Keener98

Hahahaha :lol: He is a professional athlete, if he can't handle the pressure he should work as a toll booth operator or something. Jeez, the excuses are already starting to roll before the game even starts. Would be nice to see him step up and force Lou to play him. Whether or not you want to admit it, expecting baseball players to produce IN THIS GAME RIGHT NOW TODAY or be labelled as not getting the job done is just asinine. That's how they've dealt with Murton this year. You simply can't hand a guy a game, or even 3-4 games, and say you better capitalize on your opportunity. Playing time should be doled out based on reasonable expectations of future performance, not how you did last week. Unfortunately, Baseball is a performance driven sport. There are hundreds of hungry players that want to steal your job at the first opportunity. I agree that you can't expect players to produce in the first 3-4 games, but Murton does not fall into the "only got 3-4 games to produce" category. I truly hope he comes out fighting for a spot tonight and catches fire. The Cubs could really use his second half numbers from last year with Soriano out. Then why is Marquis still starting? That sentence is not true at all. There are alot of factors that go into playing besides performance.

So last July Hendry turns down this deal, but then in the followling offseason gives a 3 yr 21 million contract to Jason Marquis, and a 4 yr 40 million for Ted Lilly? HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA, I love this organization.

He's been beyond awful for over two months now. But his overall ERA is decent damnit!

Marquis has given up 3 runs or less in 15 of his 23 starts this year. First you say that I'm being unfair in comparing him to 5th starters and that he should be compared to 3rd starters. Fine. So I compare him to 3rd starters and show you that he's performing better than 3rd starters league wide. Whoops. Now you basically say that he rarely gives up 3 runs or less. I then show you that he's actually done that in 2 out of every 3 starts. Whoops again. What are you going to make up next? Please, if you want to continue making crap up just let me know so I can stop wasting my time responding to you. The bottom line is that Marquis hasn't been near as bad as you'd like to think he has. And since it appears that you have no idea where to find his stats, let me help you out: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6493/gamelog Ok smartass why the hell is it so hard for you to comprehend the fact that his stats are skewed from his 2.35 ERA to start the damn season? You keep ignoring the fact that he has been on a downward spiral for every month of the season, and this is the same throughout his career. Jason Marquis since July 1st has given up earned runs in this order:1, 6,6 2,6,3,5. So like I said he might give you the an outing of 3 runs or less, but its going to be surrounded by 2 to 3 starts of 5+. Is that really that hard to comprehend? Also Marquis at this point is taxing our BP. Since July 1st he has had 4 of his 7 starts he hasnt even made it to the 6th inning, and 1 more start of exactly 6 innings pitched. He not only is hurting us in the games he pitches, but hes causeing the BP to get overused, hurting the team, in games after his starts. So please, if you want to continue ignoring the facts of his terrible 2nd half now and in his entire career, please let me know so I can stop wasting my time responding to you. The bottom line is Marquis had a good month in a half of a season, and is now a sure bet for 1 "good" start out of 3-4 bad one type pitcher who will also kill your bullpen while doing it. Something the Cubs can not afford to have while being in the middle of a pennant race.

Sigh. That's just not smart decision making. That's just his opinion. Besides, it might work well. He isn't the greatest 2B either... Lou is willing to sacrifice some defense if the player can hit so if EPatt hits he'll play somewhere. I fail to see where it makes sense to call up a 2nd basemen who hasnt seen major league pitching at all, and play him in CF, over your top prospect who may have made the adjustments needed and plays top notch D.

I'm not going to claim that Kendall has a gun, but he has zero passballs as a Cub this year (so it's unclear why you think 'a lot balls' got by him), and a good number of the stolen bases against the Cubs the past week have been on the pitcher. Many didn't even warrant a throw because he knows he has no chance in hell at throwing anybody out, so he might as well save his energy.. fixed

So that probably means he will play 2nd. So Im guessing EPatt in CF, with Floyd in right, and Jones in left, just another way to keep Murton from starting

