Cubs-Padres Game Three Thread: Sudden Death Baseball

11 minutes ago, gflore34 said:

Just reflecting a little on 1984, I'll never understand Frey' logic of going with Sanderson in game 4.  Trout should have started maybe, the Cubs still lose that game unfortunately, we'll never know.

Trout started game 2. I think you are thinking of Sutcliffe. Again, had Sanderson pitched well and the Cubs won no one would have questioned the move. Sutcliffe on 3 days rest or Sanderson rested were the options. We don’t know if Sutcliffe would have done any better. 

8 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Trout started game 2. I think you are thinking of Sutcliffe. Again, had Sanderson pitched well and the Cubs won no one would have questioned the move. Sutcliffe on 3 days rest or Sanderson rested were the options. We don’t know if Sutcliffe would have done any better. 

You're correct, game 5, maybe, turn to Trout earlier perhaps, to start the 7th.  Honestly, don't know if the Cubs would have won even had Durham not made an error.  It was clear Sutcliffe on gas after the 6th.

17 minutes ago, gflore34 said:

You're correct, game 5, maybe, turn to Trout earlier perhaps, to start the 7th.  Honestly, don't know if the Cubs would have won even had Durham not made an error.  It was clear Sutcliffe on gas after the 6th.

So if Sutcliffe was gassed in the 6th inning of game 5, what do you think he would have done had he pitched game 4, on less rest? This conversation started because you said you never understood why the Cubs started Sanderson in game 4. So if not him, and if Sutcliffe couldn’t even go 6 on normal rest, who should have started? Honestly, kind of silly to even be talking about something that happened 41 years ago. 

2 hours ago, Derwood said:

There was an ump early in the season who pre-warned both teams about not tapping their helmets during the game (or he would insta-toss them). He went on to miss 22 calls in that game and over 1200 for the season

Tapping your helmet is disrespectful to the umpires and I have no issue if a player is tossed for it.   Missing 22 calls out of around 300 pitches in any given game sounds pretty good.

The umps missed calls on the Cubs in game 3 too, including probably the out call at home plate that cost them at least a run.

Any Padres fan or player blaming that loss on the ump is a sore loser and should be blaming the Padres players for not hitting better.  Funny they say nothing about the other 2 strikes on Xander that AB.

Having the K zone box on TV has had the benefit of keeping umps more accountable, but has also made fans and players complain even more for every ump that is as 100% perfect as a computer system.   Umps are 10x more accurate than 20 years ago, there will never be a "Livan Hernandez" zone again, but people still won't stop complaining and won't give these guys a break, most of them are doing their best.  The Padre who harassed that ump like a sore loser should be fined and given a soother to help his crying.

Edited October 3, 2025 by Stratos

4 minutes ago, Stratos said:

Tapping your helmet is disrespectful to the umpires and I have no issue if a player is tossed for it.   Missing 22 calls out of around 300 pitches in any given game sounds pretty good.

The umps missed calls on the Cubs in game 3 too, including probably the out call at home plate that cost them at least a run.

Any Padres fan or player blaming that loss on the ump is a sore loser and should be blaming the Padres players for not hitting better.  Funny they say nothing about the other 2 strikes on Xander that AB.

Having the K zone box on TV has had the benefit of keeping umps more accountable, but has also made fans and players complain even more for every ump that is as 100% perfect as a computer system.   Umps are 10x more accurate than 20 years ago, there will never be a "Livan Hernandez" zone again, but people still won't stop complaining and won't give these guys a break, most of them are doing their best.  The Padre who harassed that ump like a sore loser should be fined and given a soother to help his crying.

It's damn hard to call balls and strikes, I, sure as horsefeathers, couldn't do it.  Well, I could do it, don't know how many, if any, calls I'd get right.

8 minutes ago, Stratos said:

Tapping your helmet is disrespectful to the umpires and I have no issue if a player is tossed for it.   Missing 22 calls out of around 300 pitches in any given game sounds pretty good.

The umps missed calls on the Cubs in game 3 too, including probably the out call at home plate that cost them at least a run.

Any Padres fan or player blaming that loss on the ump is a sore loser and should be blaming the Padres players for not hitting better.  Funny they say nothing about the other 2 strikes on Xander that AB.

Having the K zone box on TV has had the benefit of keeping umps more accountable, but has also made fans and players complain even more for every ump that is as 100% perfect as a computer system.   Umps are 10x more accurate than 20 years ago, there will never be a "Livan Hernandez" zone again, but people still won't stop complaining and won't give these guys a break, most of them are doing their best.  The Padre who harassed that ump like a sore loser should be fined and given a soother to help his crying.

If a batter can't tap his helmet to initiate a challenge what's he supposed to do?  Ask for a challenge?

7 hours ago, Derwood said:

I feel like the Mason Miller approach is best. 100+ fastball vs a high-80's slider. I don't get the "everything is thrown top velocity" idea. Why is a 90mph curve more effective than a 79 mph curve? Isn't the greater difference in velocity best for keeping hitters off balance? Or is that a 90mph pitch isn't expected to move that much?

I recall hearing that you want about a 10mph difference in pitches.  Lob balls from the back-up INF in a blowout notwithstanding, if the pitch is too slow the batter can tell the difference and adjust.  To the ridiculous extreme lobbing the ball underhanded would give the greatest disparity in MPH but obviously no-ones ever going to do that.

7 minutes ago, gflore34 said:

If a batter can't tap his helmet to initiate a challenge what's he supposed to do?  Ask for a challenge?

No the tapping was for earlier this season according to Derwood, there was no challenge system in place at that time.  Obviously if the challenge system is in place next year there's nothing wrong with tapping your helmet to start a challenge.

