Astros Interested in Marcus Stroman and Cody Bellinger

Why is it all the bad farms.....

40 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Why is it all the bad farms.....

Plenty of caveats, but using FanGraphs's Farm Rankings, Astros are 21st, the Yankees are 16th, and the Twins are 13th. You'd love to have an overflowing farm teeming with can't-miss dudes from which to pick, I guess, but there's plenty in those three orgs to target if it comes to it. Most of the truly dire systems belong to teams who are also sellers this year, so if they make a trade with anyone but the Braves, they will at least have some good names about which to inquire.

9 hours ago, Matt Trueblood said:

Plenty of caveats, but using FanGraphs's Farm Rankings, Astros are 21st, the Yankees are 16th, and the Twins are 13th. You'd love to have an overflowing farm teeming with can't-miss dudes from which to pick, I guess, but there's plenty in those three orgs to target if it comes to it. Most of the truly dire systems belong to teams who are also sellers this year, so if they make a trade with anyone but the Braves, they will at least have some good names about which to inquire.

But also, it doesn't matter. Cody Bellinger is not going to bring back a can't-miss top 50 prospect. Let's be realistic here. Most contending teams have what it takes to trade for Bellinger, it's a matter of whether they'll pay the price and who the Cubs like best.

It's groundhog days for Cubs fans. 

This is where I am really on  the fence. I have seen good cub teams and I have seen bad cub teams. This team is on the cusp of contending. I think Stroman and Bellinger can play a role in that. Especially if we get some late season surprises like a dialed in Wisdom down the stretch and if Taillon seems to finally be locked down. Add to that some of the kids coming up from Iowa, and this team could be making some late season noise. Then there is the fanbase. Morale of the fan goes down the sewer if they see another cub team stripped to bare wood as part of some sort of rebuilding phase. We have all seen that movie before. Understanding that contenders want these guys because they feel they can win with them. Well......so can we. Part of me wants us to stand pat and see what we can do with this time. Maybe even be a buyer and get that piece that puts us over the top. Then there is that other part of me that says maybe we could have a better chance with even more youth. It can make your head swim. 

10 minutes ago, Billy62 said:

This is where I am really on  the fence. I have seen good cub teams and I have seen bad cub teams. This team is on the cusp of contending. I think Stroman and Bellinger can play a role in that. Especially if we get some late season surprises like a dialed in Wisdom down the stretch and if Taillon seems to finally be locked down. Add to that some of the kids coming up from Iowa, and this team could be making some late season noise. Then there is the fanbase. Morale of the fan goes down the sewer if they see another cub team stripped to bare wood as part of some sort of rebuilding phase. We have all seen that movie before. Understanding that contenders want these guys because they feel they can win with them. Well......so can we. Part of me wants us to stand pat and see what we can do with this time. Maybe even be a buyer and get that piece that puts us over the top. Then there is that other part of me that says maybe we could have a better chance with even more youth. It can make your head swim. 

The Cubs are stuck in the middle on the wrong side of competitiveness. The FA market this year is not good. Their minor league system is full of "nice" players, but no real stars (give or take PCA and Horton). They've sunk a lot of money and time into complementary players. They are Jim Hendry and Ed Lynch's dream team. If everything breaks right, they will be competitive within the division. That's how they were built for this year and how they will be for years to come. It's how they draft and how they approach free agency. No significant risks and no potential for great rewards/failure, just garden variety mediocrity.

1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

But also, it doesn't matter. Cody Bellinger is not going to bring back a can't-miss top 50 prospect. Let's be realistic here. Most contending teams have what it takes to trade for Bellinger, it's a matter of whether they'll pay the price and who the Cubs like best.

Completely agree with you, but the article DID mention both Stroman and Bellinger.  You package them together and a top 50ish prospect is well within reach.

I'm not sure exactly how I feel about it yet, but I kinda wonder how agreeable a deal based around Stroman for Luis Garcia would be.

1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

But also, it doesn't matter. Cody Bellinger is not going to bring back a can't-miss top 50 prospect. Let's be realistic here. Most contending teams have what it takes to trade for Bellinger, it's a matter of whether they'll pay the price and who the Cubs like best.

No one is saying a top 50 prospect, but a team with very little is more unlikely to give up their top guy then a team like the Orioles is likely to give up their 7th or 8th best guy.

Trade Jed instead

21 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

No one is saying a top 50 prospect, but a team with very little is more unlikely to give up their top guy then a team like the Orioles is likely to give up their 7th or 8th best guy.

Okay, that's fair. I can easily see a team like the Orioles just saying "we can weather that loss" without much consternation.

22 minutes ago, Hrubes20 said:

Completely agree with you, but the article DID mention both Stroman and Bellinger.  You package them together and a top 50ish prospect is well within reach.

Yeah, you combine both into a single deal and the return should jump from "two pretty good prospects" to "one really good prospect, maybe plus a low minors prospect".

Outside the box idea - Would the Cubs consider starting to consolidate their plethora of "nice" prospects by packaging 1 or 2 of them with Bellinger and/or Stroman to get a top 50 guy?  

9 minutes ago, UMFan83 said:

Outside the box idea - Would the Cubs consider starting to consolidate their plethora of "nice" prospects by packaging 1 or 2 of them with Bellinger and/or Stroman to get a top 50 guy?  

