Another Idiotic Decision by NCAA

[dougdescenzo]

Who is the NCAA to say that they are offended? My main problem with this is it only being in effect during playoffs. That's just dumb

 

That was my point initially, hence the title of the thread. The schools that make up the NCAA with these nicknames see nothing wrong with it, and the NCAA lets these schools continue to be a part of the association. However, when a tournament comes along the proverbial crap hits the fan.

[OleMissCub]

IF THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE OFFENDED THAT'S ALL THAT SHOULD MATTER

 

not how many people

 

not whether they themselves are native american

 

not whether the people who established the mascot intended it as a tribute.

 

there are people who are offended. that should be the end.

 

dude....there is ALWAYS something that offends someone. So I guess you'd be the type who says that because a couple thousand atheists dislike "In God We Trust" then the whole system should be changed to make them feel more comfortable?

[OleMissCub]

hmmm i wonder why people who live on a reservation are alcoholics and kill themselves

 

it's because they are mascots at colleges

[treebird]

Treebeard, i'm still waiting to know why these schools named their teams after Indian tribes if not for tribute

 

there are lots of potential reasons. one of the more interesting:

 

say you know a big game hunter. he goes to africa and kills a lion. he comes back and wants to get the head of the lion mounted. he gets it in a scary pose, and hangs it in his den. why? to show people how intimidating and powerful that creature that HE defeated was. it's a tribute to the lion, but it's also a tribute to the hunter who killed it, for he must be very strong indeed if he defeated it.

 

now if that isn't an awesome allegory, i dont know what is.

 

Treebeard... honestly...i'm very impressed. You should come to Law School with me. That is a MASSIVE stretch, but a very good one.

 

it probably is a stretch, but then it's not like anyone is saying that they did this consciously, so who knows.

 

another likely reason for their establishment is the fact that due to the stereotypical dance and dress they are given, it'd be easy to pick them out and recognize them from a distance.

[sonicdethmonkey0]

Who is the NCAA to say that they are offended? My main problem with this is it only being in effect during playoffs. That's just dumb

 

That was my point initially, hence the title of the thread. The schools that make up the NCAA with these nicknames see nothing wrong with it, and the NCAA lets these schools continue to be a part of the association. However, when a tournament comes along the proverbial crap hits the fan.

 

the ncaa doesn't have the balls to enforce this for a whole season, so they're doing just enough to keep indian groups happy. that's pretty weak

[treebird]

Who is the NCAA to say that they are offended? My main problem with this is it only being in effect during playoffs. That's just dumb

 

That was my point initially, hence the title of the thread. The schools that make up the NCAA with these nicknames see nothing wrong with it, and the NCAA lets these schools continue to be a part of the association. However, when a tournament comes along the proverbial crap hits the fan.

 

i completely agree with this! it doesnt make any sense to be cool with it all year, but not in the most important games.

[OleMissCub]

 

another likely reason for their establishment is the fact that due to the stereotypical dance and dress they are given, it'd be easy to pick them out and recognize them from a distance.

 

I honestly think it's a tribute. At least the tribe names. I can't speak for Indians or Braves or such. Mississippi College is located in the heart of Choctaw country. FSU is located in the heart of former Seminole terroritory.

[dougdescenzo]

IF THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE OFFENDED THAT'S ALL THAT SHOULD MATTER

 

not how many people

 

not whether they themselves are native american

 

not whether the people who established the mascot intended it as a tribute.

 

there are people who are offended. that should be the end.

 

My great grandma got killed by a wildcat therefore i am offended by the use of such a creature as a mascot at all schools where a wildcat is a mascot. Also, cardinals crap on my car from time to time and im offended that such a dispicable creature is allowed to represent the university i go to so that needs to be changed as well.

[treebird]

hmmm i wonder why people who live on a reservation are alcoholics and kill themselves

 

it's because they are mascots at colleges

 

maybe it's because those in power keep throwing their weight around.

 

"hey can we maybe have reservations that aren't out in the middle of the desert? it's not very fun there."

 

"well, we would but instead we decided to make a tribute to you with mascots. look, theres a guy who looks just like at a football game! isn't this better?"

 

"um."

[OleMissCub]

hmmm i wonder why people who live on a reservation are alcoholics and kill themselves

 

it's because they are mascots at colleges

 

maybe it's because those in power keep throwing their weight around.

 

"hey can we maybe have reservations that aren't out in the middle of the desert? it's not very fun there."

 

"well, we would but instead we decided to make a tribute to you with mascots. look, theres a guy who looks just like at a football game! isn't this better?"

 

"um."

 

You do know they can leave the reservation? It isn't a prison. They aren't forced to live in squalor.

