Top 50 by BP

[Diffusion]

Justin Upton is in there (which totally kills any credibility this list had to begin with).

 

Why?

 

Top prospect? Yes. One of the most 50 valuable players in baseball? No way any 18 year old right out of high school just getting his first sniff of the minors qualifies to be listed as one of the most valuable players in the game. That's absurd.

 

Upton is the only one I listed, but that was only he was the most extreme case, as he's had the least professional experience. His rating is based purely on ceiling and not at all on past performance or current ability. We all know how rarely someone like that pans out. To be fair, I could have put in the time to throw all of the prospects out there, my excluding them shouldn't imply that I think Upton is a future flop or overrated.

 

I think you'll find there's absolutely nothing wrong with his current ability whatsoever. And his rating is based as much on that as it is on his ceiling, which is superstar. Yes, he has very little professional experience, so he doesn't have the numbers to back up his talent right now, outside of his hugely impressive 16 PA stint with the Diamondbacks in major league spring training, as an 18 year old, in his first ever proper games, but the kid is something special right now. Right now. Not maybe five years down the line if this and that works out for him, but right now.

There's no chance that the kid is going to do anything for any major league team this year. Nada. Right now, he's another superstar prospect with a loooong way to go before he reaches the bigs, and he's got just as much of a chance of flaming out as the myriads of others similar to him that have before. He's a great prospect, but again, not one of the 50 most valuable in the game.

 

Just because the Diamondbacks probably aren't going to have him see the majors this year doesn't mean that he couldn't handle it. Upton's bat really isn't that far from being ready, and he could probably hold his own in the majors right now, not dominate but at least not look hopelessly overmatched. But the Diamondbacks have nothing to gain from having him up, because they don't have the pitching to be competitive, so moving him too quickly through the system would be pointless - they don't need him at the major league level, and you don't want to needlessly burn service time on a player this young. Then there's Upton's defence. He's moved positions, from SS to CF, so he'll need to learn the new position, better than he does that on the farm. The bottom line - Upton for a high school hitter is ridiculously polished, and the fact that he's young and starting the year in the low minors shouldn't be confused with him being a long way away at all. He's not, not in terms of how much development he's got in front of him.

[Diffusion]

If you are just talking about who is the best in baseball right now, the following are all better than Prior:

 

Z

Clemens

Carpenter

Santana

Pedro

Buerhle

Halladay

Peavy

Pettitte

Willis

Oswalt

 

Leaving aside what I think about your list, we're not talking about who the best pitcher is right now. We're talking about who, if you're a major league ballclub, are the most valuable pitchers to own. That involves the short-term and the long-term and everything else in between.

 

And all I've said is that, when healthy (long enough to get into a groove, I should have added), Mark Prior is one of the top three starting pitchers in the game period (yes, Rocket, my top three is Santana, Peavy and Prior), and that the health "risk" involved with him is nowhere near great enough to justify bumping him off a list of the game's 50 best assets.

 

If you want to debate that you're going to either come up with an argument that there are many more pitchers better than him when he's at his best, or an argument that he's such an injury risk that that's irrelevant. A list of pitchers that had good years last year doesn't achieve either.

[srbin84]

If you are just talking about who is the best in baseball right now, the following are all better than Prior:

 

Z

Clemens

Carpenter

Santana

Pedro

Buerhle

Halladay

Peavy

Pettitte

Willis

Oswalt

 

Leaving aside what I think about your list, we're not talking about who the best pitcher is right now. We're talking about who, if you're a major league ballclub, are the most valuable pitchers to own. That involves the short-term and the long-term and everything else in between.

 

And all I've said is that, when healthy (long enough to get into a groove, I should have added), Mark Prior is one of the top three starting pitchers in the game period (yes, Rocket, my top three is Santana, Peavy and Prior), and that the health "risk" involved with him is nowhere near great enough to justify bumping him off a list of the game's 50 best assets.

 

If you want to debate that you're going to either come up with an argument that there are many more pitchers better than him when he's at his best, or an argument that he's such an injury risk that that's irrelevant. A list of pitchers that had good years last year doesn't achieve either.

 

More valuabe than Prior:

 

Z

Santana

Buerhle

Peavy

Willis

Oswalt

[Transmogrified Tiger]

More valuabe than Prior:

 

Z

Santana

Buerhle

Peavy

Willis

Oswalt

 

Players on that list who have matched Prior's '03:

 

Santana

Peavy

 

Well, whaddaya know.....

[Mark_R]

In fairness, his other post had Halladay listed, and his 05 was on par with Prior's 03, and Halladay's 03 is better than anything else Prior has put up.

[Jehrico]

Justin Upton is in there (which totally kills any credibility this list had to begin with).

