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Justin Turner: Why am I "meh"? Part Two


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Hello Cubs World, 

I'm sending off an academic publication this weekend! Its always a big landmark moment. Academic studies can take months or years, with the average turnaround time dramatically varying by field. I'm a business professor, and our publication rates are much slower than hard scientists. Its normal for research faculty to produce 1 "b" quality journal paper every 12-24 months, and in addition to that research, producing 1 "a" quality paper every 3 years. However, only about 1/3rd of faculty are research these days- the rest publish at low rates or not at all. I'm stuck in the middle, as I have the profile of a researcher but my career was ruined by the pandemic- it disrupted me from 2020-2023. Second, researching alone as opposed to in teams can dramatically reduce the pace of production. I'm submitting a backlog of solo papers several years old this spring. The one I just completed is a framework for managers to use when designing a new venture in a revolutionary technical area such as AI or Self Driving vehicles. Its called the 5 S Framework for Technical Venture Design (Sectors, Sourcing, Scaling, Standards, and Sequencing).   

Anyhoo, I have some time to spare to finish my assessment of Justin Turner. And let me remind you folks I don't hate the signing - its a B minus situation. However, several better opportunities could have been seized. Let's dig into that analysis!.  

Baseline Analysis: Cubs Team WAR Projections

Let's focus right now on the 11 field players, minus the catchers, and take a look at where we stand. 

I will ignore my own personal adjustments to WAR (MOJO) and report the most optimistic between Zips /Zips DC projection numbers. 

Interestingly, it comes out to roughly the same ceiling as when I use my own MOJO + Baseball References' WAR numbers!

 Fangraphs Team Projection, assuming no major injuries: 96.3 Wins

Swanson 4.5

Tucker     4.4

Hoerner  3.5 (injury Time)

Happ       3.4

PCA         3.3

Suzuki     3.1

Busch     2.3

Berti        1.3 (prorated 60% of a starters' plate appearances)

Turner     1 (prorated 80%)

Shaw     2.0

(Workman) .5 (pro-rated 30%) 

TOTAL: 28.8 

Other WAR:  17 pitching, 2.5 catching. 

Total: 48.3

48+48.3  = 96.3 

 

Given this particular assembly of players, we've got a lot to be proud of! Yay us!

However, The Fangraphs projection assumes Turner gets 478 plate appearances. Steamer has a more realistic expectation of 100 less, and projects a .5 WAR. I agree with this. 

Thus, I will be evaluating Turner as a ,5 WAR contributor (prorated 50%), not as a 1 WAR (80%) contributor. Starters average 600 plate appearances. 

How Good is This Bench?

Now, that being said, it would be possible to squeeze more war out of the bench (Berti/Turner/Workman).

First, players with ideal platoon splits could challenge for more playing time and markedly outperform certain starters. Those starters with hitting vulnerabilities close to, or below, league average are: PCA (vs left), Busch (vs Left), Swanson (vs both), Hoerner (vs. Right). A great bench player can actually outperform these splits, and thus be a routine pinch hitter for those starters. 

Turner, projected splits (me) : RHP .720 OPS LHP .740

Berti : RHP .700 LHP .740

Workman: RHP .730 LHP .690

PCA:  RHP . 770 LHP .640

Busch RHP .810 LHP .720

Swanson RHP. 730 LHP .730

Hoerner: RHP .700  LHP. 730

Suzuki: RHP .850 LHP .850

_____________________

Does Turner Create "profit" at the plate? No, because he can only sub for Busch or Suzuki and would underperform each of those players substantially. Even when platooning, he is maybe "breakeven" with Busch, because his slight advantage versus left hand pitchers is offset by his glove. Second, Turner has more value when subbing at DH for Suzuki vs left- handed pitching. In that situation, Suzuki replaces PCA and greatly increases CF OPS from .640 to .850; however, that would be true regardless of who covers DH. Turner is still barely above league average, and a DH is usually about 110 OPS+ or higher. Thus, he's not a positive difference maker in either DH or 1B; however, he does set a high floor because he's never had a bad season at the plate. Its rather easy to find players who can outperform at DH AND sub at multiple positions instead of just 1B. Yet we are paying 6 MM plus up to 2.5 MM for extended playing time, which is a pricey insurance policy. A more accurate contract would have been 3MM + 2 MM extended playing time.  

