Keener98

who?

Truf, please tell me you think Soto can do better than Bowen? How can he not? Earlier in the thread the argument was being made that Soto was no better than Bowen. That's not exactly right. The argument was that Soto probably isn't much better than Bowen. Again, career minor league OPS: Soto .715 Bowen .715 Over a big sample, they're almost identical players. Cripes, did you see my argument from earlier in the thread? Bowen's two years older than Soto and Bowen spent every year from 1999 to 2006 spending at least part of his time in the minor leagues. He's spent significantly more time in the major leagues compared to Soto. They are NOT almost identical players. Bowen has 240 career at bats. That's hardly a substantial MLB track record. Also, I've learned from this board that young players should not be expected to hit well when they play only part time. (See Matt Murton) So I'm not sure why you've decided that Bowen can't hack it in the majors based on his 240 at bats over 4-5 years. And, in any event, I'd prefer they play Soto five times a week for the rest of the season. I just think the expectations are a bit too high right now for a guy who's had 250 at bats that look completely and totally like an aberration from his career performance. Might it be a sustainable jump? Of course. See my post for what I would like/expect out of Soto. I dont think anybody here is expecting an All Star, but with the crap alternatives we have, Soto like you said should be given starts 5 days a week.

He fell and broke his body.

Truf, please tell me you think Soto can do better than Bowen? How can he not? Earlier in the thread the argument was being made that Soto was no better than Bowen. That's not exactly right. The argument was that Soto probably isn't much better than Bowen. Again, career minor league OPS: Soto .715 Bowen .715 Over a big sample, they're almost identical players. Cripes, did you see my argument from earlier in the thread? Bowen's two years older than Soto and Bowen spent every year from 1999 to 2006 spending at least part of his time in the minor leagues. He's spent significantly more time in the major leagues compared to Soto. They are NOT almost identical players. Bowen has 240 career at bats. That's hardly a substantial MLB track record. Also, I've learned from this board that young players should not be expected to hit well when they play only part time. (See Matt Murton) So I'm not sure why you've decided that Bowen can't hack it in the majors based on his 240 at bats over 4-5 years. Bowen hasnt shown any ability to hit ever at any level. Hes never had a "breakout" season even while in the minors. Soto has had a breakout season this year, and while I dont think he will carry that performance into the Majors, there is reason to believe he may have gotten over that hump, and could give a .270 average with a .330 or so OBP. Hell Id love that out of the catchers spot right now.

Truf, please tell me you think Soto can do better than Bowen? Keener, please tell me you think Jones can do better than Pie? Please tell me where Pie, and Jones belong in this discussion? But for the record, Jones should do better in the 2nd half(not hard to top his first half), but Pie has shown at every level hes been that he makes adjustments. Every level he has been he has stuggled early, and then made the adjustment to become very successful. But the Cubs right now have to many holes in their lineup(ss, c) to play Pie thru these struggles, and let him make his adjustment. If the Cubs improved at ss or C, then I whole heartedly believe Pie should be starting in CF every day, and letting him make his adjustments.

Truf, please tell me you think Soto can do better than Bowen? better than bowen has lately? Sure. But you're judging on a very small sample size. Am I?.213 .311 .346 .657 Those are somebodys career numbers, and that somebody has a major league job.

Truf, please tell me you think Soto can do better than Bowen? How can he not? Earlier in the thread the argument was being made that Soto was no better than Bowen.

Truf, please tell me you think Soto can do better than Bowen?

Back to back days giving up 10 plus, you gotta love it.

If Izturis had a big day every time we bitched about him being in the lineup he'd be batting .600 Yeah, oh well. I just sit back and enjoy the bitch sessions that ensue. He's on the team, its inevitable he is going to start every now and then. I particularly love the "Cubs are guaranteed to lose" posts that usually follow. And the theory holds true once again... You know, its a good thing we have you around to show how smart you are, and how stupid all us ignorant people are. I really dont know what we'd do if we didnt have you around to do this.....

Haha and Izturis keeps it going.

SORIANO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lilly says kiss my ass Oswalt! Woo

Dont run Soriano, dont worry about it :roll:

OMG Hill shut the hell up. WOW horrible

Shhhhh. Im having fun right now, watching somebody defend Izturis :wink: I'm not defending him. He sucks. But so does Theriot. But Theriot sucks less, that is my point

Soto isn't much better than Bown, and Jones is probably better than Pagan. Izturis blows, but then again so do all our other SS. I'd have put Fontenot at short since Lilly is a fly ball pitcher. What of his .341 avg in the minors and ONE game in the big leagues this year has brought you to this conclusion? Career Minor League OPS: Bowen .715 Soto .715 Seems like a reasonable conclusion to me. Except that it takes catchers longer to develop usually, and nothing in Bowens major league career shows he is anything more than a backup, where as Sotos year this year could mean he has found it. It wont take much for Soto to be better than Bowen. Maybe, but Soto isn't much better right now, and Oswalt is a RHP who is better against RH batters. Eventually Soto will hopefully be better, but right now the difference is really negligible. Bowen is hitting .216 with a .318 OBP against rightys this year, you dont think Soto could do better than that? He probably can. But looking at their identical minor league OPS, it's entirely reasonable to think that they're pretty comparable players.[/quote Has Bowen ever put up the numbers in AAA that Soto is this year?