9 minutes ago, gflore34 said:

If a batter can't tap his helmet to initiate a challenge what's he supposed to do?  Ask for a challenge?

Umps were being snowflakes thinking that a batter tapping his helmet was a signal that the call was wrong

13 minutes ago, Derwood said:

Umps were being snowflakes thinking that a batter tapping his helmet was a signal that the call was wrong

What else would it be?  It would probably be pretty clear when that was the intent or not.  If you were an ump would you put up with players doing that to you?

37 minutes ago, Derwood said:

Umps were being snowflakes thinking that a batter tapping his helmet was a signal that the call was wrong

In the one occasion where an umpire threw a guy out, I agree he overreacted. But be careful the snowflake term. I have found that the people who love to throw that word around talking about a certain group of people tend to me people who are the first to get offended by someone acting not exactly like they think they should act or not speaking how they think they should speak. In the case of an umpire I do understand why they would have a problem with a player doing that, this year. It is showing them up. Problem is the one time a guy got tossed for it, I do agree the umpire overreacted. But no more than the umpire that threw Nico out for telling him he was having a bad day. I wouldn’t call either situation the umpire being a snowflake. I would just say he overreacted. 

46 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

In the one occasion where an umpire threw a guy out, I agree he overreacted. But be careful the snowflake term. I have found that the people who love to throw that word around talking about a certain group of people tend to me people who are the first to get offended by someone acting not exactly like they think they should act or not speaking how they think they should speak. In the case of an umpire I do understand why they would have a problem with a player doing that, this year. It is showing them up. Problem is the one time a guy got tossed for it, I do agree the umpire overreacted. But no more than the umpire that threw Nico out for telling him he was having a bad day. I wouldn’t call either situation the umpire being a snowflake. I would just say he overreacted. 

Umps show up the players all the time. They also have a union that complete insulates them from any criticism. They can pound sand.

Edited October 4, 2025 by Derwood

Officials in all sports at all levels are the most sensitive people on Earth. Nobody is perfect, yes, but no professional is further from perfect at their profession than a referee or umpire. They deserve every bit of grief they get. 

Remember when a ref threw a flag on a Bears player when the ref went out of his way to bump into him? Officials in all sports are entitled jerks. I don’t know why they are, but being imbued with a lot of mostly unaccountable power seems to do that to people 

14 hours ago, gflore34 said:

Just reflecting a little on 1984, I'll never understand Frey' logic of going with Sanderson in game 4.  Trout should have started maybe, the Cubs still lose that game unfortunately, we'll never know.

That was Frey worse decision going with Sanderson there over going for the kill with Sutcliffe in Game 4.

13 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

That was Frey worse decision going with Sanderson there over going for the kill with Sutcliffe in Game 4.

He wanted to save him for the Tigers. Ugh. Talk about over confidence 

39 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

That was Frey worse decision going with Sanderson there over going for the kill with Sutcliffe in Game 4.

Again, why is this talked about 41 years later? Why is this his worst decision. The original poster that said this,  acknowledged the next day Sutcliffe was gassed after 6 innings. Game 4, Sanderson was fine. The pen gave up 2 2 run homers. That is why they lost. Game 5 they lost because he left Sutcliffe in to pitch the 7th after he game up 2 runs in the 6th. Maybe that was his worst decision. Maybe letting a tired pitcher go out to pitch the 7th inning was his biggest mistake. Maybe not pitching him in game 4 was because he knew he was in fumes so Frey wanted to give him another day. And had they won he would have had 3 more days to rest. Point is, kind of silly to hold onto this idea of knowing what was best 41 years ago. As my wife always tell me LET IT GO!!!! 
BTW, side note here. That series is when I discovered what jagoffs Sox fans were. The year before, when they lost in the playoffs I didn’t care. Wasn’t rooting for them or against them. Might as well been the orioles bearing the tigers. I knew a lot of Sox fans so to them I said sorry your team lost. But when the Cubs lost in ‘84 most of my Sox fans celebrated the loss. From that point on I came to hate that team. I treated that team the same way most Sox fans treat the Cubs. Probably why I didn’t hate the Cardinals as much as some here. I used most of my hate for the Sox. 

Edited October 4, 2025 by Rcal10

On 10/2/2025 at 6:03 PM, bukie said:

They won't start Boyd on short rest. I'd expect Rea game 1, Boyd 2, Shotgun 3, Taillon to close the series out in game 4.

i was right and you were wrong.

that is all.

1 minute ago, Pinerider said:

i was right and you were wrong.

that is all.

15 hours ago, Stratos said:

 

Having the K zone box on TV has had the benefit of keeping umps more accountable, but has also made fans and players complain even more for every ump that is as 100% perfect as a computer system.   Umps are 10x more accurate than 20 years ago, there will never be a "Livan Hernandez" zone again, but people still won't stop complaining and won't give these guys a break, most of them are doing their best.  The Padre who harassed that ump like a sore loser should be fined and given a soother to help his crying.

And let's be clear, Neither K-Zone or any other iteration of the robot ump is 100% perfect - in fact I don't think there is a way to accurately measure how accurate it even is as they are several factors that go into how it's implemented and factors that can affect it that are never talked about that it's just impossible to put a number on it.  It is better than the humans - that we can say. 

58 minutes ago, Brian707 said:

Evidently you do Bukake Bry! 

42 minutes ago, Pinerider said:

Evidently you do Bukake Bry! 

You are just a troll

4 minutes ago, Pinerider said:

you're just a negative, miserable little soy boy lol

projecting