This isn't entirely true. Lou has given Cedeno a second chance and he's allowing Eyre and Jones the opportunity to play; one could argue that he was forced to do so by the contracts of the last two but that didn't stop him from burying JJ (and Cesar) for long stretches a few months ago. On the subject of Pie, this team can't afford to allow him to hit .200. There are 52 games left in this season and Lou isn't a AAA manager. Overall, Lou has done a fine job this season and while I like Murton, I'm not going to lobby for him over any other player. I don't care who plays just as long as they are productive. It's not like Murton was hitting the cover off the ball at any point this season for the Cubs (and his defense was a problem--and it had very little to do with playing RF for the first time because he failed to make routine plays on balls that should have been in the glove). Hell, we're talking about the same manager who thought Theriot wasn't a ML SS earlier in the year. Yet, he allowed Theriot to play enough to win the job fulltime. When? The only players under Lou who have been given 2nd chances are proven veterans like Jones and Eyre. What? Do you really think Cedeno would have been recalled if Lou didn't want him on the 25 man roster? He would have told Hendry "no way." I think being recalled after a failed attempt to stay here earlier in the year qualifies as a second chance. The Cubs could have kept Izturis to fill the bench role. Instead, they moved him and made room for their own guys. I think you are confusing Lou with Dusty. Lou is going to play whomever will hit the ball without regard for tenure. Him being recalled, and him given a 2nd chance are different. He is "here" but its not like hes been given a chance to play. Its pretty obvious Lou likes Theriot because of his "grittyness" and "spark" You cant compare his situation to that of Murton, or Pie. Cedeno is Theriot's backup! By definition, he's only going to get limited time. Again, if Lou didn't have confidence in Ronny he would have recommended that the Cubs keep Izturis for the bench (which, at the very least would be a Dusty move. Although, it's more likely that Theriot would have remained Izturis' backup under Dusty). Cedeno can also play 2nd, and Fontenot keeps being put there even against lefties. Cedeno has not been given a 2nd chance by being recalled. The only reason Fontenot has started against some lefties is because Lou likes to stick a LH bat in the lineup against them. Ronny is Riot's backup. He would be the third option at 2B behind DeRo and Fontenot... Lately, DeRo was getting the 2B starts but that may change with Sori out because he may need to play OF. The last 2 games are the only ones recently against a lefty that Lou has stuck a LH bat in the lineup. He has consistently went with an all righty lineup vs leftys. Look back further. I recall Fontenot starting against some tough LHPs last month. He has 44 ABs versus lefties. Those starts came when Lee was suspended, or DeRo was out with his minor injurys.

If Murt cant even get in the game after losing a starting OF and over a left handed 2nd baseman, then I think its safe to assume Murton isnt going to be seeing a lot of playing time.

This isn't entirely true. Lou has given Cedeno a second chance and he's allowing Eyre and Jones the opportunity to play; one could argue that he was forced to do so by the contracts of the last two but that didn't stop him from burying JJ (and Cesar) for long stretches a few months ago. On the subject of Pie, this team can't afford to allow him to hit .200. There are 52 games left in this season and Lou isn't a AAA manager. Overall, Lou has done a fine job this season and while I like Murton, I'm not going to lobby for him over any other player. I don't care who plays just as long as they are productive. It's not like Murton was hitting the cover off the ball at any point this season for the Cubs (and his defense was a problem--and it had very little to do with playing RF for the first time because he failed to make routine plays on balls that should have been in the glove). Hell, we're talking about the same manager who thought Theriot wasn't a ML SS earlier in the year. Yet, he allowed Theriot to play enough to win the job fulltime. When? The only players under Lou who have been given 2nd chances are proven veterans like Jones and Eyre. What? Do you really think Cedeno would have been recalled if Lou didn't want him on the 25 man roster? He would have told Hendry "no way." I think being recalled after a failed attempt to stay here earlier in the year qualifies as a second chance. The Cubs could have kept Izturis to fill the bench role. Instead, they moved him and made room for their own guys. I think you are confusing Lou with Dusty. Lou is going to play whomever will hit the ball without regard for tenure. Him being recalled, and him given a 2nd chance are different. He is "here" but its not like hes been given a chance to play. Its pretty obvious Lou likes Theriot because of his "grittyness" and "spark" You cant compare his situation to that of Murton, or Pie. Cedeno is Theriot's backup! By definition, he's only going to get limited time. Again, if Lou didn't have confidence in Ronny he would have recommended that the Cubs keep Izturis for the bench (which, at the very least would be a Dusty move. Although, it's more likely that Theriot would have remained Izturis' backup under Dusty). Cedeno can also play 2nd, and Fontenot keeps being put there even against lefties. Cedeno has not been given a 2nd chance by being recalled. The only reason Fontenot has started against some lefties is because Lou likes to stick a LH bat in the lineup against them. Ronny is Riot's backup. He would be the third option at 2B behind DeRo and Fontenot... Lately, DeRo was getting the 2B starts but that may change with Sori out because he may need to play OF. The last 2 games are the only ones recently against a lefty that Lou has stuck a LH bat in the lineup. He has consistently went with an all righty lineup vs leftys.

I understand what you are saying, but there are alot of things that get discussed here that are alot more unrealistic than replacing Marquis with Gallgher.

Why? Marshall and Hill will be fine. Don't worry about it. But Marquis wont, so there is reason to have concern about our rotation. Show me a team in the NL that doesn't have at least 1 or 2 question marks in their rotation? There are better options than Marquis starting is my point. With where the Cubs are at right now in the race, they cant afford to be giving a game away every 5 days. The Cubs are not going to release/DFA Marquis. Get over it I liked it better when you ignored me. The point of a message board is to discuss these things, and while I know its not going to happen, it doesnt mean it cant still be discussed. So you my friend, get over it. I agree that he has been VERY bad recently, but unfortunately, getting rid of him really isn't an option. Maybe we can luck into an injury and he'll lose his job to Gallagher. That's the only hope of getting him out of the rotation Now that I can agree with, the chances of him being removed are probably slim and none because of his contract situation. While I dont wish injury upon anybody, I think right now that is our only hope, unfortunately.