[sonicdethmonkey0]

hmmm i wonder why people who live on a reservation are alcoholics and kill themselves

 

it's because they are mascots at colleges

 

good guess, but it's because they live on a reservation and white folks killed all their relatives and took all their land and THEN made them mascots at colleges and dressed up like them and made lots of money by putting pictures of them on t-shirts

[OleMissCub]

hmmm i wonder why people who live on a reservation are alcoholics and kill themselves

 

it's because they are mascots at colleges

 

good guess, but it's because they live on a reservation and white folks killed all their relatives and took all their land and THEN made them mascots at colleges and dressed up like them and made lots of money by putting pictures of them on t-shirts

 

Ah yes, we have Sully juniors here: Everything is the white man's fault. Every disease, every hardship, every famine, every thing wrong with the world is the white man's fault.

[adamb0719]

My great grandma got killed by a wildcat therefore i am offended by the use of such a creature as a mascot at all schools where a wildcat is a mascot. Also, cardinals crap on my car from time to time and im offended that such a dispicable creature is allowed to represent the university i go to so that needs to be changed as well.

 

 

 

That was awesome! Went to BSU myself. Treebeard, If anybody who was offended by something was able to get rid of it, what would be left?

[sonicdethmonkey0]

hmmm i wonder why people who live on a reservation are alcoholics and kill themselves

 

it's because they are mascots at colleges

 

maybe it's because those in power keep throwing their weight around.

 

"hey can we maybe have reservations that aren't out in the middle of the desert? it's not very fun there."

 

"well, we would but instead we decided to make a tribute to you with mascots. look, theres a guy who looks just like at a football game! isn't this better?"

 

"um."

 

You do know they can leave the reservation? It isn't a prison. They aren't forced to live in squalor.

 

i don't think it's that easy. the people who live at evergreen terrace in joliet (ok that's this HUD project close to me that's causing this huge controversy because it's this disguisting cesspool of violence, crime, and filth and congress wants the city to condemn it or buy it and the douchebag who owns it won't sell it and ugh it's a huge mess) have much choice. they just want a roof over their head. if an indian is still following the traditions that their ancestors did, maybe they are obliged to be connected to the land in some way. i'm sure they aren't upper middle class indians who wear Abercrombie that are voluntarily living in squalor, it's just not that simple.

[treebird]

hmmm i wonder why people who live on a reservation are alcoholics and kill themselves

 

it's because they are mascots at colleges

 

maybe it's because those in power keep throwing their weight around.

 

"hey can we maybe have reservations that aren't out in the middle of the desert? it's not very fun there."

 

"well, we would but instead we decided to make a tribute to you with mascots. look, theres a guy who looks just like at a football game! isn't this better?"

 

"um."

 

You do know they can leave the reservation? It isn't a prison. They aren't forced to live in squalor.

 

"hey you know how we killed all your ancestors and made them leave and they said hey you can have a little bit of land?"

 

"yeah"

 

"well its pretty crappy"

 

"yes i agree"

 

"so dont live there! leave the only thing physical thing you still have that has any connections to your past! ps- here's two tickets to an fsu game that will surely make you happy dont forget about the tribute!"

 

"um."

[treebird]

My great grandma got killed by a wildcat therefore i am offended by the use of such a creature as a mascot at all schools where a wildcat is a mascot. Also, cardinals crap on my car from time to time and im offended that such a dispicable creature is allowed to represent the university i go to so that needs to be changed as well.

 

 

 

That was awesome! Went to BSU myself. Treebeard, If anybody who was offended by something was able to get rid of it, what would be left?

 

people are legitimately offended my the native american thing. if people make up phony offenses (nice english johnny), we'll have to handle that then. i'm pretty sure this isn't that though.

[sonicdethmonkey0]

My great grandma got killed by a wildcat therefore i am offended by the use of such a creature as a mascot at all schools where a wildcat is a mascot. Also, cardinals crap on my car from time to time and im offended that such a dispicable creature is allowed to represent the university i go to so that needs to be changed as well.

 

 

 

That was awesome! Went to BSU myself. Treebeard, If anybody who was offended by something was able to get rid of it, what would be left?

 

that's not the argument. this wildcat thing, i mean, if you're serious, wow. indians are human beings. their traditions and beliefs are being lampooned in football games and colleges are making millions of dollars by selling merchandise with pictures of them on it.

 

"yeah, hi there... i'm a member of the seminole tribe, um, my people were brtually killed a couple hundred years ago in what's been argued as genocide by white people."

 

"yeah... um we're sorry about that."

 

"it's cool, i mean, it sucks and all, but yeah. could you just maybe not make my race the name of your football team? just because, you know, we're a really proud people, and we wouldn't want something that we really love and believe in to be thought of as something as irrelevant and silly as a sports team. it's just something we cherish."

 

"yeahhhhhh... no, sorry. we know you're offended, but we're not. i mean, we're white people, we would understand your plight."

 

"drag."