 

Why?

 

Top prospect? Yes. One of the most 50 valuable players in baseball? No way any 18 year old right out of high school just getting his first sniff of the minors qualifies to be listed as one of the most valuable players in the game. That's absurd.

 

Upton is the only one I listed, but that was only he was the most extreme case, as he's had the least professional experience. His rating is based purely on ceiling and not at all on past performance or current ability. We all know how rarely someone like that pans out. To be fair, I could have put in the time to throw all of the prospects out there, my excluding them shouldn't imply that I think Upton is a future flop or overrated.

 

I think you'll find there's absolutely nothing wrong with his current ability whatsoever. And his rating is based as much on that as it is on his ceiling, which is superstar. Yes, he has very little professional experience, so he doesn't have the numbers to back up his talent right now, outside of his hugely impressive 16 PA stint with the Diamondbacks in major league spring training, as an 18 year old, in his first ever proper games, but the kid is something special right now. Right now. Not maybe five years down the line if this and that works out for him, but right now.

There's no chance that the kid is going to do anything for any major league team this year. Nada. Right now, he's another superstar prospect with a loooong way to go before he reaches the bigs, and he's got just as much of a chance of flaming out as the myriads of others similar to him that have before. He's a great prospect, but again, not one of the 50 most valuable in the game.

 

Just because the Diamondbacks probably aren't going to have him see the majors this year doesn't mean that he couldn't handle it. Upton's bat really isn't that far from being ready, and he could probably hold his own in the majors right now, not dominate but at least not look hopelessly overmatched. But the Diamondbacks have nothing to gain from having him up, because they don't have the pitching to be competitive, so moving him too quickly through the system would be pointless - they don't need him at the major league level, and you don't want to needlessly burn service time on a player this young. Then there's Upton's defence. He's moved positions, from SS to CF, so he'll need to learn the new position, better than he does that on the farm. The bottom line - Upton for a high school hitter is ridiculously polished, and the fact that he's young and starting the year in the low minors shouldn't be confused with him being a long way away at all. He's not, not in terms of how much development he's got in front of him.

 

Well have to agree to disagree. I think putting that much more stock in him over numerous other star-caliber prospects because of 16 spring training plate appearances is foolish at best.

[Diffusion]

Justin Upton is in there (which totally kills any credibility this list had to begin with).

 

Why?

 

Top prospect? Yes. One of the most 50 valuable players in baseball? No way any 18 year old right out of high school just getting his first sniff of the minors qualifies to be listed as one of the most valuable players in the game. That's absurd.

 

Upton is the only one I listed, but that was only he was the most extreme case, as he's had the least professional experience. His rating is based purely on ceiling and not at all on past performance or current ability. We all know how rarely someone like that pans out. To be fair, I could have put in the time to throw all of the prospects out there, my excluding them shouldn't imply that I think Upton is a future flop or overrated.

 

I think you'll find there's absolutely nothing wrong with his current ability whatsoever. And his rating is based as much on that as it is on his ceiling, which is superstar. Yes, he has very little professional experience, so he doesn't have the numbers to back up his talent right now, outside of his hugely impressive 16 PA stint with the Diamondbacks in major league spring training, as an 18 year old, in his first ever proper games, but the kid is something special right now. Right now. Not maybe five years down the line if this and that works out for him, but right now.

There's no chance that the kid is going to do anything for any major league team this year. Nada. Right now, he's another superstar prospect with a loooong way to go before he reaches the bigs, and he's got just as much of a chance of flaming out as the myriads of others similar to him that have before. He's a great prospect, but again, not one of the 50 most valuable in the game.

 

Just because the Diamondbacks probably aren't going to have him see the majors this year doesn't mean that he couldn't handle it. Upton's bat really isn't that far from being ready, and he could probably hold his own in the majors right now, not dominate but at least not look hopelessly overmatched. But the Diamondbacks have nothing to gain from having him up, because they don't have the pitching to be competitive, so moving him too quickly through the system would be pointless - they don't need him at the major league level, and you don't want to needlessly burn service time on a player this young. Then there's Upton's defence. He's moved positions, from SS to CF, so he'll need to learn the new position, better than he does that on the farm. The bottom line - Upton for a high school hitter is ridiculously polished, and the fact that he's young and starting the year in the low minors shouldn't be confused with him being a long way away at all. He's not, not in terms of how much development he's got in front of him.

 

Well have to agree to disagree. I think putting that much more stock in him over numerous other star-caliber prospects because of 16 spring training plate appearances is foolish at best.

 

Yes, because that's really what I'm doing.

[Diffusion]

In fairness, his other post had Halladay listed, and his 05 was on par with Prior's 03, and Halladay's 03 is better than anything else Prior has put up.

