The Bears Offseason Thread

[Magnetic Curses]

I don't know then why you would want them to sign Briggs for all that money. The Bears could find several other people at that position to give them similar production at much less cost. If Briggs really is that good, then Chicago is wasting his talent by using that system with him at that position-any good linebacker could play that position very ,very well, and there's no reason to pay anybody a great amount of money to do so.

 

you're saying that tampa has been wasting money on derrick brooks, too?

 

no, in the tampa-2, the will better be fast, he better be quick, and he better be equally as proficient against the pass as against the run.

 

the sam, on the other hand, is the position of no consequence in the tampa-2, which is why they can get away with playing hillenmeyer there. the defense is built around the excellence of the will, and the bears have the right guy for it.

[Chocolate Milk]

I don't know then why you would want them to sign Briggs for all that money. The Bears could find several other people at that position to give them similar production at much less cost. If Briggs really is that good, then Chicago is wasting his talent by using that system with him at that position-any good linebacker could play that position very ,very well, and there's no reason to pay anybody a great amount of money to do so.

 

you're saying that tampa has been wasting money on derrick brooks, too?

 

no, in the tampa-2, the will better be fast, he better be quick, and he better be equally as proficient against the pass as against the run.

 

the sam, on the other hand, is the position of no consequence in the tampa-2. the defense is built around the excellence of the will, and the bears have the right guy for it.

 

The Tampa-2 isn't a defense built around the will linebacker.

[Magnetic Curses]

I don't know then why you would want them to sign Briggs for all that money. The Bears could find several other people at that position to give them similar production at much less cost. If Briggs really is that good, then Chicago is wasting his talent by using that system with him at that position-any good linebacker could play that position very ,very well, and there's no reason to pay anybody a great amount of money to do so.

 

you're saying that tampa has been wasting money on derrick brooks, too?

 

no, in the tampa-2, the will better be fast, he better be quick, and he better be equally as proficient against the pass as against the run.

 

the sam, on the other hand, is the position of no consequence in the tampa-2. the defense is built around the excellence of the will, and the bears have the right guy for it.

 

The Tampa-2 isn't a defense built around the will linebacker.

 

the will is the most important position in the scheme.

[Chocolate Milk]

I don't know then why you would want them to sign Briggs for all that money. The Bears could find several other people at that position to give them similar production at much less cost. If Briggs really is that good, then Chicago is wasting his talent by using that system with him at that position-any good linebacker could play that position very ,very well, and there's no reason to pay anybody a great amount of money to do so.

 

you're saying that tampa has been wasting money on derrick brooks, too?

 

no, in the tampa-2, the will better be fast, he better be quick, and he better be equally as proficient against the pass as against the run.

 

the sam, on the other hand, is the position of no consequence in the tampa-2. the defense is built around the excellence of the will, and the bears have the right guy for it.

 

The Tampa-2 isn't a defense built around the will linebacker.

 

the will is the most important position in the scheme.

 

Then why are the Bears (it looks like) and Colts letting their Pro-Bowl will linebackers walk?

[CubColtPacer]

I don't know then why you would want them to sign Briggs for all that money. The Bears could find several other people at that position to give them similar production at much less cost. If Briggs really is that good, then Chicago is wasting his talent by using that system with him at that position-any good linebacker could play that position very ,very well, and there's no reason to pay anybody a great amount of money to do so.

 

you're saying that tampa has been wasting money on derrick brooks, too?

 

no, in the tampa-2, the will better be fast, he better be quick, and he better be equally as proficient against the pass as against the run.

 

the sam, on the other hand, is the position of no consequence in the tampa-2. the defense is built around the excellence of the will, and the bears have the right guy for it.

 

The Tampa-2 isn't a defense built around the will linebacker.

 

the will is the most important position in the scheme.

 

No, the defensive line is the most important part of the scheme. The ability to get pressure with only the front 4 without blitzing is the big reason why the Tampa 2 works, and the team will always pick pass-rushing defensive linemen over any linebacker. The two safeties and the WILL are the next important, and the other two linebackers and the corners are the least important in the scheme. The big change that Chicago has made is to modify the system so that Urlacher becomes more important to the scheme to utilize his talents.