Does Turner Create Loss in the field? Yes, he is expected to be 1 WAR worse than Busch per 150 games played. that's a pricey deficit. So, we would go from a 2.3-3.0 WAR player to a 1.3 WAR player in the case of very early season-ending injury to Busch, for $8.5 mm. Thats a 300% premium on the usual price for a 1 War 1B.

What about Turner's Slugging? I've said before that slugging is a key stat for playing contender baseball. Cubs were .391 last year. Well, Turner Projects to be no higher than that number, meaning he doesn't add any slugging to the team average this year - if anything, he detracts from it. Not a good thing for a 1B/DH to set you backwards from your goal of more team slugging! I'd prefer a player with a .400+ slugging projection at the pricey bench bat.  

How Does Berti Fare overall? Berti is a fantastic signing. He can sub for Swanson, Hoerner, AND Busch, not to mention Shaw if he fails at 3rd. Furthermore, he has the potential to outhit Swanson or Hoerner against lefties, and match pace with Hoerner vs righties. Berti was pretty much the perfect guy to grab to fill in for the recovering Hoerner early on; and most of all, his glove is such a high floor that you don't worry about losing much WAR compared to two gold glove starters. Also, the guys he's backing up are OPS guys and good baserunners, and Berti is very solid in those stats. At 2-3MM, his contract was a steal, and easily worth 4-5 MM. In the worst case scenario, we lose Swanson for the season and Berti plays 2 WAR ball at SS and we pay him $3MM. Well, that's easily worth $6 MM, isn't it? I doubt the worst case happens, but if nagging injuries affect both Hoerner/Swanson, you can easily arrive at my quoted valuation. At his ceiling, Berti could even be worth Turner's $8.5 mm salary - Which Turner himself can't likely pull off!

How about Workman? Right now, he's a wild speculation. However, with his 20-30 SB target, and with a 20hr/600PA projection, much better than Mastrobouni or Madrigal, there's much to like. His glove is solid at 3rd and serviceable elsewhere in the infield, so he's a perfect platoon if Shaw needs to sit against any righties. Second, he could realistically outperform Hoerner or Swanson against some righty pitchers, meaning he's a potential increase in team hitting WAR. Third, the loss of glove performance when he subs is not bad enough to negate his hitting ability. Thus, projecting about 100 plate appearances, 300+ innings of junk time glove duty, and 40 pinch runner appearances in place of Suzuki/Busch/Turner/Catchers,  I'm being conservative to suggest .5 WAR but that's based on a difficult time getting on the field. I REALLY HOPE this guy works out because he looks like the convincing long term replacement for Mastrobouni, with a 3 WAR ceiling as a full-time player, similar to a Jon Berti from the opposite hand, but with more slugging. 

What if we End up With Nicky Lopez for Workman?  This takes us back to 0 WAR, with his great glove being negated by his lousy hitting. Not likely to cost us more than 1 real game - you know, a Cubs style doubleheader loss in the 11th inning when Lopez chokes on an easy at bat. That sorta thing.  

 

Example "Better Signings" Than Turner

These four are not exhaustive of the cheaper players with same or better fit to the Cubs roster, but they were the most obvious free agents at 1B. 

 All of these guys are younger, similarly experienced as a bench/rotational piece, could have been signed for $4-6 million less, and can play 4 positions compared to Turner's 1 position. 

I won't repeat my analysis of Randal Grichuk and Ramon Laureano, but I will remind readers that the former produced 2.1 War in the same plate appearances as Turner is projected for 2025. I Understand fans really are freaking out about backup first, but either of those guys could have taken reps there all spring training and have instead focused on their value in the outfield and DH as right handed lefty killers. I had Laureano as a 1 to 1.5 WAR player worth 5-7 Million, but being paid a bit less. I had Grichuk as 2 years, 20 Million to be "accurately priced", but he ended up going for $5 mil back to Arizona. So let's pretend a veteran 1b role seriously matters, which I'm not convinced it does:

#1: Donovan Solano. 

