Cubs sign Jason Adam

[squally1313]

 

You were happy with the bullpen last year?

 

There's nothing wrong with stockpiling LIAB guys with options in the hope that a couple of them will come through like Wick. It's when you're depending on them to be the staple guys in the pen that you're inviting disaster. And counting on a guy like Wick to be able to sustain his success - as much as I like him - is a big gamble in itself.

 

As for Ryan and Wieck, the former wasn't actually all that great and the latter was far too small a sample size to draw any conclusions about.

Sure it's a gamble and inviting disaster to a degree, but so is signing vets and depending on them like Brach, Carl, Duensing, etc of years past. Of course I wasn't happy with it but the point was they were able to take unknowns and find something with 3 guys, I have faith they can do it again. My biggest gripe with the pen last year was they weren't aggressive with getting guys up sooner because they were stuck with bad vets without options. Wick should've been up much sooner. Joe also seemed to make the wrong mistakes often (no entirely his fault given the talent wasn't great but he managed the pen poorly).

 

How wasn't Ryan all that great? ERA/FIP in the 3s, good GB rate (13th best GB rate of all qualified RPs), limited HR's, good enough K numbers, BB were a bit high but he's been better in that area before, he was really good vs lefties and adequate enough vs RHB to be able to face 1-2 in an outing with the new 3 batter rule. He also changed up his pitch mix a bit from previous years (more cutters and curves and cut back FB usage and essentially stopped throwing his change). As a guy who projects to be the 3rd to 6th best RP (depending on how things shake out) I think he's plenty solid. Wieck obviously was a small sample but the eye test and numbers say he was really good, again also changed his pitch mix once he came over.

 

The difference is that with vets you have some level of expectation when being brought in. You don't know what to expect when bringing in untested, young pitchers. As you said, it's great if you discover one, but the risk is high if you're a contending team. Of course, we didn't have any choice with PTR crying about the LT.

 

Do you really know what you're getting with veterans? Go ask the Cardinals how that worked for Andrew Miller, or the Mets after trading for Edwin Diaz (yes, not a veteran, but definitely established). Or look at how Kimbrel worked out in 2019. The difference with vets is if they hit a rough patch, or a rough year, or fall off a cliff entirely, there's nowhere to put them besides letting them continue to take up a valuable roster spot. The risk becomes high when you have to throw out a Brad Brach in the 5th inning of an 8-6 game because you couldn't send him down and there's no one else that's rested.

[ConstableRabbit]

 

You were happy with the bullpen last year?

 

There's nothing wrong with stockpiling LIAB guys with options in the hope that a couple of them will come through like Wick. It's when you're depending on them to be the staple guys in the pen that you're inviting disaster. And counting on a guy like Wick to be able to sustain his success - as much as I like him - is a big gamble in itself.

 

As for Ryan and Wieck, the former wasn't actually all that great and the latter was far too small a sample size to draw any conclusions about.

Sure it's a gamble and inviting disaster to a degree, but so is signing vets and depending on them like Brach, Carl, Duensing, etc of years past. Of course I wasn't happy with it but the point was they were able to take unknowns and find something with 3 guys, I have faith they can do it again. My biggest gripe with the pen last year was they weren't aggressive with getting guys up sooner because they were stuck with bad vets without options. Wick should've been up much sooner. Joe also seemed to make the wrong mistakes often (no entirely his fault given the talent wasn't great but he managed the pen poorly).

 

How wasn't Ryan all that great? ERA/FIP in the 3s, good GB rate (13th best GB rate of all qualified RPs), limited HR's, good enough K numbers, BB were a bit high but he's been better in that area before, he was really good vs lefties and adequate enough vs RHB to be able to face 1-2 in an outing with the new 3 batter rule. He also changed up his pitch mix a bit from previous years (more cutters and curves and cut back FB usage and essentially stopped throwing his change). As a guy who projects to be the 3rd to 6th best RP (depending on how things shake out) I think he's plenty solid. Wieck obviously was a small sample but the eye test and numbers say he was really good, again also changed his pitch mix once he came over.

 

The difference is that with vets you have some level of expectation when being brought in. You don't know what to expect when bringing in untested, young pitchers. As you said, it's great if you discover one, but the risk is high if you're a contending team. Of course, we didn't have any choice with PTR crying about the LT.

One of the reasons our pen sucked last year is that we depended on guys who had been good to very good before and tried to let them work it out before realizing that they just sucked.