AlwaysaCub

Agreed. Marquis is still a problem as the 4th starter in that he's essentially below average, but Lieber is a n upgrade over Dempster and will be a well above average 5th starter, especially in the national league. Obviously we could use an upgrade over Marquis, but there are no better FA starters, and very few teams have depth at pitching. I'm crossing my fingers for this rotation: Z, Lilly, Hill, Marshall, Lieber. I know Lou has a beef for whatever reason with Marshall, but the dude put up a 3.92 era last year and improved his k/bb to almost 2.

This also increases our ex-Cubs count by one. But thankfully, our current Cubs count will hold steady at 25. In other news, this trade is good because Lieber is a smart pitcher, Marquis is a dumb pitcher, and Piniella will recognize this.

He didn't play the full season. Only 1 IP in the regular season and 7 so far in the playoffs. In those 8 innings, he's given up exactly 1 hit, 0 runs, 14 strikeouts, and 0 walks. That's pretty good I think :D I think you're being too generous. I mean, he gave up 1 hit, could have been 0. And he had to have his fielders bail him out a whopping 10 times. Brian Roberts would have done better.

Making an offer like that won't solve the Cubs problem at SS. The Marlins would laugh at our offer and hang up. Also, Hanley Ramirez is generally rated as the worst defensive SS in the majors. He'll be a 3b within 2 years, and we already have one of those.

I'm more curious about their conservative take on Lee's playing time. Because it's based on past data, 2006 provides a bias for Lee's playing time. Murton playing 156 games then? It's premised on each player being the starter at his position. Lee, if he were starter, might get injured because that's in his history. Murton, meanwhile, hasn't gotten 500 abs because of his managers, not any injuries.

They'll be pretty good even if Pie sucks. They'll be pretty damn good if Pie does that, though. Will they? With the current incredible 4/5 of Marquis and Dempster?

And I posted because I was annoyed that someone used ridiculous hyperbole as a statement of fact and no one challenged the ignorance of the statement. There are considerable instances on this board of people using hyperbole to argue things like Mark Prior is a wuss, and they ALWAYS are challenged (rightfully so) using a literalist position. I'm not really sure why me challenging an equally ridiculous statement is such a problem. Sure, I relied upon ERA+, but that's simply because that one stat alone should be enough to dissuade people from relying upon ridiculous hyperbole simply to bash Marquis. More importantly, I wanted to underscore the fact that much of the reason why Dontrelle Willis is so revered by casual baseball fans is because of his terrific 2005, not because he's been a top 5 pitcher his entire career (even though many would consider him in the team photo). He is not light years ahead of any pitcher in the major leagues, let alone one who was statistically better than him last year. Being the original poster, I concede your point about 2007. Also, his walks are up and strikeouts are down. All true. If you look at their histories, Willis has been superior to Marquis 3 out of the 5 years he has been in the league, with the best single season out of any of them being his 2005 season. So, Jason Marquis is more than a quarter of the pitcher the D-Train is but still isn't his equal. I think Dontrelle will also be helped by going to a much better team and defense even in the better league. Marquis was really good for about 2 months this year, but if the Cubs had made it to the LCS Piniella was going to pitch Marshall instead as the 4th starter, which says a lot about Marquis. Furthermore, I think most NSBB posters would have agreed with that move.

Maybe it's infectious. Why on earth would any team make this move ever.

Yeah...Jason Marquis got 24 over 3 and has never been a quarter of the pitcher Dontrelle Willis is.

Really? 1 year after they won the WS? Seems strange.

Maybe they should first go to the Wrigley company and ask if Wrigley will pay to keep its name on the stadium. I don't think they'd agree to pay but you never know.

Some of it is nothing...but having someone testify that he himself injected roger clemens is something

He's a fan favorite ever since the Game 7 catch and his career year in 2006. In all fairness, that catch was phenomenal. My Mets fan roommate nearly killed himself this September, so he decided he could make himself feel better by buying a poster of that Catch. And let's be honest, it has to be one of the most clutch defensive plays ever (even though the mets lost that game).

