Good HBT analysis of the last 2 postseason debacles

[circlechange]

The Cubs may have been pressing, but it's not because of the last week of the season and it's not because of trying to end a 100 year drought.

 

This is true.

 

What? Of course that's part of the equation. You think the players don't know the history? You think they don't want to be part of the team that FINALLY does it? Heck, DeRosa even said (on his blog?) after the playoffs that they wanted so badly to finally do it.

 

 

Every player in the playoffs wants terribly to win. They wouldn't be professional athletes if they thought otherwise. I don't buy the pressing cause of 100 years.

 

SSR - Wow. I think this is the first time I've ever completely disagreed with something that you have written, usually I think that you've condensed my thoughts into something more intelligent, eloquent, and/or humorous and posted them.

 

I'm sure that everyone wants to win, but certainly there are some athletes that care less than others. I've heard many athletes that talk about how it's just a game or just their job, and yeah it's more fun to make millions and play a game but they don't have an intense passion for the game. How many of us on NSBB would jump at the chance to earn our same salary but do it playing baseball vs. how many major leaguers would be registered at any baseball forum if they never played professionally? I just don't think that all ballplayers have an intense drive that has helped them get where they are. Intense talent, sure.

 

I definitely believe that the pressure affected this team, and I believe that the pressure has risen dramatically in the last 10 years and especially since 2003. Up through around 2000 I think that the team and especially the fans were happy to get anything successful. Of course growing up I wanted those '84 / '89 / '98 teams to do better, but even making the post-season was a treat. Something started changing, though, and I'm not sure when, but the Cubs started having payrolls consistently near the top of the league, every game was sold out or at least sold to the point that you didn't see large expanses of empty seats, fans actually started booing their own players, expectations grew.

 

2003 was an almost unfathomable heartbreak, 2004 and 2005 saw the Sox teams end their droughts, by the time we get to 2008 the fans have dealt with not only those things above but the 2004 collapse, the Cards and Red Sox again winning the WS, the 2007 playoff whimper. We've had a taste, been close to success for 5 years but have never reached a point greater than the 2003 NLDS. As silly as it is, the change in 'drought years' to triple digits seemed somehow more significant. I think all of those things build up, and I think the players know it. Suddenly the guys that have the "it's just a game/job" attitude see how important it is to the fans. I truly think that this might be the only team in history that wanted to win more for their fans than for themselves. Perhaps the 2004 Red Sox were the same way, but weren't they sorta happy-go-lucky calling themselves the Idiots and even they had reached a point where there was so little chance of a comeback that the pressure was essentially off.

 

I don't think that the pressure was the sole cause of the loss, of course. I don't think that it is impossible for the Cubs to ever overcome that pressure. But watching those three games, it just seemed like the pressure was a factor, and that it was a pressure unlike any I can ever remember or have heard about (in sports).

[Balsa]

It was a fun article, but it smacks of the stuff that I'd read in SI or ESPN. To summarize my interpretation:

 

"Well, we don't know why they lost these games, and we can't put it on one player since they ALL sucked so bad, so I guess it has to be the manager. And then we'll nitpick about how he rested players or didn't rest them or any other action deemed no longer good".

 

Maybe he should have given a better motivational speech? :roll:

[SCCubbieFAN]

IMO they were under pressure, but they also ran into a Dodger team that had played very good ball over the month of Sept and seemed to be clicking on all cylinders at the right time.

[KingCubsFan]

IMO they were under pressure, but they also ran into a Dodger team that had played very good ball over the month of Sept and seemed to be clicking on all cylinders at the right time.

So all those cylinders un-clicked right after they demolished the Cubs?

[SCCubbieFAN]

IMO they were under pressure, but they also ran into a Dodger team that had played very good ball over the month of Sept and seemed to be clicking on all cylinders at the right time.

So all those cylinders un-clicked right after they demolished the Cubs?

 

Like I said, "IMO"; and "the right time" being the 1st round of the playoffs. By the time the Dodgers got to the Phillies in the 2nd round, the Phillies had gained their own momentum.

[Butterscup1679666578]

IMO they were under pressure, but they also ran into a Dodger team that had played very good ball over the month of Sept and seemed to be clicking on all cylinders at the right time.

So all those cylinders un-clicked right after they demolished the Cubs?

 

Like I said, "IMO"; and "the right time" being the 1st round of the playoffs. By the time the Dodgers got to the Phillies in the 2nd round, the Phillies had gained their own momentum.

 

I think you're completely overestimating the role momentum has in baseball, but that's just me.

[UMFan83]

IMO they were under pressure, but they also ran into a Dodger team that had played very good ball over the month of Sept and seemed to be clicking on all cylinders at the right time.