[Magnetic Curses]

I don't know then why you would want them to sign Briggs for all that money. The Bears could find several other people at that position to give them similar production at much less cost. If Briggs really is that good, then Chicago is wasting his talent by using that system with him at that position-any good linebacker could play that position very ,very well, and there's no reason to pay anybody a great amount of money to do so.

 

you're saying that tampa has been wasting money on derrick brooks, too?

 

no, in the tampa-2, the will better be fast, he better be quick, and he better be equally as proficient against the pass as against the run.

 

the sam, on the other hand, is the position of no consequence in the tampa-2. the defense is built around the excellence of the will, and the bears have the right guy for it.

 

The Tampa-2 isn't a defense built around the will linebacker.

 

the will is the most important position in the scheme.

 

Then why are the Bears and Colts letting their Pro-Bowl will linebackers walk?

 

the bears are letting their pro-bowl WILL walk? i thought that they franchised him. if you have any other info that could be pertinent to bears fans, you'd best let us know.

[Chocolate Milk]

I don't know then why you would want them to sign Briggs for all that money. The Bears could find several other people at that position to give them similar production at much less cost. If Briggs really is that good, then Chicago is wasting his talent by using that system with him at that position-any good linebacker could play that position very ,very well, and there's no reason to pay anybody a great amount of money to do so.

 

you're saying that tampa has been wasting money on derrick brooks, too?

 

no, in the tampa-2, the will better be fast, he better be quick, and he better be equally as proficient against the pass as against the run.

 

the sam, on the other hand, is the position of no consequence in the tampa-2. the defense is built around the excellence of the will, and the bears have the right guy for it.

 

The Tampa-2 isn't a defense built around the will linebacker.

 

the will is the most important position in the scheme.

 

Then why are the Bears and Colts letting their Pro-Bowl will linebackers walk?

 

the bears are letting their pro-bowl WILL walk? i thought that they franchised him. if you have any other info that could be pertinent to bears fans, you'd best let us know.

 

No need to be condescending, sport. Nice job avoiding my point entirely.

[Chocolate Milk]

I don't know then why you would want them to sign Briggs for all that money. The Bears could find several other people at that position to give them similar production at much less cost. If Briggs really is that good, then Chicago is wasting his talent by using that system with him at that position-any good linebacker could play that position very ,very well, and there's no reason to pay anybody a great amount of money to do so.

 

you're saying that tampa has been wasting money on derrick brooks, too?

 

no, in the tampa-2, the will better be fast, he better be quick, and he better be equally as proficient against the pass as against the run.

 

the sam, on the other hand, is the position of no consequence in the tampa-2. the defense is built around the excellence of the will, and the bears have the right guy for it.

 

The Tampa-2 isn't a defense built around the will linebacker.

 

the will is the most important position in the scheme.

 

No, the defensive line is the most important part of the scheme. The ability to get pressure with only the front 4 without blitzing is the big reason why the Tampa 2 works, and the team will always pick pass-rushing defensive linemen over any linebacker. The two safeties and the WILL are the next important, and the other two linebackers and the corners are the least important in the scheme. The big change that Chicago has made is to modify the system so that Urlacher becomes more important to the scheme to utilize his talents.

 

Correct. Every defensive line position is more important than the WILL linebacker in the Cover-2.

[Magnetic Curses]

I don't know then why you would want them to sign Briggs for all that money. The Bears could find several other people at that position to give them similar production at much less cost. If Briggs really is that good, then Chicago is wasting his talent by using that system with him at that position-any good linebacker could play that position very ,very well, and there's no reason to pay anybody a great amount of money to do so.

 

you're saying that tampa has been wasting money on derrick brooks, too?

 

no, in the tampa-2, the will better be fast, he better be quick, and he better be equally as proficient against the pass as against the run.

 

the sam, on the other hand, is the position of no consequence in the tampa-2. the defense is built around the excellence of the will, and the bears have the right guy for it.

 

The Tampa-2 isn't a defense built around the will linebacker.

 

the will is the most important position in the scheme.

