Leonys Martin

[Tracer Bullet]

So if a prospect in the 2012 amateur draft gets a cup of coffee in September, he's eligible for next year's ML draft?

 

I'm just trying to be sure I understand bc that's not what my reading of the rules suggests.

[Quakers]

So if a prospect in the 2012 amateur draft gets a cup of coffee in September, he's eligible for next year's ML draft?

 

I'm just trying to be sure I understand bc that's not what my reading of the rules suggests.

 

 

The rules have been, and should be, if a player is selected in the major league draft, then he must be on the major league squad when it breaks out of spring training. If not, then the team who chose the player will lose him.

 

So it does not matter if a player has any major league experience. Who cares. It all depends on where the player starts the season. In the majors (including on the DL), then he can be selected in the major league draft. Everyone else must be chosen in the minor league draft, but if they are to be put in your minor leagues they have to meet the conditions for being there.

 

So, if Martins starts the year in the majors then Tim gets him. If he starts the year in the minors, then whoever selected him in the minor league draft gets him, or he has to be picked up as a free agent.

[Guest]

from the rules:

 

"Prospects may only be selected during the prospect draft to be held annually each August. Players cannot be selected through waivers until they are on a major league roster (including expanded 40 man rosters in September)."

 

ie, once a player is on a major league roster, they can be picked up by waivers and subsequently by major league draft.

[Tracer Bullet]

So a team that's done (like truffle, whose ML roster is full in 7 rounds) can pick prospects in the last few rounds and if they happen to start in the majors - great, if not, no loss?

 

Besides, we decided different rules applied to IFAs - Tim named Soler and Concepcion the only minor leaguers and the rest in the ML draft. He also said that if Darvish or Cespedes or any of the others start in the minors, they won't be subject to the normal rule.

 

And since Soler wasn't signed when the draft started, he's not eligible to be drafted until 2013. So he can't be added as a FA in 2012. Per Tim's message, he's in the 2012 draft. If this rule applied, I'm going to draft Soler in the latter rounds of the 2013 draft b/c - hey nothing lost if he doesn't start with the majors.

 

Since Martin also wasn't signed when the 2011 draft started, he wasn't eligible as a FA. So he should be in the 2012 prospect draft. If not, these things need to be more clear at the start of the draft since everyone but the person who drafted him didn't know if he was eligible.

[Guest]

the rule is pretty clear to me with regard to martin. I disagree with the IFA exceptions. I have no problem with you drafting solar and then losing him if you want. sort of unsporting to find ways around the rules in my opinion though.

[Tracer Bullet]

the rule is pretty clear to me with regard to martin. I disagree with the IFA exceptions. I have no problem with you drafting solar and then losing him if you want. sort of unsporting to find ways around the rules in my opinion though.

 

given that more than one team didn't think Martin was eligible in the ML draft, I don't think the rules were clear.

[Guest]

the rule is pretty clear to me with regard to martin. I disagree with the IFA exceptions. I have no problem with you drafting solar and then losing him if you want. sort of unsporting to find ways around the rules in my opinion though.

 

given that more than one team didn't think Martin was eligible in the ML draft, I don't think the rules were clear.

 

 

actually, I think that is because people didn't read the rules or check that Martin had major league at bats not because it isn't clear.

[Guest]

In the whole earlier conversation, I had totally forgotten he got that quick showcase last year. Otherwise I would have led my argument with the fact that he is, in fact, an established major leaguer and therefore eligible for the MLB draft.

[TruffleShuffle]

Since Martin also wasn't signed when the 2011 draft started, he wasn't eligible as a FA. So he should be in the 2012 prospect draft. If not, these things need to be more clear at the start of the draft since everyone but the person who drafted him didn't know if he was eligible.

 

i think this is the simplest way to do things. trevor bauer was rumored to have almost been called up for the diamondbacks in september, because he was destroying the low minors and they thought maybe he could help as a bullpen arm. it didn't happen, but to me it's silly to allow whoever's nearest to the computer when they find out that trevor bauer has been called up on september 5th to claim him and keep him, or for him to be exposed to the mlb draft the following year. if there are japanese or cuban players who come over and are clearly major league ready, i'm fine with them going into the major league draft the following year, but i think the rule should be that all rule 4 draftees or young international signees since the previous year's draft should be in the minor league (prospect) draft only.

[Tracer Bullet]

In the whole earlier conversation, I had totally forgotten he got that quick showcase last year. Otherwise I would have led my argument with the fact that he is, in fact, an established major leaguer and therefore eligible for the MLB draft.

 

Who was the young SP that got ML innings the year he was drafted. A tiger, I think. If I'm at my computer, I can add him that day and keep him?

[Guest]

In the whole earlier conversation, I had totally forgotten he got that quick showcase last year. Otherwise I would have led my argument with the fact that he is, in fact, an established major leaguer and therefore eligible for the MLB draft.

 

Who was the young SP that got ML innings the year he was drafted. A tiger, I think. If I'm at my computer, I can add him that day and keep him?

Talk to Navin about Chris Sale.

[Tracer Bullet]

the rule is pretty clear to me with regard to martin. I disagree with the IFA exceptions. I have no problem with you drafting solar and then losing him if you want. sort of unsporting to find ways around the rules in my opinion though.

 

given that more than one team didn't think Martin was eligible in the ML draft, I don't think the rules were clear.

 

 

actually, I think that is because people didn't read the rules or check that Martin had major league at bats not because it isn't clear.

 

I disagree.

[TruffleShuffle]

honestly, making the rules different for a guy because he got 8 plate appearances in blowouts and meaningless games during a period when teams have 85 players in their dugout is silly.