So all those cylinders un-clicked right after they demolished the Cubs?

 

Like I said, "IMO"; and "the right time" being the 1st round of the playoffs. By the time the Dodgers got to the Phillies in the 2nd round, the Phillies had gained their own momentum.

 

I think you're completely overestimating the role momentum has in baseball, but that's just me.

 

If you can't quantify it, it doesn't exist

[Butterscup1679666578]

IMO they were under pressure, but they also ran into a Dodger team that had played very good ball over the month of Sept and seemed to be clicking on all cylinders at the right time.

So all those cylinders un-clicked right after they demolished the Cubs?

 

Like I said, "IMO"; and "the right time" being the 1st round of the playoffs. By the time the Dodgers got to the Phillies in the 2nd round, the Phillies had gained their own momentum.

 

I think you're completely overestimating the role momentum has in baseball, but that's just me.

 

If you can't quantify it, it doesn't exist

 

I assume you're being sarcastic, so I'll respond.

 

I'm not saying momentum doesn't exist in baseball, but I don't think it has that big of an impact due to the pace of a game. In football or basketball for instance, it's so fast-paced that a few big plays in a row can get you (and the crowd) going for an entire drive, quarter, game, whatever. I don't have that same feeling with baseball. A big catch or a big strikeout can definitely carry over, but I don't feel that momentum in baseball carries over from game to game all that much.

[SCCubbieFAN]

IMO they were under pressure, but they also ran into a Dodger team that had played very good ball over the month of Sept and seemed to be clicking on all cylinders at the right time.

So all those cylinders un-clicked right after they demolished the Cubs?

 

Like I said, "IMO"; and "the right time" being the 1st round of the playoffs. By the time the Dodgers got to the Phillies in the 2nd round, the Phillies had gained their own momentum.

 

I think you're completely overestimating the role momentum has in baseball, but that's just me.

 

If you can't quantify it, it doesn't exist

 

I assume you're being sarcastic, so I'll respond.

 

I'm not saying momentum doesn't exist in baseball, but I don't think it has that big of an impact due to the pace of a game. In football or basketball for instance, it's so fast-paced that a few big plays in a row can get you (and the crowd) going for an entire drive, quarter, game, whatever. I don't have that same feeling with baseball. A big catch or a big strikeout can definitely carry over, but I don't feel that momentum in baseball carries over from game to game all that much.

 

 

My comment was based on what I had heard about the Dodgers since Manny came over and the team's level of play over the month of Sept. The stats are as follows:

 

Since July 1, all three had similar records: the Cubs were 47-30 , Phils 47-31, and LA 45-34. During Sept. the Phils and LA both went 17-8 and the Cubs just 12-12.

 

During Sept:Dodgers .293, .380, .454, .843

Cubs .287, .350, .446, .796

Phils .263, .329, .483, .812

[KingCubsFan]

IMO they were under pressure, but they also ran into a Dodger team that had played very good ball over the month of Sept and seemed to be clicking on all cylinders at the right time.

So all those cylinders un-clicked right after they demolished the Cubs?

 

Like I said, "IMO"; and "the right time" being the 1st round of the playoffs. By the time the Dodgers got to the Phillies in the 2nd round, the Phillies had gained their own momentum.

 

I think you're completely overestimating the role momentum has in baseball, but that's just me.

 

If you can't quantify it, it doesn't exist

 

I assume you're being sarcastic, so I'll respond.

 

I'm not saying momentum doesn't exist in baseball, but I don't think it has that big of an impact due to the pace of a game. In football or basketball for instance, it's so fast-paced that a few big plays in a row can get you (and the crowd) going for an entire drive, quarter, game, whatever. I don't have that same feeling with baseball. A big catch or a big strikeout can definitely carry over, but I don't feel that momentum in baseball carries over from game to game all that much.

 

 

My comment was based on what I had heard about the Dodgers since Manny came over and the team's level of play over the month of Sept. The stats are as follows:

 

Since July 1, all three had similar records: the Cubs were 47-30 , Phils 47-31, and LA 45-34. During Sept. the Phils and LA both went 17-8 and the Cubs just 12-12.

 

During Sept:Dodgers .293, .380, .454, .843

Cubs .287, .350, .446, .796

Phils .263, .329, .483, .812

And the Dodgers went 3-4 while the Cubs went 4-4 in the final week of the season. Most of those stats came from the Dodgers strong streak early in September. Why is it so hard to admit the Cubs flat-out choked in the playoffs? The Cubs could have run into the Royals after a 12 game losing streak and gotten swept with how they played.