Larry Walker pulls an A-Rod.....

[jjgman21]

 

I'm being perfectly honest when I say that I never saw these kinds of actions from him before he became a Cardinal.

 

Sure, because you weren't looking for them. Did you watch a lot of Rockies games, by the way?

 

possibly. but guys that argue balls and strikes generally don't get the 'one of the best guys in baseball' tag put on them. guys that intentionally try to interfere with throws don't have reputations for sportsmanship and fair play like Walker. so maybe its not just a matter of observation.

[EastonBlues22]

he also p's and moans about every called strike, ala Edmonds.

 

I don't know how many Cards games you watch, but I've only missed about ten this year, and I have no idea what you're talking about with Walker complaining about the strike zone. Edmonds does so all the time, sometimes with words, sometimes with looks, but I can't even remember a single instance of Walker complaining about a strike or ball call. He just steps out and readjusts his gloves, then steps back in. He doesn't even look back.

 

There's a lot of people who bitch and moan in baseball, and even on the Cardinals, but Walker's not one of them.

[genghiskhan]

A runner is entitled to the basepath. It is illegal for a fielder to obstruct the runner's way. Hence it was not illegal for Walker to put a hand on the pitcher's back, any more than it is illegal for a runner to knock over a catcher on a play at the plate. OTOH, it is illegal for a runner to swat a ball out of a fielder's glove, as A-Rod did.

 

I'm pretty sure the fielder is entitlted to the basepath as long as he is fielding the ball. I didn't see the play, so I can't really judge in this case, but I don't think a runner has a right to knock a fielder out of the way that is fielding a throw, regardless of where they are in the basepath.

 

 

Well, then what about a catcher blocking home plate? Nobody ever calls the runner coming from home out for interference when he plows the catcher over. The runner is entitled to the basepath, right? As long as he does not deliberately deflect the ball or pull an A-Rod and attempt to swat the ball out of the fielder's glove, I think giving a shove to a fielder as you run to first base is legal.

[gus_dog]

A runner is entitled to the basepath. It is illegal for a fielder to obstruct the runner's way. Hence it was not illegal for Walker to put a hand on the pitcher's back, any more than it is illegal for a runner to knock over a catcher on a play at the plate. OTOH, it is illegal for a runner to swat a ball out of a fielder's glove, as A-Rod did.

 

I'm pretty sure the fielder is entitlted to the basepath as long as he is fielding the ball. I didn't see the play, so I can't really judge in this case, but I don't think a runner has a right to knock a fielder out of the way that is fielding a throw, regardless of where they are in the basepath.

 

 

Well, then what about a catcher blocking home plate? Nobody ever calls the runner coming from home out for interference when he plows the catcher over. The runner is entitled to the basepath, right? As long as he does not deliberately deflect the ball or pull an A-Rod and attempt to swat the ball out of the fielder's glove, I think giving a shove to a fielder as you run to first base is legal.

 

See Mark prior's interference with Marcus Giles a couple of years ago. Prior was in the basepath, but the baserunner MUST yield to the fielder to allow that fielder to make a play on a batted ball. Otherwise, the baserunner is out.

 

This case is different because Jennings was not fielding a batted ball, but attempting to catch a throw from a teammate.

[genghiskhan]

I can read, so there's no need to reprint your own post. And since you admit in that reprinted post that Jennings was not fielding a batted ball, but taking a throw from another fielder, your reprinted post is not relevant.

 

I await your explanation on why it wasn't OK for Walker to shove Jennings if it is OK for a runner to bowl over a catcher on a play at the plate on what is essentially the exact same situation.

[gus_dog]

I can read, so there's no need to reprint your own post. And since you admit in that reprinted post that Jennings was not fielding a batted ball, but taking a throw from another fielder, your reprinted post is not relevant.

 

I await your explanation on why it wasn't OK for Walker to shove Jennings if it is OK for a runner to bowl over a catcher on a play at the plate on what is essentially the exact same situation.

 

My post was relevant, and I didn't have a problem with Walker running over anyone taking a throw and blocking his way to the base (just like when a runner bowls over a catcher who is blocking the plate). We agree..., I think...?

 

If a baserunner leaves the baseline to interfere, it is interference, but I believe that the runner is entitled to the base line (and base) as long as he does not interfere with a batted ball (or fielder trying to field a batted ball). Then he is out. Even if a runner inadvertantly interferes with a batted ball, he is out. That happened the other night in the Cubs/Marlins game when a runner was hit by the batted ball.

[genghiskhan]

We agree..., I think...?

 

OK, I stand corrected. Sorry about that.

 

I remember Vince Coleman many years ago getting picked off first base and then trying to swat the ball out of the first baseman's glove...that was ugly...

[gus_dog]

Just like when Fick & Rodriguez tried to knock the ball loose. The player making the putout was NOT blocking their path to the base, and they had to INTENTIONALLY go out of their way to try to interfere, therefore, they were both called out. Although, I think that Fick was already out before he pulled his bush-league play.

 

I think the rule says that a runner may not intentionally interfere with the play.

[jjgman21]

he also p's and moans about every called strike, ala Edmonds.

 

I don't know how many Cards games you watch, but I've only missed about ten this year, and I have no idea what you're talking about with Walker complaining about the strike zone. Edmonds does so all the time, sometimes with words, sometimes with looks, but I can't even remember a single instance of Walker complaining about a strike or ball call. He just steps out and readjusts his gloves, then steps back in. He doesn't even look back.

 

There's a lot of people who bitch and moan in baseball, and even on the Cardinals, but Walker's not one of them.

 

admittedly not alot this year. alot of my accusations come from what I saw of Walker last year. I recall seeing a highlight on BBT where he took a called third, right down the middle, in a key situation (of a pretty meaningless game). he turned and ranted and raved to an extent that would have gotten Alou ejected for sure. I thought to myself 'that's strange, I never saw Walker argue like that before.' then about a week later, I saw another highlight with him doing the exact same thing. a couple weeks later, another. then I watched the post season, and thought there were 2 Edmonds.

 

the whole thing took me aback because I never saw such a quick transformation in a player from what that never argued to one that argued without just cause. that is why I remember it so clearly.

 

then again, maybe my memory of Walker is a little skewed, for most of the time I have watched him playing it was against the Cubs. pretty hard to argue called strikes when there aren't any.

[Lowblow]

I didn't see the play in question, but the comparison with the actions of a runner running into a catcher blocking home plate are only apt it the fielder was attempting to deny the runner access to the base.

 

The runner has the advantage of being able to see whether there is going to be a potential collision at first base, so therefore the burden is on him. If a collision can be avoided while still offering him an opportunity to get to the base, then he (the runner) is obligated to avoid the collision. There is a good reason that the baseline to first base is in foul territory: the playing field generally belongs to the player attempting to make defensive plays (who often has no opportunity to protect himself from runners with full view of potential collisions).