Here's a guy that signed for 1 year, 3.5 MM for the Marlins but would easily match or beat Turner's $8.5 MM valuation for the Cubs. In 2024, Solano slashed .286/.343/.417 in 309 plate appearances. He produced 8 HR last year, which puts him on pace to beat Turner by about 3 HR in a full season of duties. He's a career .381 slugger, with his last four seasons averaging around .400. His Steamer projection is 356 plate appearances, .6 War = roughly identical to Justin Turner. But he's also 3 years younger than Turner. He's been a plus-to-average glove all over the infield, and was a plus first baseman in relief last year, meaning he could handle junk time performance all over. Furthermore, he isn't projected to cost us much glove performance. All in all, he would be worth about 1.4 War in Turner's same 1.0 WAR insurance role, if Busch went Down, while also finding opportunities to sub at SS or 3B in low leverage situations. He was still avialable in January, and thus was only bypassed due to the Bregman chase.  

#2: Connor Joe. 

This one isn't really a "better" signing, so much as it is so much cheaper. Connor Joe signed a 1MM deal with the Pirates. Connor is a 1B who can play all 3 outfield positions - thus, unlike Turner, he can directly sub for PCA and add some bat.  Zips DC projects his value at .9 WAR across a similar number of appearances as Justin Turner or Donovan Solano. Frankly, he's a better glove now than both of the older vets, but has balanced splits that don't give him any clear platoon opportunities beyond 1B or Center field; and, just like Turner or Solano, it's a miniscule advantage over our starters. His career slugging is .391 and therefore doesn't add anything over 2024, but his career walk rate is very high and likely to exceed Turner or Solano in 2025 (Zips 11%).  In summation, Joe could have provided the same quality WAR contribution as Solano at a tiny price. He was gone months ago. If the Cubs were intending to cut Canario, Joe would have immediately filled the same "steady high hit tool" role as Solano or Turner that Canario can't fill.

#3: Mark Canha.

This one's a head scratcher. Unsure why he's still unsigned. A year younger than Solano at 36, Canha can cover 1B and OF like Connor Joe. His Zips DC projection is .8 WAR with 420 plate appearances. My estimate is he would have taken $3 million to play at first, outfield, and DH and could truly match Turner's supposed value at 8.5MM for a full season (1.2 WAR). He's barely a better glove at 1B than Turner but can actually repeat that performance at 4 positions.  

Suppose we were fine with Berti, Workman, and our AAA guys covering backup situations in the infield. His career slugging is .414 (>.391), and his hitting profile isn't far from Solano, but with a tad more upside power and a bit less average than Turner.

#4. Yasmani Grandal 

 Again, I'm not sure what the holdup is. Maybe injury? Grandal is a 1B and catcher- a valuable set of tools! He has a lifetime .424 slugging with .228 .304 .400 slashes from 2024. Definitely has the slugging to make a difference, but the hit tool isn't there. On the other hand, having a 3rd catcher as a 1B/DH is gold- and he's a catcher with several plus microtools who had a 1.6 WAR season in 2024. 

Personally, I LOVE 1b/catchers as a 3rd roster spot, because frankly a 3rd guy who fills in for junk time takes a lot of pressure of your two starting catchers in a 162 game season. If anyone gets hurt, Ballesteros is the next man up, but wouldn't it be nice to have zero catcher worries and also improve team slugging? Yes. 

 

Trade Pieces: The final evaluation. 

Its always a better situation to sign a player that has net positive trade value to the league. IF the Cubs find they need a change of direction, some team out there will want a catcher (Grandal) or a 4-position utility guy with a plus hit tool (the other guys). Nobody wants Turner or his salary. Counsell is STUCK with him unless he cuts him. All the other guys could be traded for a hot upgrade player in a package - either pitcher or a replacement starter. As I said, all the suggestions i made would give this trade option a real life. 

Final Conclusion: How much does it matter?

Overall, Justin Turner set us back:

1) at least $4 million in extra salary over the alternatives

 2) multiple positions of glove coverage

3) lowers our WAR ceiling by about 1 compared to the best options

4) lowers our WAR floor by about .2 compared to the other options

5) We're stuck with the money- nobody will trade, so we have to cut him if we want a mid-season upgrade

6) We have 4 million less to pursue a final pitcher this year, with only about $20 million left to spend

My preferred signing? The player with the most trade value and slugging at the lowest price:

Donovan Solano for $4 mm + $1 MM incentives.   

