When was the last time you where in Pittsburg? I was there last year for a few Cub games over the couse of a weekend. The city is alive and well. The downtown is thriving and they have new shopping and tourism attractions. IMO, the problem is that they haven't been good in a long time. If the Steelers can sell out Heinz field, the Pirates can sell out PNC. CubinNY, please don't take this personally because I value your opinion in all topics, but I am going to take issue with everything you said in your post. Pittsburgh did a good job with the actual stadiums as far as they are great places to watch games. That's about it. Several attempted downtown renewal projects have landed the city in record debt. Each day a new developer or retailer pulls out. The mayor for the last 12 (I believe) ran the city clear into the ground. The economy is DEAD in that area and looks to remain so unless the newly elected Bob O'Connor can do something (doubtful as he was elected by the same party machine that's been running the place for 90+ years). The city is neither alive, nor well. The ownership group, headed by McClatchy, but really run by a guy from WV whose name escapes me at the moment, is a joke. They pocketed their revenue sharing money instead of reinvesting it under the guise that they put it into their minor leagues. While I agree their farm has improved, that is a product of Littlefield and a scouting department that was already there, not some magical upgrade in spending. They could care less about putting a winner on the field, only turning a profit. Every few years they throw around a few huge contracts to placate a desperate fan base. This time, its Jason Bay. Unless Tracy can win with kids making next to nothing, they are in trouble and will continue to be as they will not be giving out too many more Bay-like deals. The only good business going is the Steelers organization. If the Penguins don't get a new arena, they play on the oldest building in the league, they'll be on their way. Mario Lemieux can only save their bacon so many times. Again, CubinNY, I didn't mean to take a swing at you, but I know my hometown too well not to react (well, overreact).[/b]