Shhhhh. Im having fun right now, watching somebody defend Izturis :wink:

Soto isn't much better than Bown, and Jones is probably better than Pagan. Izturis blows, but then again so do all our other SS. I'd have put Fontenot at short since Lilly is a fly ball pitcher. What of his .341 avg in the minors and ONE game in the big leagues this year has brought you to this conclusion? Career Minor League OPS: Bowen .715 Soto .715 Seems like a reasonable conclusion to me. Except that it takes catchers longer to develop usually, and nothing in Bowens major league career shows he is anything more than a backup, where as Sotos year this year could mean he has found it. It wont take much for Soto to be better than Bowen. Maybe, but Soto isn't much better right now, and Oswalt is a RHP who is better against RH batters. Eventually Soto will hopefully be better, but right now the difference is really negligible. I love how people on this board want it both ways. They think it's outrageous that Piniella expects Pie or Soto to produce right away at the big league level and think its ridiculous that he would bench them after two weeks of unproductive at bats. But when someone suggests that Jones is likely to outproduce Pie in the second half, those very same people are utterly disgusted by that concept too. You can't have it both ways. Sotos played 1 damn game, what the hell are you talking about?

Soto isn't much better than Bown, and Jones is probably better than Pagan. Izturis blows, but then again so do all our other SS. I'd have put Fontenot at short since Lilly is a fly ball pitcher. What of his .341 avg in the minors and ONE game in the big leagues this year has brought you to this conclusion? Career Minor League OPS: Bowen .715 Soto .715 Seems like a reasonable conclusion to me. Except that it takes catchers longer to develop usually, and nothing in Bowens major league career shows he is anything more than a backup, where as Sotos year this year could mean he has found it. It wont take much for Soto to be better than Bowen. Maybe, but Soto isn't much better right now, and Oswalt is a RHP who is better against RH batters. Eventually Soto will hopefully be better, but right now the difference is really negligible. Bowen is hitting .216 with a .318 OBP against rightys this year, you dont think Soto could do better than that?

LOL They have played 1 game since having 4 days off, no reason anybody on this team needs a day off right now. Theriot is 5 for his last 10, can Izturis say that about himself at any point this season? Doubtful May 12-14, Izturis was 8-13. Try again. Hey I said doubtful, not impossible. OK lets try this one. Theriot has a hit in 8 of the last 10 games hes played in, and the 2 games he doesnt, he only had 1 ab. Can Izturis say that about himself at any point this season? Doubtful

If Izturis had a big day every time we bitched about him being in the lineup he'd be batting .600 Yeah, oh well. I just sit back and enjoy the bitch sessions that ensue. He's on the team, its inevitable he is going to start every now and then. I particularly love the "Cubs are guaranteed to lose" posts that usually follow. Agreed. If my math is right, against right-handers, Theriot reaches base about once every six games more than Izturis. The notion that this team is dramatically worse with Izturis at SS instead of Theriot is hyperbolic nonsense. Yet, no one ever complains about Theriot hitting second. Ryan Theriot .343 OBP Isturis .294... Do I really need to say more? Against RHP, Theriot has a .347 OBP, Izturis has a .316 OBP. That's the equivalent of about 18 extra times on base over a full season, or about 1 time every 9 games. Sure, I'd rather play Theriot, but is a once per nine game difference really enough to act like the Cubs have absolutely no chance to win because Izturis is in the lineup? I havent acted like the Cubs have no chance because of Izturis in the lineup. I was responding to your question about why nobody complains when Theriot is batting 2nd, and its pretty obvious.

LOL They have played 1 game since having 4 days off, no reason anybody on this team needs a day off right now. Theriot is 5 for his last 10, can Izturis say that about himself at any point this season? Doubtful

Soto isn't much better than Bown, and Jones is probably better than Pagan. Izturis blows, but then again so do all our other SS. I'd have put Fontenot at short since Lilly is a fly ball pitcher. What of his .341 avg in the minors and ONE game in the big leagues this year has brought you to this conclusion? Career Minor League OPS: Bowen .715 Soto .715 Seems like a reasonable conclusion to me. Except that it takes catchers longer to develop usually, and nothing in Bowens major league career shows he is anything more than a backup, where as Sotos year this year could mean he has found it. It wont take much for Soto to be better than Bowen.

If Izturis had a big day every time we bitched about him being in the lineup he'd be batting .600 Yeah, oh well. I just sit back and enjoy the bitch sessions that ensue. He's on the team, its inevitable he is going to start every now and then. I particularly love the "Cubs are guaranteed to lose" posts that usually follow. Agreed. If my math is right, against right-handers, Theriot reaches base about once every six games more than Izturis. The notion that this team is dramatically worse with Izturis at SS instead of Theriot is hyperbolic nonsense. Yet, no one ever complains about Theriot hitting second. Ryan Theriot .343 OBP Isturis .294... Do I really need to say more?