As I said, I'm okay with the signing, but it only makes sense after everyone else is off the board, and if Canha/Grandal have bad health projections we don't know about. At half the price, Solano is the most likely player to have an up year and outperform Tucker, while also providing extra insurance bat at every infield position. 

How much does it matter? Mostly his mid-season trade value. Solano's tradability means he could be moved for ANY infield position in need, if the situation arises; or, in a package deal for a replacement starting pitcher. By the time that decision needs to be made, It is possible that Jonathan Long would be ready and able to cover backup 1B. He's already looking like a guy who can contribute in the majors for short stretches. 

In a perfect world, Grandal would repeat his 2024 performance as a 2025 Cub. But his downside signals are too strong. 

Edited by ryanrc

5 Comments


Recommended Comments

BigbadB

Posted

I waited until you finished your article before commenting. It was well thought out, but it also ignores a lot of factors that went into the decision to sign Turner. 

First off, Solano and Grichuk were signed long before the Bregman sweepstakes were completed. Grichuk is primarily an OF, and he just wasn't going to go to a team that already has 4 all star caliber OFers. Berti wasn't even signed until January 28th. So the earmarkings of what the infield was going to look like hadn't even taken shape yet. Signing a free agent has to be agreeable from both sides of the table.

The Cubs were still in the trade for a pitcher or sign Bregman mode, where improving the lineup was the first priority over a bat that can play 1b. If the Cubs did trade for Cease, it's possible that someone like Cronenworth or some other 1b capable bat could have been included in the deal to help the Padres with their financial struggles. Bregman would have made it where they may not have been able to afford a 1b bench bat. Basically, it would have been silly to put backup 1b as an option ahead of signing a Bregman or trading for Cease. 

Now, once those guys are off the table and the appearance of spring deals is done, figuring out any gaping hole and filling it with the best of what's left makes a bit of sense. I'm not offended you used the term "freaking out" about not having a back up 1b or "pumped" about signing Justin Turner, but I will point out that this is not something I have seen, and seems to be stretching the truth like social media pages dramatize for "clicks". 

You point out that the Berti signing was a great value and Justin Turner's is not. I think we can all agree with that. But sometimes you do have to overpay for things. A rookie player is amazing value if he is productive. Having several allows you to be able to overpay to improve the roster. The same can be said for late spring signings after you have exhausted all efforts to improve the team and you still have a wheelbarrow full of money to improve the end of the bench. Signing Turner does not stop the Cubs from adding pretty much whoever they want at the trade deadline, so in what way, shape or form does a Turner signing slow down this team in the big picture?

The bottom line is that Turner is likely a better bench bat than Lopez, Canario, Brujan and Workman, and we should probably include Kelly in that also for PH reasons. Those are the guys the front office should have been comparing Turner to, along with whoever was still a free agent like Canha or Grandal.  

Finally, Turner is not stopping the Cubs from improving even if there was a significant injury. As you said yourself, there are plenty of guys that can be brought in to fill that void. What we don't want is another year of useless bench bats like Wisdom, Mastrobuoni, Madrigal and Mervis taking a significant percentage of the bench at bats. So, if you want to compare bench production at 1b, do so by comparing Turner's projected stats to Wisdom and Mervis from last year. I think we can all agree that he should be able to top those pretty easily. 

 

ryanrc

Posted

6 hours ago, BigbadB said:

I waited until you finished your article before commenting. It was well thought out, but it also ignores a lot of factors that went into the decision to sign Turner. 

First off, Solano and Grichuk were signed long before the Bregman sweepstakes were completed. Grichuk is primarily an OF, and he just wasn't going to go to a team that already has 4 all star caliber OFers. Berti wasn't even signed until January 28th. So the earmarkings of what the infield was going to look like hadn't even taken shape yet. Signing a free agent has to be agreeable from both sides of the table.

The Cubs were still in the trade for a pitcher or sign Bregman mode, where improving the lineup was the first priority over a bat that can play 1b. If the Cubs did trade for Cease, it's possible that someone like Cronenworth or some other 1b capable bat could have been included in the deal to help the Padres with their financial struggles. Bregman would have made it where they may not have been able to afford a 1b bench bat. Basically, it would have been silly to put backup 1b as an option ahead of signing a Bregman or trading for Cease. 

