You can write off Rush and Henry, but you'd be jumping the gun. Neither will be stars, but both will have fine careers. better than anyone Mike Anderson has produced. There's no evidence to suggest playing for Mike Anderson will enhance your ability to even get to the NBA. Phil Pressey should be an interesting experiment. It'll be interesting to see if he gets there. No one should be touting Self's ability to get the most of his kids in the pros. He has Darnell Jackson to hang his hat on and that's it. I would rather have Weber's track record with DWill and Luther. Cole Aldrich was not NBA material coming out of HS. Neither was Sasha Kaun, and he got drafted. We'll see if Sherron sticks, but it's saying something getting someone his size on an NBA roster. If you haven't seen a ton of growth in the Morris twins, you're kidding yourself. Absolutely no one would have said Marcus was a possible All-American and NBA draft pick coming out of HS. I'll admit that Arthur, Rush, Henry, and Wright were going to the NBA regardless of who coached them. The debate would be, wold another coach have gotten them more ready? I'm sure you'll say no because it burns you to say anything good about Self. I would say yes, with the exception of Wright. I'm sure all would be in the NBA HOF by now if they'd played under MIke Anderson or Weber though. Dwilliams and Head played for Self, too. So he gets an assist on those two. You want one to brag about for Weber and Weber alone, go with DMac. He's turned into a big-time player under BW. Self does really well with kids he can develop. The kids that are elite level talent coming in don't get any better under Bill and definately don't get the chance to shine like they do in other places. Self coached Deron for a year. In that year Deron shot 30 percent from the free throw line, I am not giving him credit for DWill. Just like I am not gonna punish Self for having Aaron Miles and Wayne Simien. well, i don't deny part of your point. Star freshman players can definitely get a chance to shine more at other schools (UK comes to mind) A lot of that is due to his philosophy. It's definitely team oriented. And he gets married to upperclassmen and defensive players at the expense of some younger, higher-rated talent. I think he tried to change that somewhat last year with X Henry. I still think you're wrong about elite talent not getting better, but we'll agree to disagree. As for DWill, free throws seems like kind of a random stat to make your case on. He had a good freshman year under Self. Named All-Freshman Team by CollegeInsider.com Second on the team and ranked third in the Big Ten in assists, averaging 4.53 per game Led the league in assists in conference play with 77 (4.81 apg), edging out teammate Dee Brown by one assist Ranked second in the Big Ten behind Brown in assist/turnover ratio at +2.46 Second on the team with 46 steals, an average of 1.44 spg (ninth in Big Ten) I totally agree that the majority of the development credit for Williams should go to Weber. He coached him for longer. But it's not like he was some bum who randomly got good under Weber. He was already a good player his Fr year and was a star in the making.