1. Babe Ruth 2. Ted Williams 3. Barry Bonds 4. Honus Wagner 5. Willie Mays 6. Hank Aaron 7. Josh Gibson 8. Cy Young 9. Lou Gehrig 10. Joe DiMaggio 11. Rickey Henderson 12. Roger "The Rocket" Clemens 13. Alex Rodriguez 14. Sandy Koufax 15. Jimmie Foxx 16. Pedro Martinez 17. Ty Cobb 18. Mel Ott 19. Rogers Hornsby 20. Albert Pujols 21. Stan Musial 22. Nolan Ryan 23. Mickey Mantle 24. Walter Johnson 25. Sammy Sosa 26. Satchel Paige 27. Greg Maddux 28. Cap Anson 29. Manny Ramirez 30. Bob Feller 31. Christy Matthewson 32. Mike Schmidt 33. Joe Morgan 34. Roberto Clemente 35. Vladimir Guerrero 36. Dale Murphy 37. Johnny Bench 38. Jim Edmonds 39. Todd Helton 40. Frank Thomas 41. Hank Greenberg 42. Mariano Rivera 43. Randy Johnson 44. Billy Wagner 45. Rusty Kuntz 46. Joe Nathan 47. Dick Pole 48. Joe Kennedy 49. Bill Mazeroski 50. Ron Santo 51. Cesar Izturis, King of RGI 52. Tris Speaker 53. Ernie Banks 54. Jackie Robinson 55. Bobby Grich

1. Babe Ruth 2. Ted Williams 3. Barry Bonds 4. Honus Wagner 5. Willie Mays 6. Hank Aaron 7. Josh Gibson 8. Cy Young 9. Lou Gehrig 10. Joe DiMaggio 11. Rickey Henderson 12. Roger "The Rocket" Clemens 13. Alex Rodriguez 14. Sandy Koufax 15. Jimmie Foxx 16. Pedro Martinez 17. Ty Cobb 18. Mel Ott 19. Rogers Hornsby 20. Albert Pujols 21. Stan Musial 22. Nolan Ryan 23. Mickey Mantle 24. Walter Johnson 25. Sammy Sosa 26. Satchel Paige 27. Greg Maddux 28. Cap Anson 29. Manny Ramirez 30. Bob Feller 31. Christy Matthewson 32. Mike Schmidt 33. Joe Morgan

Yeah okay, Cy Young and Joe Dimaggio in the top 10 but no Johnson or Mantle.

I saw this. "A center fielder" could mean Crisp or Ellsbury, which significantly changes the package depending on whom it is.

link So not a baseball test. I also thought that the prosecutors got the supposedly anonymous tests from 2003 that caused the first iteration of the steroid testing program.

Did Palmiero testify before a grand jury? But isn't it illegal to lie to Congress? Was this indictment unexpected? Sadly, you have no proof. He said "I have never usED Steriods, not that I never will use steroids. Small technicality, although it does reek like dead fish.

It figures he'd end up on the NL champions the year after...he'll get blamed for it. oh well.

Here's a thought if the Cubs can't sign Fukodome. Hendry's supposedly been enamored with RF Shawn Green in the past. Green's stats against right-handed pitching in 2007 (approx. 360 plate appearances): .326 .383 .482 .865. Hendry can probably sign him to a 1 year deal for around $4M and let Murton play RF against left-handed pitching. Hoops That would be an incredibly depressing offseason. Green's numbers vs RH last year may be a bit flukish, he didn't hit that way in 2006. And it was basically just a few extra singles falling in, as he didn't hit for any power. When you end up with Shawn Green as your starting left fielder, something has gone horribly wrong. This would be a huge step int he wrong direction. Too old, too slow.

That's the only course of action that could salvage this "plan" in my opinion. Moving Demp to the rotation and trading Marquis still makes us worse. At least Marquis occasionally will pull a cg shutout out of his butt. You think Dempster could ever do that? Horrible, horrible idea.

As The Rocket and Ted Lilly have shown, the NL central aint the NL east. You don't think he'd take advantage of getting 16-20 starts against the Pittsburghs and Houstons of the world? Plus he's a Proven Big Game Pitcher(trademark) and wouldn't give up first pitch homers to Chris Young. Which will cost an extra 4M a season. Can we stop fixing holes that aren't there? And starting more than half his starts against 2 teams would have to be some sort of record. Wish somebody sent the memo to Trachsel that the NL Central is worth a free point in ERA from the AL East. Completely agree. I don't know how many times it needs to be posted on here but the pitching staff was not the problem last year. It's the offense that needs to be upgraded. Runs are runs are runs are runs. It doesn't matter if you're improving the run prevention or the run production, you're improving. And seriously, you don't think we have a hole at the 4th/5th starter spot?

As The Rocket and Ted Lilly have shown, the NL central aint the NL east. You don't think he'd take advantage of getting 16-20 starts against the Pittsburghs and Houstons of the world? Plus he's a Proven Big Game Pitcher(trademark) and wouldn't give up first pitch homers to Chris Young.