 

No, the defensive line is the most important part of the scheme. The ability to get pressure with only the front 4 without blitzing is the big reason why the Tampa 2 works, and the team will always pick pass-rushing defensive linemen over any linebacker. The two safeties and the WILL are the next important, and the other two linebackers and the corners are the least important in the scheme. The big change that Chicago has made is to modify the system so that Urlacher becomes more important to the scheme to utilize his talents.

 

even under optimal conditions, the line may not get consistent pressure on the QB, as the bears proved this year. it's better if they do, no doubt, but when everything else is failing, the LBs MUST make the plays. and to a great extent, they made the plays for the bears this season. considering that the bears 2 starting DE's totaled 12 sacks combined last season, i'd say that briggs's position was under constant assault.

 

without a guy like briggs, the levy breaks for the bears and the speed of the rest of the team is only put to use while chasing opposing players from behind.

[Magnetic Curses]

 

No need to be condescending, sport. Nice job avoiding my point entirely.

 

oh jeez, i doubt my perceived condescension can come close to yours, "sport". leave it alone.

 

and i didn't avoid your point, i simply noticed that it was faulty.

[Magnetic Curses]

I don't know then why you would want them to sign Briggs for all that money. The Bears could find several other people at that position to give them similar production at much less cost. If Briggs really is that good, then Chicago is wasting his talent by using that system with him at that position-any good linebacker could play that position very ,very well, and there's no reason to pay anybody a great amount of money to do so.

 

you're saying that tampa has been wasting money on derrick brooks, too?

 

no, in the tampa-2, the will better be fast, he better be quick, and he better be equally as proficient against the pass as against the run.

 

the sam, on the other hand, is the position of no consequence in the tampa-2. the defense is built around the excellence of the will, and the bears have the right guy for it.

 

The Tampa-2 isn't a defense built around the will linebacker.

 

the will is the most important position in the scheme.

 

No, the defensive line is the most important part of the scheme. The ability to get pressure with only the front 4 without blitzing is the big reason why the Tampa 2 works, and the team will always pick pass-rushing defensive linemen over any linebacker. The two safeties and the WILL are the next important, and the other two linebackers and the corners are the least important in the scheme. The big change that Chicago has made is to modify the system so that Urlacher becomes more important to the scheme to utilize his talents.

 

Correct. Every defensive line position is more important than the WILL linebacker in the Cover-2.

 

wrong. while the defensive line is impoprtant, it's importance is judged as a unit. as a unit, it's only important as the first wave of attack.

 

when sacks and pressure aren't happening, which they weren't on a majority of snaps for the bears last season, the linebackers are revealed as the most important positions in the scheme.

 

if the bears got more pressure on the QB last season, i agree, they wouldn't need such excellent LB's. but you can't assume QB pressure, ever.

[da bears]

So I guess Briggs will be interviewed live on Sportscenter today at 5.

[Chocolate Milk]

 

No need to be condescending, sport. Nice job avoiding my point entirely.

 

oh jeez, i doubt my perceived condescension can come close to yours, "sport". leave it alone.

 

and i didn't avoid your point, i simply noticed that it was faulty.

 

It's not faulty. Cato June was allowed to test the market, even though he played the "most important position in the Cover-2" at a pro bowl level. The Bears look like they don't want to give Lance Briggs a market value extended contract to play, what you call the most important position on the defense. Both of these guys were late round pics and Cato June is a silghtly oversized saftey. If the players and play at this position is so important, why aren't these guys locked up right away? I doubt we'll see a bunch a song and dance routine when it comes to Tommie Harris' contract. That's because Tommie's position is much more crucial to the performance of the defense.

 

It's one of the easiest positions on the defense to fill and it is by no means the most important tampa-2 position. I've never heard anyone associated with this defense ever say anything like that.

[CubColtPacer]

 

No need to be condescending, sport. Nice job avoiding my point entirely.

 

oh jeez, i doubt my perceived condescension can come close to yours, "sport". leave it alone.

 

and i didn't avoid your point, i simply noticed that it was faulty.

