt2004news&fext=.jsp I'll bet Albert would mash on that machine right out of the box.

No flames please, just going to throw out another potential factor: steroids and/or HGG. There is certainly some circumstantial evidence: Prior's longtime association with Tom House and Tom House's admitted substance use. As I said, no flames. I'm not asserting he did or didn't, but the evidence is worth addressing. Thoughts anyone?

Haha that's great! I have a real similar story: I was in a hotel in Colorado, first time ever using a wifi connection which would annoyingly go in and out of range. Game wasn't on cable so I followed it intermittently on mlb.com on my laptop. When Ramirez hit the HR to make it 6-3 I knew it was a game. But then my connection cut out and I didn't get it back until the 8th when it was 7-6 Cards. Just in time to see Alou drive in the winning run on the AB abuck mentioned above. I felt like a [expletive] cheering by myself in a hotel sitting at my computer when Jobo struck out Edmonds to end the game, but IIRC that win knocked the Cards out of first and put the Cubs 1 GB.

I didn't realize the Cards were up by 6 at one point in that game. Another 6-run Cardinal lead squandered: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B09030CHN2003.htm which led to the famous 6-run Cardinal lead thread on cubs.com Moises, 5-5, 4 rbis ... ahh .. good times. :cry:

The length of this ballgame just might be dominated by the time it takes the ball to go from the pitcher to the catcher ... Go get 'em rook! Go COBS!

Exactly the same? I disagree. I found Campanis' remark over the top and outrageously offensive (and fwiw, I happen to be white). By contrast, I wasn't at all bothered by the admittedly-odd "handle the heat" remark. There was no animosity or hatred there - unlike Campanis' belittling remark. Like I said before, where is Dusty's history? Stop pointing to a single quote as evidence. How long did it take John Rocker to show his true colors? If Dusty really was a racist, he would have been out of the league long ago.

> It would be the same thing as somebody coming out and saying that men enjoy the cold more than women do-does that make a person sexist? Perfect analogy. Also, Campanis' "not having the necessities" remark is not at all on the same par as Dusty's. Ask yourself how you'd feel if someone you just met took one look at you and made one of two prejudicial remarks: "You don't look like you have the necessities for " -or- "You don't look like you handle the heat very well." Which one would you find more offensive?

As it is, this list is nothing more than Exhibit A on why Dusty is a bad manager. Why doesn't he play Blanco over Barrett more if he hates white guys? He'd even have an old-fashioned baseball maxim on his side (and I'm certainly not saying this is always good advice): "put your best D guys up the middle: C, SS, 2B and CF"

Controversial, yes, but racist? The evidence isn't there. If one is racist and in the league for as long as Dusty has, shouldn't he have a string of incriminating incidents and quotes by now? Do you want to really pretend to know what's in his heart? I'm sorry but when you say "He honestly believes black people are quicker and better in heat, and therefore better at baseball", that's pure conjecture. You have nothing to back it up. Say what you will about Dusty's managerial skills and I'll most certainly agree with you: he's not a good game manager. But let's stop with the racism crap.

Besides the well-publicized quote: "Black players' skin color is more conducive to heat than it is to the lighter-skinned people. I don't see brothers running around burnt." What evidence do you have that Dusty is racist? If it's an opinion and you have no facts to back it up - fine - just admit it's your opinion. The reaction to that particular comment has been overblown. It was a regrettable comment which he should have kept to himself, but it was a literal comment about skin pigment and ability to stay out in the sun. Not about race in general, unless you want to defend the position that race is nothing but skin pigment. How would you define the word 'racist' anyway? Isn't usually associated with hate and superiority? Honestly, the Dusty bashing has gone to a new level, and it's getting absolutely ridiculous.

Are you seriously saying Dusty is racist? That is the silliest thing I've ever read on NSBB.

I would think it would be difficult for somebody to poll the loudest boo-birds in the stadium to find out their knowledge of pre-2003 Cubs. How did you manage it? What's with the sarcasm? It's obviously an opinion. It's hard to ignore these ppl after all. I might be making an blanket assessment of their knowledge of pre-2003 Cubs, but we've all overheard conversations from loudmouths behind us in the stands. One can get a pretty good estimate of their baseball IQ after a few innings - I'm not making a overly gross generalization here.

I think your percentage is a little high. Of the 40,000 people at any given game, I'm guessing more than 40 are booing at least in part b/c Dusty's black. Dusty deserves to be booed, b/c he sucks. He doesn't deserve racist letters or phone calls or any of that other crap. I think his percentage was about right - maybe even a tad low. It only seems like more than 0.1% of the fans are racist because they are much louder, figuratively and literally, and much more offensive. Like many of the good fans here on NSBB who are in the Chicago area, I've been going to Wrigley for many years. There definitely has been a big change in the past few years. The obnoxious fans who boo incessantly and scream obscenities tend to be "loyal" fans since 2003, or 1998 in some cases. Of all the long-time fans I know, not a single one is among the haters. Haters? I don't think so. It's a fans right to boo and considering how bad this team is, rightfully so. I never said fans don't have a right to boo. I just noted that it seems like the loudest / most obnoxious boo-birds tend to be younger fans who don't know much about the Cubs pre-2003. And my prev post was guilty of not carefully differentiating between loud boo-birds & insult artists (who are within their right, as you say, even if they're obnoxious fair-weather fans), and the racists & true hate-mongerers (no excuse whatsoever on God's green earth for these ppl).

I think your percentage is a little high. Of the 40,000 people at any given game, I'm guessing more than 40 are booing at least in part b/c Dusty's black. Dusty deserves to be booed, b/c he sucks. He doesn't deserve racist letters or phone calls or any of that other crap. I think his percentage was about right - maybe even a tad low. It only seems like more than 0.1% of the fans are racist because they are much louder, figuratively and literally, and much more offensive. Like many of the good fans here on NSBB who are in the Chicago area, I've been going to Wrigley for many years. There definitely has been a big change in the past few years. The obnoxious fans who boo incessantly and scream obscenities tend to be "loyal" fans since 2003, or 1998 in some cases. Of all the long-time fans I know, not a single one is among the haters.

I hope Jon gets a nice ovation when he takes the mound - he is a class act and had a nice run here for a few years. I remember Baylor used to cackle about getting Lieber for Brant Brown.

> Alas and Alack !! Who will save us now that Neifi is gone ??? I'll go out on a limb and predict a Cubs-Tigers WS. Then Neifi can really save us by getting regular playing time in the series.

:shock: :shock:

I always spell it Albu-quirky :) Thanks for posting all the great stats Fred -- much appreciated! Albuquerque...I believe thats how you spell it Gee, ya think? (what would we do without this guy :lol: )

I always spell it Albu-quirky :) Thanks for posting all the great stats Fred -- much appreciated!

After being on the opposing team's scrap heap at the beginning of the season, there's only upside in this match-up:

YES!!! wtg kid!