 

I'll take Prior's 03 over Halladay's. And Halladay's three and a half years older than Prior, and since he too likes taking fielding ferocious line drives with his limbs, is I guess every bit the injury risk Prior is.

[srbin84]

More valuabe than Prior:

 

Z

Santana

Buerhle

Peavy

Willis

Oswalt

 

Players on that list who have matched Prior's '03:

 

Santana

Peavy

 

Well, whaddaya know.....

 

Years ago 2003 was:

 

Three.

 

You can't just look at the best of a pitcher when it wasn't even recent. The last two years, I'd compare Prior to Bronson Arroyo.

[Jehrico]

Justin Upton is in there (which totally kills any credibility this list had to begin with).

 

Why?

 

Top prospect? Yes. One of the most 50 valuable players in baseball? No way any 18 year old right out of high school just getting his first sniff of the minors qualifies to be listed as one of the most valuable players in the game. That's absurd.

 

Upton is the only one I listed, but that was only he was the most extreme case, as he's had the least professional experience. His rating is based purely on ceiling and not at all on past performance or current ability. We all know how rarely someone like that pans out. To be fair, I could have put in the time to throw all of the prospects out there, my excluding them shouldn't imply that I think Upton is a future flop or overrated.

 

I think you'll find there's absolutely nothing wrong with his current ability whatsoever. And his rating is based as much on that as it is on his ceiling, which is superstar. Yes, he has very little professional experience, so he doesn't have the numbers to back up his talent right now, outside of his hugely impressive 16 PA stint with the Diamondbacks in major league spring training, as an 18 year old, in his first ever proper games, but the kid is something special right now. Right now. Not maybe five years down the line if this and that works out for him, but right now.

There's no chance that the kid is going to do anything for any major league team this year. Nada. Right now, he's another superstar prospect with a loooong way to go before he reaches the bigs, and he's got just as much of a chance of flaming out as the myriads of others similar to him that have before. He's a great prospect, but again, not one of the 50 most valuable in the game.

 

Just because the Diamondbacks probably aren't going to have him see the majors this year doesn't mean that he couldn't handle it. Upton's bat really isn't that far from being ready, and he could probably hold his own in the majors right now, not dominate but at least not look hopelessly overmatched. But the Diamondbacks have nothing to gain from having him up, because they don't have the pitching to be competitive, so moving him too quickly through the system would be pointless - they don't need him at the major league level, and you don't want to needlessly burn service time on a player this young. Then there's Upton's defence. He's moved positions, from SS to CF, so he'll need to learn the new position, better than he does that on the farm. The bottom line - Upton for a high school hitter is ridiculously polished, and the fact that he's young and starting the year in the low minors shouldn't be confused with him being a long way away at all. He's not, not in terms of how much development he's got in front of him.

 

Well have to agree to disagree. I think putting that much more stock in him over numerous other star-caliber prospects because of 16 spring training plate appearances is foolish at best.

 

Yes, because that's really what I'm doing.

The only thing you've provided that differentiates him from other superstar prospects is his "hugely impressive 16 PA stint in ST." If he were to come up now, he'd get chewed up and made to look stupid. That is, of course, unless he's facing Glendon Rusch....

[Holy Cow]

Just because the Diamondbacks probably aren't going to have him see the majors this year doesn't mean that he couldn't handle it. Upton's bat really isn't that far from being ready, and he could probably hold his own in the majors right now, not dominate but at least not look hopelessly overmatched. But the Diamondbacks have nothing to gain from having him up, because they don't have the pitching to be competitive, so moving him too quickly through the system would be pointless - they don't need him at the major league level, and you don't want to needlessly burn service time on a player this young. Then there's Upton's defence. He's moved positions, from SS to CF, so he'll need to learn the new position, better than he does that on the farm. The bottom line - Upton for a high school hitter is ridiculously polished, and the fact that he's young and starting the year in the low minors shouldn't be confused with him being a long way away at all. He's not, not in terms of how much development he's got in front of him.

 

Well have to agree to disagree. I think putting that much more stock in him over numerous other star-caliber prospects because of 16 spring training plate appearances is foolish at best.

 

Dude, your missing the point. If they offered Justin for Carlos Beltran, the Mets would be stupid not to take it. This is about value, and players like Justin Upton are too rare to pass up.

[Diffusion]

Justin Upton is in there (which totally kills any credibility this list had to begin with).

 

Why?

 

Top prospect? Yes. One of the most 50 valuable players in baseball? No way any 18 year old right out of high school just getting his first sniff of the minors qualifies to be listed as one of the most valuable players in the game. That's absurd.