 

It's not faulty. Cato June was allowed to test the market, even though he played the "most important position in the Cover-2" at a pro bowl level. The Bears look like they don't want to give Lance Briggs a market value extended contract to play, what you call the most important position on the defense. Both of these guys were late round pics and Cato June is a silghtly oversized saftey. If the players and play at this position is so important, why aren't these guys locked up right away? I doubt we'll see a bunch a song and dance routine when it comes to Tommie Harris' contract. That's because Tommie's position is much more crucial to the performance of the defense.

 

It's one of the easiest positions on the defense to fill and it is by no means the most important tampa-2 position. I've never heard anyone associated with this defense ever say anything like that.

 

The Colts were actually so impressed with David Thornton at the WILL a couple of years ago that they moved him to SAM so that they could break in their young guy (June) at the easiest linebacker position to play, the WILL. That certainly doesn't sound like the WILL is valued all that much.

[CubColtPacer]

I don't know then why you would want them to sign Briggs for all that money. The Bears could find several other people at that position to give them similar production at much less cost. If Briggs really is that good, then Chicago is wasting his talent by using that system with him at that position-any good linebacker could play that position very ,very well, and there's no reason to pay anybody a great amount of money to do so.

 

you're saying that tampa has been wasting money on derrick brooks, too?

 

no, in the tampa-2, the will better be fast, he better be quick, and he better be equally as proficient against the pass as against the run.

 

the sam, on the other hand, is the position of no consequence in the tampa-2. the defense is built around the excellence of the will, and the bears have the right guy for it.

 

The Tampa-2 isn't a defense built around the will linebacker.

 

the will is the most important position in the scheme.

 

No, the defensive line is the most important part of the scheme. The ability to get pressure with only the front 4 without blitzing is the big reason why the Tampa 2 works, and the team will always pick pass-rushing defensive linemen over any linebacker. The two safeties and the WILL are the next important, and the other two linebackers and the corners are the least important in the scheme. The big change that Chicago has made is to modify the system so that Urlacher becomes more important to the scheme to utilize his talents.

 

Correct. Every defensive line position is more important than the WILL linebacker in the Cover-2.

 

wrong. while the defensive line is impoprtant, it's importance is judged as a unit. as a unit, it's only important as the first wave of attack.

 

when sacks and pressure aren't happening, which they weren't on a majority of snaps for the bears last season, the linebackers are revealed as the most important positions in the scheme.

 

if the bears got more pressure on the QB last season, i agree, they wouldn't need such excellent LB's. but you can't assume QB pressure, ever.

 

The Bears got plenty of pressure until Harris went down-they finished 8th in sacks (which I know is the not best indicator of QB pressure whatsoever). When Harris went out, the Bears had to compensate by blitzing more, which led to teams going for more yards. In fact, out of their first 11 games before Harris went down, Chicago allowed 300 or more yards 1 time. In the 8 games after (including the game he went down) they allowed 300 or more yards all 8 times. The Bears were able to stay afloat because of their great ability to force turnovers, but they were no longer able to keep people from driving up and down the field on them.

 

No, you cannot always rely on consistent pressure on every play. That's why the Cover 2 defense is designed to not give up the big play. They force opponents to make long drives down the field, and if the front 4 is good enough they will get pressure on at least one crucial play during the drive and force a big play or turnover, or at least a 3rd down incompletion.

[cubweiser03]

Does Briggs live in a vacuum? He's not the only person tagged with a frachise tag this year AND hes not even the best player tagged. Freeney and Samual have more of a gripe than Briggs does and i dont hear anything from those 2 guys. Add that Samuals team is throwing money all around this FA period, unlike the Bears, he has the biggest leg to stand on with "If they loved me, they would pay me' line.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

Bottom Line in all this... No fiscally responsible team can afford to give 120 plus million in contracts on one position(Linebacker).

[cubweiser03]

I don't know then why you would want them to sign Briggs for all that money. The Bears could find several other people at that position to give them similar production at much less cost. If Briggs really is that good, then Chicago is wasting his talent by using that system with him at that position-any good linebacker could play that position very ,very well, and there's no reason to pay anybody a great amount of money to do so.

 

you're saying that tampa has been wasting money on derrick brooks, too?

 

no, in the tampa-2, the will better be fast, he better be quick, and he better be equally as proficient against the pass as against the run.