[Guest]

The principle involved here isn't that the prospect was signed/drafted last year. The principle is that he made a major league team.

 

If he weren't on a major league team, Rizzo would be eligible for the major league draft because he made the Padres last year.

 

Rubby de la Rosa was a great pick for Quakers because he had made a few starts last year and was major league eligible.

 

I could probably post 50 examples here, but the principle is the same. Once a player has established himself as a major league player, he's eligible in the major league draft.

[TruffleShuffle]

guys who get called up with expanded rosters in september and play in a game or two are hardly established major league players. xavier nady had a clause in his contract mandating that he get a september call up the year he was drafted. his first professional at bat was for the padres in 2001, then after that single plate appearance, he didn't have another major league at bat until 2004. going into 2002 he was about as much an established major league player as i was.

 

i understand your position, i'm just saying that it is (or would be) a bad rule.

[Guest]

guys who get called up with expanded rosters in september and play in a game or two are hardly established major league players. xavier nady had a clause in his contract mandating that he get a september call up the year he was drafted. his first professional at bat was for the padres in 2001, then after that single plate appearance, he didn't have another major league at bat until 2004. going into 2002 he was about as much an established major league player as i was.

 

i understand your position, i'm just saying that it is (or would be) a bad rule.

Where do you draw the line?

[TruffleShuffle]

guys who get called up with expanded rosters in september and play in a game or two are hardly established major league players. xavier nady had a clause in his contract mandating that he get a september call up the year he was drafted. his first professional at bat was for the padres in 2001, then after that single plate appearance, he didn't have another major league at bat until 2004. going into 2002 he was about as much an established major league player as i was.

 

i understand your position, i'm just saying that it is (or would be) a bad rule.

Where do you draw the line?

 

i already said, i'd make all rule 4 draftees and young international signees not eligible until the following year's draft. there are a small enough number of cuban defectors and japanese players coming in that they can be decided on a case-by-case basis. most will be quite obvious (like darvish and cespedes being major league eligible, and guys like soler/conception only eligible for the prospect draft).

[moochpuppy]

from the rules:

 

"Prospects may only be selected during the prospect draft to be held annually each August. Players cannot be selected through waivers until they are on a major league roster (including expanded 40 man rosters in September)."

 

ie, once a player is on a major league roster, they can be picked up by waivers and subsequently by major league draft.

 

I believe this is correct. I remember something similar happening in the same season Chris Sale was drafted. He was drafted in June...was in the majors shortly thereafter and then was claimed on waivers that same season.

[Quakers]

I would say that I like how the rule is now. Let's keep things simple. I do not want endless debates on who is, or is not, eligible. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

 

So right now, I have drafted Addison Reed. He had a brief showing last spring and looks fairly certain to make the club out of spring training. He may not be the closer, but that is another story. If someone selected him in the prospect draft (he is on BA's top 100 list), then he could claim Addison if he does not make the cut and is sent to the minors. If no one selects him in the prospect draft and he does not make the cut, then he would be put on the waiver wire. I think that is fair and simple.

[Tracer Bullet]

I would say that I like how the rule is now. Let's keep things simple. I do not want endless debates on who is, or is not, eligible. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

 

So right now, I have drafted Addison Reed. He had a brief showing last spring and looks fairly certain to make the club out of spring training. He may not be the closer, but that is another story. If someone selected him in the prospect draft (he is on BA's top 100 list), then he could claim Addison if he does not make the cut and is sent to the minors. If no one selects him in the prospect draft and he does not make the cut, then he would be put on the waiver wire. I think that is fair and simple.

 

Reed was drafted by MLB in 2010. He could have been drafted in our prospect draft in 2011, so I'm less concerned about that.

[tadowdaddy]

Gotta agree with Tim on this one...

[Guest]

from the rules:

 

"Prospects may only be selected during the prospect draft to be held annually each August. Players cannot be selected through waivers until they are on a major league roster (including expanded 40 man rosters in September)."

 

ie, once a player is on a major league roster, they can be picked up by waivers and subsequently by major league draft.

 

I believe this is correct. I remember something similar happening in the same season Chris Sale was drafted. He was drafted in June...was in the majors shortly thereafter and then was claimed on waivers that same season.

 

As Tim alluded to, that would be me.

 

I don't mind if we are changing the rules, though I don't know that it matters too much going forward as I believe guys making it up the September they are drafted is going to go away with the new CBA. By the rules we had previously, Martin should belong to Tim.

[Quakers]

from the rules:

 

"Prospects may only be selected during the prospect draft to be held annually each August. Players cannot be selected through waivers until they are on a major league roster (including expanded 40 man rosters in September)."

 

ie, once a player is on a major league roster, they can be picked up by waivers and subsequently by major league draft.

 

I believe this is correct. I remember something similar happening in the same season Chris Sale was drafted. He was drafted in June...was in the majors shortly thereafter and then was claimed on waivers that same season.

 

As Tim alluded to, that would be me.

 

I don't mind if we are changing the rules, though I don't know that it matters too much going forward as I believe guys making it up the September they are drafted is going to go away with the new CBA. By the rules we had previously, Martin should belong to Tim.

 

So am I wrong here? My understanding of the rule was that even though Martin played in the majors last year, the answer to the question if Tim could keep him would be determined if he made the cut at the end of spring and was with the Rangers on opening day.

[Quakers]

I also do not want to change the rules n the middle of the draft. We can always argue the changes to be made in next year's draft later.

[Tracer Bullet]

Ok that wasn't my understanding but if any prospect can be added via waivers or FA once they're called up, then Martin is Tim's as long as he breaks camp with the ML team. Is that right?