 

don't even open up the can of worms about people being pissed about god on the money and stuff, 'cause this thread is already good enough

[sonicdethmonkey0]

tree you jerk the fake dialogue i thought of first but i had to go get a tasty beverage

[treebird]

tree you jerk the fake dialogue i thought of first but i had to go get a tasty beverage

 

is your tasty beverage acid? (again)

[sonicdethmonkey0]

tree you jerk the fake dialogue i thought of first but i had to go get a tasty beverage

 

is your tasty beverage acid? (again)

 

actually it's a delicious snapple drink that combines the best of iced tea and lemonade into one yummy juice substance

[adamb0719]

I agree that people are really offended by the moscot thing. However there also seems to be those that are not offended by it. I was responding to your claim that is someone is offended by something it has to go (im paraphrasing, think I have it right). While some Native Americans are offended, some are not. If the mascots have to go [/i]that have the approval of the tribes because another group does not approve then where is the line drawn? There is always a group making a scene about something they find offensive. IMO it is a no win situation for anyone involved. Obviously the schools lose, but some Native Americans who felt they were being tributed lose as well. So in a way it is a phony offensev (in certain schools cases). If the tribe being used is not offended then why the is it being removed? In no way am I condoning the use of derogatory mascot names. Those should go; the ones with universal disapproval. However the one's that are not derogatary, and are supported should be allowed to stay. I hope this makes sense.

[treebird]

I agree that people are really offended by the moscot thing. However there also seems to be those that are not offended by it. I was responding to your claim that is someone is offended by something it has to go (im paraphrasing, think I have it right). While some Native Americans are offended, some are not. If the mascots have to go [/i]that have the approval of the tribes because another group does not approve then where is the line drawn? There is always a group making a scene about something they find offensive. IMO it is a no win situation for anyone involved. Obviously the schools lose, but some Native Americans who felt they were being tributed lose as well. So in a way it is a phony offensev (in certain schools cases). If the tribe being used is not offended then why the is it being removed? In no way am I condoning the use of derogatory mascot names. Those should go; the ones with universal disapproval. However the one's that are not derogatary, and are supported should be allowed to stay. I hope this makes sense.

 

do you really think there are native americans who wake up and think "it's a good day to be alive, i'm being tributed by that guy at the football game."?

 

People say they are offended. We should cut the mascots. That's it as far as I'm concerned.

 

Another interesting argument is that the schools would MAKE money by changing. Everybody would go crazy buying up the old mascot stuff before it was discontued, and then everyone would have to buy new stuff when it came out. I don't think the schools lose at all.

[adamb0719]

sonicdethmonkey0

was not implying that your grandma getting killed by a wildcat was awesome (or true). I just thought that what you wrote was humorous. Also it was implying what I was trying to say, that everyone has a complaint about something and where do you draw the line? Maybe that is not what you were trying to say and I just musread it. By awesome it meant humorous. Sorry if that was unclear.

 

Also dont know why the last half of my last message was in italics. No purpse behind that.

 

Edit: Sorry got confused about who was writing what. This might make no sense.

Edited August 6, 2005 by adamb0719

[dougdescenzo]

that's not the argument. this wildcat thing, i mean, if you're serious, wow. indians are human beings. their traditions and beliefs are being lampooned in football games and colleges are making millions of dollars by selling merchandise with pictures of them on it.

 

"yeah, hi there... i'm a member of the seminole tribe, um, my people were brtually killed a couple hundred years ago in what's been argued as genocide by white people."

 

"yeah... um we're sorry about that."

 

"it's cool, i mean, it sucks and all, but yeah. could you just maybe not make my race the name of your football team? just because, you know, we're a really proud people, and we wouldn't want something that we really love and believe in to be thought of as something as irrelevant and silly as a sports team. it's just something we cherish."

 

"yeahhhhhh... no, sorry. we know you're offended, but we're not. i mean, we're white people, we would understand your plight."

 

"drag."

 

The story about my great grandmother was as fictional as that dialogue you just wrote...here in Indiana there are plenty of mascots that are based off of white men such as the Andrean 59ers, Mishawaka Cavemen, Jimtown Jimmies, Floyd Central Highlanders, Plymouth Pilgrims....etc and not once has any discussion been had about replacing those. All have ridiculous mascots who dance around at games as well. Surely there are some relatives of those folks (well save for cavemen) who would be offended you say? I say NO because its A DANG SPORTS MASCOT

[adamb0719]

Treebeard-

Good point I did not think of the possiblity of the rush for the merchandise. That is an interesting angle. However I do thinki that there will be a great cost in changing logos throughout the school. and redesigning all new merchandise. Have no clue what kind or anything so that is all speculation. Also I do think that the offensive names should be removed, but I am curious: at what point do you draw the line? In no way do I think that Native Americans wake up and say "it's a good day to be alive, i'm being tributed by that guy at the football game."? I just get the impression that some of these names are not offensive to all NA's. The only point I am trying to make is a line has to be drawn at some point. It is not possible to please everyone IMO.