 

the sam, on the other hand, is the position of no consequence in the tampa-2. the defense is built around the excellence of the will, and the bears have the right guy for it.

 

The Tampa-2 isn't a defense built around the will linebacker.

 

the will is the most important position in the scheme.

 

No, the defensive line is the most important part of the scheme. The ability to get pressure with only the front 4 without blitzing is the big reason why the Tampa 2 works, and the team will always pick pass-rushing defensive linemen over any linebacker. The two safeties and the WILL are the next important, and the other two linebackers and the corners are the least important in the scheme. The big change that Chicago has made is to modify the system so that Urlacher becomes more important to the scheme to utilize his talents.

 

Correct. Every defensive line position is more important than the WILL linebacker in the Cover-2.

 

wrong. while the defensive line is impoprtant, it's importance is judged as a unit. as a unit, it's only important as the first wave of attack.

 

when sacks and pressure aren't happening, which they weren't on a majority of snaps for the bears last season, the linebackers are revealed as the most important positions in the scheme.

 

if the bears got more pressure on the QB last season, i agree, they wouldn't need such excellent LB's. but you can't assume QB pressure, ever.

 

The Bears got plenty of pressure until Harris went down-they finished 8th in sacks (which I know is the not best indicator of QB pressure whatsoever). When Harris went out, the Bears had to compensate by blitzing more, which led to teams going for more yards. In fact, out of their first 11 games before Harris went down, Chicago allowed 300 or more yards 1 time. In the 8 games after (including the game he went down) they allowed 300 or more yards all 8 times. The Bears were able to stay afloat because of their great ability to force turnovers, but they were no longer able to keep people from driving up and down the field on them.

 

No, you cannot always rely on consistent pressure on every play. That's why the Cover 2 defense is designed to not give up the big play. They force opponents to make long drives down the field, and if the front 4 is good enough they will get pressure on at least one crucial play during the drive and force a big play or turnover, or at least a 3rd down incompletion.

 

I thought the Bucs defense was so good was because of Warren Sapp and Simeon Rice. Those guys wreaked havoc up front. Ronde Barber, Lynch and Brooks were key components too, but i thought the guys up front were the foundation for their success. Harris is the Sapp of this defense. I agree DT and a superior pass rushing end are where this whole thing starts. If the Bears had Freeney or the Colts had Harris the defense would be crazy awesome.

[Magnetic Curses]

The Bears got plenty of pressure until Harris went down-they finished 8th in sacks (which I know is the not best indicator of QB pressure whatsoever).

 

untrue. the week before harris went down, the trib did a full spread on how the bears front four had been getting little pressure over the previous 5 weeks

[Handlebar McSkullet]

I really don't see the fascination with vasher. he's good, but good players can be had in the draft. angelo has shown a fairly decent ability to get good players in the later rounds of the draft on a consistent basis.

 

players like briggs and harris aren't just good, they are top 3 at their respective positions in the NFL--they are perrenial all-pro players.

 

a good GM locks up his all-pro players and shuffles his good players in-and-out through the draft, letting them walk when they ask for all-pro-type money, which they clearly aren't worth.

 

briggs is probably worth what he's asking for. it's just a matter of whether or not he'll get it from anyone.

 

But why is Briggs an all pro?

 

because he was an all-pro in 2005.

 

I think he is more a product of the system. It doesnt mean he isnt a great player, but he is a great player because he is a Bear. Whether or not you think Vasher is good or great(none of us watch film so the only initial tangible measurement is interceptions), IMO he is probably harder to replace then Briggs.

 

you're telling me that i can't tell that vasher isn't a great player because i don't watch films? i can tell that he does a good job by watching the games, but i can tell that he's not physical enough because he misses a lot of tackles. i can also tell you that he lacks agility and speed to be an elite player. i also have a lot of respect for guys like hub arkush, who thinks that vasher is a pretty good player, but not irreplaceable by any standard.

 

I absolutely despise this kind of argument. You are taking bits and pieces of a total post, then arguing against it as if that singular sentence was the ultimate point of the post. "because he was an all-pro" is simplistic and juvenile. I didnt ask why he was an all-pro. I used that sentence as an introduction into the body of my argument.

