Make a good argument putting them in front of either UCLA, Indiana, UNC, Duke, or Kentucky. The top 5 go ahead I will wait for it. KU is a top 10 program or second tier. Hey Bill, that Sommerville kid can shoot might want to guard him. I think they're in front of Duke. They had a few Final Four appearances in the 60's, but other than that they were pretty much irrelevant until the late 80's. Yeah they've quite possibly been the best program since 1989, but that's not all that matters. It's close and they're right there, but I would give them the nod. There is a real ebb and flow to these things, IMO. A few years ago, I would have agreed with you, but Kansas hasn't looked like a top 5 in a while. Yeah, no FF since '02 and '03. What a drought. KU Since 1988-- five final fours, 3 title game appearances, one title. That's plenty to keep them in top program contention. UCONN is quickly becoming part of the discussion, too. It's their lack of history that hurts them. I realize it's all subjective, but I think it's silly to discount history and coaching trees just because you think they don't matter in the discussion. When people talk about UNC, they talk about Dean and MJ. When people talk UCLA they talk Wooden, Alcindor, etc. When people talk about KU, they talk Naismith, Chamberlain, the coaching tree. All of those are elements of what makes those programs great, and you don't get to discount them simply because it weakens the pro-KU argument to do so. And, and for the record, if UI lands Rose, they'll be damn good that year they have him. Instant title contender.