They need to do a lot of consolidating since the overwhelming strength of the farm is the depth and that is going to bring a lot of 40 man issues over the next few years

Just now, Tryptamine said:

They need to do a lot of consolidating since the overwhelming strength of the farm is the depth and that is going to bring a lot of 40 man issues over the next few years

Exactly, that's what I mean.  So lets use that depth to our advantage and see if we can get some elite prospects from teams that are looking to contend this year and get a Bellinger or Stroman.

17 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Yeah, you combine both into a single deal and the return should jump from "two pretty good prospects" to "one really good prospect, maybe plus a low minors prospect".

The problem with talking in vagaries like this (or Top 100, Top 50) is the veeeeeeeerrrrrryyyyyy loose definition for Good Prospect. I’m still traumatized from pre-Rebuild 2.0 discussions where Kris Bryant wasn’t Worth a Spencer Howard,  a near consensus Top 30 prospect, because Top 30

Closest the Astros have off the top of me head is Drew Gilbert and one of the first things that happened in the pros was he dislocated an elbow

14 minutes ago, UMFan83 said:

Outside the box idea - Would the Cubs consider starting to consolidate their plethora of "nice" prospects by packaging 1 or 2 of them with Bellinger and/or Stroman to get a top 50 guy?  

Stroman and Roederer for Coby Mayo

3 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

The problem with talking in vagaries like this (or Top 100, Top 50) is the veeeeeeeerrrrrryyyyyy loose definition for Good Prospect. I’m still traumatized from pre-Rebuild 2.0 discussions where Kris Bryant wasn’t Worth a Spencer Howard,  a near consensus Top 30 prospect, because Top 30

Closest the Astros have off the top of me head is Drew Gilbert and one of the first things that happened in the pros was he dislocated an elbow

I can't speak for anyone else but I use terms like "top 50", "top 100", etc. very loosely to describe the quality of a prospect. It's just a way to quickly reference a guy, not any kind of concrete line.

10 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

The problem with talking in vagaries like this (or Top 100, Top 50) is the veeeeeeeerrrrrryyyyyy loose definition for Good Prospect. I’m still traumatized from pre-Rebuild 2.0 discussions where Kris Bryant wasn’t Worth a Spencer Howard,  a near consensus Top 30 prospect, because Top 30

Closest the Astros have off the top of me head is Drew Gilbert and one of the first things that happened in the pros was he dislocated an elbow

The Astros are certainly not the team to employ this strategy with, but if we're talking the like the Orioles and the Cubs have to throw in like Nelson Velazquez to bump up the package to include Coby Mayo, then yeah go for it.

https://theathletic.com/4704246/2023/07/20/mlb-trade-rumors-contending-teams/

Bowden proposes both Bellinger and Stro to Houston for Brandon Bielak and Drew Gilbert along with some low-level prospects.  I don't see anything all that interesting about Bielak, and Gilbert seems fine from his stats page, but I don't know anything about him.

18 minutes ago, Rex Buckingham said:

https://theathletic.com/4704246/2023/07/20/mlb-trade-rumors-contending-teams/

Bowden proposes both Bellinger and Stro to Houston for Brandon Bielak and Drew Gilbert along with some low-level prospects.  I don't see anything all that interesting about Bielak, and Gilbert seems fine from his stats page, but I don't know anything about him.

Gilbert is a top 100 guy on a number of lists, though he does very little for me. What was supposed to be a 60 hit tool is more like a 50 hit tool. The power is more 45 than 50 or 55 and the defense is solid. He is fast, not elite fast, but definitely warrants his 60 tool. He torched A+(194 wRC+) to open the season, but has struggled in 226 AA PAs(82 wRC+)   I'm not sure why they would even want Bielak. His peripherals are awful and getting worse each year. This would be supremely underwhelming for me. 

Is anybody else in the "Let's Extend Bellinger Camp"?  I feel the Cubs have enough lottery tickets.  He's young enough to be productive for another 5 or 6 years - can easily slide over to first where his offense still plays.  I'm pretty close to done on (in sense that I'm not losing any sleep if they go)  Happ and Suzuki - I like Stroman but he's a 32 year old pitcher so I feel there may be more margin in trading him than keeping him.  I think in a vacuum Bellinger tops the lists of current players I'd like to see on the Cubs next year and short of him bring back a top 10ish lottery ticket - which I think is unlikely - just keep him.  He's resurrected his career in Wrigley maybe he feels there's enough Karma here that he wants to stay.

39 minutes ago, chopsx9 said:

Is anybody else in the "Let's Extend Bellinger Camp"?  I feel the Cubs have enough lottery tickets.  He's young enough to be productive for another 5 or 6 years - can easily slide over to first where his offense still plays.  I'm pretty close to done on (in sense that I'm not losing any sleep if they go)  Happ and Suzuki - I like Stroman but he's a 32 year old pitcher so I feel there may be more margin in trading him than keeping him.  I think in a vacuum Bellinger tops the lists of current players I'd like to see on the Cubs next year and short of him bring back a top 10ish lottery ticket - which I think is unlikely - just keep him.  He's resurrected his career in Wrigley maybe he feels there's enough Karma here that he wants to stay.

I'm pretty sure most on here would love a Bellinger extension for 5-6 years.  But he's a Boras client and it's just not going to happen at a price point that makes sense.