 

Upton is the only one I listed, but that was only he was the most extreme case, as he's had the least professional experience. His rating is based purely on ceiling and not at all on past performance or current ability. We all know how rarely someone like that pans out. To be fair, I could have put in the time to throw all of the prospects out there, my excluding them shouldn't imply that I think Upton is a future flop or overrated.

 

I think you'll find there's absolutely nothing wrong with his current ability whatsoever. And his rating is based as much on that as it is on his ceiling, which is superstar. Yes, he has very little professional experience, so he doesn't have the numbers to back up his talent right now, outside of his hugely impressive 16 PA stint with the Diamondbacks in major league spring training, as an 18 year old, in his first ever proper games, but the kid is something special right now. Right now. Not maybe five years down the line if this and that works out for him, but right now.

There's no chance that the kid is going to do anything for any major league team this year. Nada. Right now, he's another superstar prospect with a loooong way to go before he reaches the bigs, and he's got just as much of a chance of flaming out as the myriads of others similar to him that have before. He's a great prospect, but again, not one of the 50 most valuable in the game.

 

Just because the Diamondbacks probably aren't going to have him see the majors this year doesn't mean that he couldn't handle it. Upton's bat really isn't that far from being ready, and he could probably hold his own in the majors right now, not dominate but at least not look hopelessly overmatched. But the Diamondbacks have nothing to gain from having him up, because they don't have the pitching to be competitive, so moving him too quickly through the system would be pointless - they don't need him at the major league level, and you don't want to needlessly burn service time on a player this young. Then there's Upton's defence. He's moved positions, from SS to CF, so he'll need to learn the new position, better than he does that on the farm. The bottom line - Upton for a high school hitter is ridiculously polished, and the fact that he's young and starting the year in the low minors shouldn't be confused with him being a long way away at all. He's not, not in terms of how much development he's got in front of him.

 

Well have to agree to disagree. I think putting that much more stock in him over numerous other star-caliber prospects because of 16 spring training plate appearances is foolish at best.

 

Yes, because that's really what I'm doing.

The only thing you've provided that differentiates him from other superstar prospects is his "hugely impressive 16 PA stint in ST." If he were to come up now, he'd get chewed up and made to look stupid. That is, of course, unless he's facing Glendon Rusch....

 

And which other superstar prospects are these that I've been differentiating him from? That's exactly the point. There aren't any other superstar prospects on the position player side of things besides Delmon Young and possibly BJ Upton, depending on what happens with his defence. And he's a superstar prospect not because of his 16 PA in ST, nice though they were, but because of his natural ability, tools etc. That Upton has no professional baseball experience doesn't change the fact that he's ridiculously polished for an 18-year old, with lightning bat speed, excellent plate discipline, good power with considerable potential for more, that he's 3.1 seconds to first base, has a very strong arm, and so on and so on. He's a six-tool all-round package, ahead of his brother at the same age, and the Diamondbacks are already fast-tracking him. At what stage does it not matter that he hasn't already mashed some low-level minor league pitchers?

[Diffusion]

Just because the Diamondbacks probably aren't going to have him see the majors this year doesn't mean that he couldn't handle it. Upton's bat really isn't that far from being ready, and he could probably hold his own in the majors right now, not dominate but at least not look hopelessly overmatched. But the Diamondbacks have nothing to gain from having him up, because they don't have the pitching to be competitive, so moving him too quickly through the system would be pointless - they don't need him at the major league level, and you don't want to needlessly burn service time on a player this young. Then there's Upton's defence. He's moved positions, from SS to CF, so he'll need to learn the new position, better than he does that on the farm. The bottom line - Upton for a high school hitter is ridiculously polished, and the fact that he's young and starting the year in the low minors shouldn't be confused with him being a long way away at all. He's not, not in terms of how much development he's got in front of him.

 

Well have to agree to disagree. I think putting that much more stock in him over numerous other star-caliber prospects because of 16 spring training plate appearances is foolish at best.

 

Dude, your missing the point. If they offered Justin for Carlos Beltran, the Mets would be stupid not to take it. This is about value, and players like Justin Upton are too rare to pass up.

 

I don't know about that. I think Beltran's a bad example, because he's a really quality player, and I agree with the list that, ignoring the money for a minute, his value and Justin Upton's are pretty similar. I think you could definately make a very solid case for the Mets not being stupid if they didn't make that trade. Of course, if you involve what's left of Beltran's $119m/7yr deal in things and have that going to Arizona with him, then, yes, the Mets would obviously be absolutely bonkers to not take the chance to get out from under the commitment. Not because Beltran's not a very fine player, not because he'll not improve upon last year, but rather because his is a contract you can't justify giving to anyone in the game with the possible exception of Albert Pujols.