Now, once those guys are off the table and the appearance of spring deals is done, figuring out any gaping hole and filling it with the best of what's left makes a bit of sense. I'm not offended you used the term "freaking out" about not having a back up 1b or "pumped" about signing Justin Turner, but I will point out that this is not something I have seen, and seems to be stretching the truth like social media pages dramatize for "clicks". 

You point out that the Berti signing was a great value and Justin Turner's is not. I think we can all agree with that. But sometimes you do have to overpay for things. A rookie player is amazing value if he is productive. Having several allows you to be able to overpay to improve the roster. The same can be said for late spring signings after you have exhausted all efforts to improve the team and you still have a wheelbarrow full of money to improve the end of the bench. Signing Turner does not stop the Cubs from adding pretty much whoever they want at the trade deadline, so in what way, shape or form does a Turner signing slow down this team in the big picture?

The bottom line is that Turner is likely a better bench bat than Lopez, Canario, Brujan and Workman, and we should probably include Kelly in that also for PH reasons. Those are the guys the front office should have been comparing Turner to, along with whoever was still a free agent like Canha or Grandal.  

Finally, Turner is not stopping the Cubs from improving even if there was a significant injury. As you said yourself, there are plenty of guys that can be brought in to fill that void. What we don't want is another year of useless bench bats like Wisdom, Mastrobuoni, Madrigal and Mervis taking a significant percentage of the bench at bats. So, if you want to compare bench production at 1b, do so by comparing Turner's projected stats to Wisdom and Mervis from last year. I think we can all agree that he should be able to top those pretty easily. 

 

thanks for your reply, but your very first complaint was false: I did NOT ignore that these guys were off the table already, I specifically wrote the entire article about "Bergman chase, leading to turner instead of these better alternatives". it was the whole main idea, my friend. 

ryanrc

Posted

However, let me add that you're correct about most of the rest of yit, and I agree. 

remember, the purpose of my blog is not to beat up on the Cubs. Its to find ways that Hoyer's roster strategy missed. Other GMS sometimes make better calls- for example, signing Solano early was still a good idea here, and I was annoyed he didnt take care of the bench before Bregman. Because obviously, if you're out of discretionary money to win a bidding war in contract length, then there's no reason to go after Bregman in the first place. 

My ideal solution would be WIN THE BREGMAN BID, backload the contract just like Red Sox did (but not identically constructed). 

If you already knew you werent going to win, you'd have a stronger, cheaper bench, and more money for an elite midseason pitcher/hitter trade.  

BigbadB

Posted

18 hours ago, ryanrc said:

However, let me add that you're correct about most of the rest of yit, and I agree. 

remember, the purpose of my blog is not to beat up on the Cubs. Its to find ways that Hoyer's roster strategy missed. Other GMS sometimes make better calls- for example, signing Solano early was still a good idea here, and I was annoyed he didnt take care of the bench before Bregman. Because obviously, if you're out of discretionary money to win a bidding war in contract length, then there's no reason to go after Bregman in the first place. 

My ideal solution would be WIN THE BREGMAN BID, backload the contract just like Red Sox did (but not identically constructed). 

If you already knew you werent going to win, you'd have a stronger, cheaper bench, and more money for an elite midseason pitcher/hitter trade.  

I will agree the end result is not the preferred outcome. I lean towards the fact they missed some golden opportunities to really improve this team, but felt it would be just another failure if they didn't get some better bench bats.

I can agree with "Meh" as the overall end product. I just don't agree that signing Turner given what they had left to sign was "Meh".

ryanrc

Posted

 Turner was the last best option. everyone else was gone. Hence, we got hosed for almost double the price. 
Let's hope his red beard and social media brand helps young fans take notice. 
There is a notable advantage to signing household names from the other big markets (Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, players especially). You get opposing fans curious about Cubs and watching more, to see how "their guy" is doing now he's a Cub.  
That's not worth an extra 4 million, but maybe Justin's brand recoups a fraction of that money in ratings during a postseason run. Player brand is the best way to draw viewers who normally dont watch the Cubs.  

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