 

"you're telling me that i can't tell that vasher isn't a great player because i don't watch films?" Im not saying YOU personally cannot tell whether Vasher is a good player or not, that is irrelevant. I believe that the top cornerback in the cover 2 is more important and harder to replace than the will linebacker. I think Vasher has superior agility, highlighted by his record breaking run against the 49ners in 2005. A cornerback's ability to cover receivers are more important than their ability to tackle. Is my observation wrong, and yours right? Maybe, but neither you or I have the expertise to make that determination.

 

I value Hub Arkush as well, but I value Jerry Angelo's judgment much more considering he built or help built both Tampa's and Chicago's defense. But that is irrelevant also.

 

Can the Bears afford to compensate Briggs and Harris and Vasher and Grossman....?

[goonys evil twin]

Can the Bears afford to compensate Briggs and Harris and Vasher and Grossman....?

 

Yes. The Bears don't have to get rid of any of those guys in order to keep the team together.

[CubColtPacer]

The Bears got plenty of pressure until Harris went down-they finished 8th in sacks (which I know is the not best indicator of QB pressure whatsoever).

 

untrue. the week before harris went down, the trib did a full spread on how the bears front four had been getting little pressure over the previous 5 weeks

 

They didn't get much pressure in 2 of those 5 games, but they still had 6 sacks and 3 QB forced fumbles in 3 of those games. That's not too bad, and their defense also had 10 INTs in those 5 games, which at least some of those could have come from pressures.

[jaydee]

Does Briggs live in a vacuum? He's not the only person tagged with a frachise tag this year AND hes not even the best player tagged. Freeney and Samual have more of a gripe than Briggs does and i dont hear anything from those 2 guys. Add that Samuals team is throwing money all around this FA period, unlike the Bears, he has the biggest leg to stand on with "If they loved me, they would pay me' line.

 

Briggs is just extremly greedy.

[cubbyvirus00]

Briggs really needs to shut up and play. The best sports athletes, never whined or complained about money, but went out and played. These new age athletes are all babies, and it's all about the money.

 

If you work your ass off and play, you will be paid. Wether it's 10 million, or 5 million, that is plenty to pay your bills and feed your kids. It's amazing how spoiled these players have come to be, and we're partially to blame.

 

Nothing personal, but I hate this type of thinking. If you are a paperboy and you are getting 40,000 and can feed your family just fine, but other paperboys are getting 100,000 for doing the same amount of work, then you are gonna want 100,000, because that's what you're worth.

It's not about having "enough" money, it's about having what you deserve. Briggs is one of the top 2-3 OLBs in the game. Top players around the league have long-term guaranteed contracts, in which they are paid market value. Briggs doesn't have that. I don't blame him for being upset.

 

Theres two ways to handle it. Act like a spoiled baby, or to be classy and go straight to management. If management isn't going to change their stance, then publicy roasting the fans, media, and organization certainly won't help the matter. I can't blame the Bears for using the tag. Its within the rules of the contract, and it makes Briggs play well next year for another contract.

 

Now he could have been intelligent and attacked the use of the Franchise tag itself, instead of attacking the organization that has given him the chance to play football in the NFL.

 

Either way, Briggs is acting like a selfish spoiled brat, his comments certainly reflect that spirit.

[goonys evil twin]

Peter King's take:

You know what I like about this? Let's say the Bears are 2-4 at the trading deadline next October, and nothing is going right. Angelo could deal Briggs for a second-round pick, and some team could make him the rich man he wants to be. Just a thought.

 

Wait, what? The thing you like about it is "let's say the Bears are 2-4"? First off, trading Briggs midseason is going to make it very difficult for some other team to sign him with the guaranteed money he wants. Teams will be much closer to the salary cap by then. Second of all, what's the point of even forecasting the Bears at 2-4? Unless the Bears start with their 6 toughest road games it's going to be very difficult for them to open 2-4. Third, why is that the thing you like about it? Are you hoping the Bears start out 2-4? I mean, I know you teamed up with Dr. Z this year and openly rooted against them while pimping up New Orleans and the NFC East, but geez man, hold it in a little.