Vitters and his slow start

[Balsa]

Not only did Vitters not face any competition from the end of the HS season until now, but he was quoted as saying he kept his workouts as light as possible because he didn't want to risk injury. The fact that he struggled in his first week at the highest level of competition he's ever played at after doing basically nothing baseball-wise for several months is not a surprise at all.

Exactly. I'm not disappointed because I didn't expect anything at all.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I read more on these boards than I post, but I've noticed you guys LOVE to criticize young players who don't immediately do well.

Actually, "us guys" are composed of people that:

 

1) love to slam young players before they ever have a chance

2) love to slam young players who don't fit a certain profile

3) give too much credit to young players when projecting their minor league numbers to the bigs

4) lots of other varieties of "us"

 

You forgot the all-important category #5, which includes people who are massively sarcastic.

 

When it became clear Vitters wasn't going to sign until late in the proceedings, I knew there was going to be an extraordinarily limited period of time to judge Vitters. Unless he came to Mesa and proceeded to tear the cover off the ball to an extraordinary degree, he pretty much was going to be #3 on my personal list no matter what.

 

Next season is going to be critical for evaluating him. If he keeps in good shape and works hard in the offseason, then comes into Spring Training looking smooth in the field and at the plate, then he should start off in Peoria. From there, we'll have a full season with plenty of guys on this board getting a first-hand look at him.

 

After next season, we'll have a better idea of what he's capable of. He has the potential to deliver in a big way, happily.

 

So O_O is part of the Wait And See Tribe?

 

(C'mon, someone's gotta get the reference.)

 

got it -- that was just on yesterday or the day before

[wvcbxl]

To me, anything Vitters does this year outside of Instructional League is completely irrelevant. I'm with O_O on this one.

[badnews]

I didn't compare Chamberlain to Vitters. I said it usually takes very little time for our prospects to get leapfrogged by guys drafted lower than them, and if you look at our past drafts, that is certainly the case. It took Chamberlain no time at all to look like a better pick than Colvin.

 

People make a big deal out of how quick some are to get pessimistic about our signings. But the pessimists have been right the vast majority of the time. How does a team go, what, 14 years, without developing a true impact position player? Until that happens, I think the burden of proof is on the organization.

 

Vitters recently turned up on Baseball America's Not So Hot sheet,

 

I don't understand why people have to wait 5 years to say they don't like a pick. I don't like picks like Aaron Poreda or Nick Schmidt in the first round either. Waiting 5 years to say it just makes it look like you're afraid to put down any feelings at all until you have nothing to lose by doing so. Message boards are for speculating.

 

I didn't say Vitters was the worst pick, but I have no faith in the Cubs' ability to develop a high school positional talent, and with their track record, it's up to the organization to prove my doubts wrong.

 

How much benefit of the doubt would you give to a drunk who fell off the wagon this many times? "But this time is different and has nothing to do with last time." Well, I've heard that before.

 

Also, these extravagant promises don't help either. When Wilken came aboard people kept talking about his 2004 draft. Wade Davis in the 3rd! Jacob McGee in the 5th! Andy Sonnanstine in the 14th! It took mere months after they were drafted for people to see they were steals for their round, Jacob McGee wasn't a high priced signing, I ask, where is the Cubs' Jacob McGee from the 2006 draft?

 

People say "The drafts take time." Well, the 2004 draft didn't need time to look like a success. I guess they should stop referencing it then.

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't understand why people have to wait 5 years to say they don't like a pick.

 

i said it before they picked vitters. i don't think he'll play a single game at the big league level... hopefully i'm wrong.

[badnews]

Well, we're more or less on the same side... I don't think I'd commit that far, but my point is, whenever you dare to have an opinion on a draft pick, people freak out and say "He's 17 and you already think he's awful! Give me some time!" Well, you can "give him time" but still have an opinion, is what I'm saying to the others. I don't think you can't have an opinion for 5 years because it "takes away" the players' time.

[chattbaseball]

People make a big deal out of how quick some are to get pessimistic about our signings. But the pessimists have been right the vast majority of the time. How does a team go, what, 14 years, without developing a true impact position player? Until that happens, I think the burden of proof is on the organization.

 

I don't understand why people have to wait 5 years to say they don't like a pick. I don't like picks like Aaron Poreda or Nick Schmidt in the first round either. Waiting 5 years to say it just makes it look like you're afraid to put down any feelings at all until you have nothing to lose by doing so. Message boards are for speculating.

 

I didn't say Vitters was the worst pick, but I have no faith in the Cubs' ability to develop a high school positional talent, and with their track record, it's up to the organization to prove my doubts wrong.

 

People say "The drafts take time." Well, the 2004 draft didn't need time to look like a success. I guess they should stop referencing it then.

 

You're right, pessimists are right the majority of the time....BECAUSE THATS THE WAY BASEBALL IS!!! Any player that ever makes it to the big leagues is in the MINORITY! And that's strictly because of the numbers! You make some valid points, but it's still ridiculous to be so pessimistic about a 17 year old kid.....You are entitled to your opinion though, no matter how kooky it may be!

[Guest]

I don't mind people being pessimistic about Vitters at this point. But I do mind people calling him a bust, wasted pick, etc. There's a subtle but important difference between those statements.

 

And it really irritates me to see people that feel they have to express their negative opinion of him each and every single time his name is mentioned. We get the point already.

[Bruno7481]

I don't understand why people have to wait 5 years to say they don't like a pick.

 

i said it before they picked vitters. i don't think he'll play a single game at the big league level... hopefully i'm wrong.

 

I'm not saying your wrong, or right, but how in the world do you come to that conclusion?

 

Your able to come to that conclusion by reading a few scouting reports about him online?

 

You have never seen him play, you are relying totally on high school humbers and a limited professional season.

 

That just baffles me.

[Quakers]

From BA (Manuel's chat);

 

t.j. from Naperville, IL asks:

Josh Vitters has really struggled since turning pro, have you heard anything from scouts saying that is wrong mechanically or is it just him getting use to better competiton?

 

A: John Manuel: Actually, this was presaged in my draft writeup of Vitters: Vitters' his hand-eye coordination and ability to make contact are almost too good, because at times he swings at pitches he should let pass, rather than waiting for one he can punish with his all-fields power.

 

John Manuel: Now this didn't come from my observation; I've seen Vitters hit, but it was last summer in Cape Cod and I saw no flaws, he was ridiculously good. But the scouts I talked to about Josh said he might initially struggle in pro ball as he sees the kind of velocity and breaking balls consistently that you don't see in high school, because he so trusts his hands. He'll be fine; I have no concerns about his bat, because all the scouts I talked to about him believe he will hit.

 

 

Sounds like Vitters needs to work on pitch selectivity.

[chattbaseball]

From BA (Manuel's chat);

 

t.j. from Naperville, IL asks:

Josh Vitters has really struggled since turning pro, have you heard anything from scouts saying that is wrong mechanically or is it just him getting use to better competiton?

 

A: John Manuel: Actually, this was presaged in my draft writeup of Vitters: Vitters' his hand-eye coordination and ability to make contact are almost too good, because at times he swings at pitches he should let pass, rather than waiting for one he can punish with his all-fields power.

 

John Manuel: Now this didn't come from my observation; I've seen Vitters hit, but it was last summer in Cape Cod and I saw no flaws, he was ridiculously good. But the scouts I talked to about Josh said he might initially struggle in pro ball as he sees the kind of velocity and breaking balls consistently that you don't see in high school, because he so trusts his hands. He'll be fine; I have no concerns about his bat, because all the scouts I talked to about him believe he will hit.

 

 

 

Thank you!