Why? Marshall and Hill will be fine. Don't worry about it. But Marquis wont, so there is reason to have concern about our rotation. Show me a team in the NL that doesn't have at least 1 or 2 question marks in their rotation? There are better options than Marquis starting is my point. With where the Cubs are at right now in the race, they cant afford to be giving a game away every 5 days. Who? Gallagher That's an option, but he wasn't tearing it up in middle relief. His 5.73 era with a 5/8 K/BB wasn't too impressive. The point being every team going is going to have question marks in their rotation. Not many teams have studs 1-5. Him not tearing it up in middle relief doenst mean much though. He was used once every 5-7 days its pretty hard to be an effective pitcher being used like that. But even with his sporadic work, he showed he could get ML hitters out, just look at his 4 inning outing before being demoted again. Also since then he has gone 3-1 with a 2.16 ERA in AAA, the same AAA that guys like Soto, Pie, Patterson, Cedeno, have put up very very good numbers. Furthermore, I dont expect the rotation to be filled with studs 1-5, but I would like and hope that 1-5 can be filled adequately, and right now its not.

Why? Marshall and Hill will be fine. Don't worry about it. But Marquis wont, so there is reason to have concern about our rotation. Show me a team in the NL that doesn't have at least 1 or 2 question marks in their rotation? There are better options than Marquis starting is my point. With where the Cubs are at right now in the race, they cant afford to be giving a game away every 5 days. The Cubs are not going to release/DFA Marquis. Get over it I liked it better when you ignored me. The point of a message board is to discuss these things, and while I know its not going to happen, it doesnt mean it cant still be discussed. So you my friend, get over it.

Exactly Ryan was "benched" to get his swing back because Lou said his bat was getting slow. Not because of him being in the doghouse like Cedeno, Murton, Pie. It seems as if once a young player gets in Lous doghouse there is no coming out of it, but a Veteran gets his chance to work his way out of it. Cedeno wouldnt be on the team if Lou didn't want him. Pie wasn't in the doghouse he didn't hit. We will have to agree to disagree, because him being here means nothing. It was the most logical choise with how Ronny was hitting, and how much Izturis sucked.

This isn't entirely true. Lou has given Cedeno a second chance and he's allowing Eyre and Jones the opportunity to play; one could argue that he was forced to do so by the contracts of the last two but that didn't stop him from burying JJ (and Cesar) for long stretches a few months ago. On the subject of Pie, this team can't afford to allow him to hit .200. There are 52 games left in this season and Lou isn't a AAA manager. Overall, Lou has done a fine job this season and while I like Murton, I'm not going to lobby for him over any other player. I don't care who plays just as long as they are productive. It's not like Murton was hitting the cover off the ball at any point this season for the Cubs (and his defense was a problem--and it had very little to do with playing RF for the first time because he failed to make routine plays on balls that should have been in the glove). Hell, we're talking about the same manager who thought Theriot wasn't a ML SS earlier in the year. Yet, he allowed Theriot to play enough to win the job fulltime. When? The only players under Lou who have been given 2nd chances are proven veterans like Jones and Eyre. What? Do you really think Cedeno would have been recalled if Lou didn't want him on the 25 man roster? He would have told Hendry "no way." I think being recalled after a failed attempt to stay here earlier in the year qualifies as a second chance. The Cubs could have kept Izturis to fill the bench role. Instead, they moved him and made room for their own guys. I think you are confusing Lou with Dusty. Lou is going to play whomever will hit the ball without regard for tenure. Him being recalled, and him given a 2nd chance are different. He is "here" but its not like hes been given a chance to play. Its pretty obvious Lou likes Theriot because of his "grittyness" and "spark" You cant compare his situation to that of Murton, or Pie. Cedeno is Theriot's backup! By definition, he's only going to get limited time. Again, if Lou didn't have confidence in Ronny he would have recommended that the Cubs keep Izturis for the bench (which, at the very least would be a Dusty move. Although, it's more likely that Theriot would have remained Izturis' backup under Dusty). Cedeno can also play 2nd, and Fontenot keeps being put there even against lefties. Cedeno has not been given a 2nd chance by being recalled.

Why? Marshall and Hill will be fine. Don't worry about it. But Marquis wont, so there is reason to have concern about our rotation. Show me a team in the NL that doesn't have at least 1 or 2 question marks in their rotation? There are better options than Marquis starting is my point. With where the Cubs are at right now in the race, they cant afford to be giving a game away every 5 days. Who? Gallagher

Exactly Ryan was "benched" to get his swing back because Lou said his bat was getting slow. Not because of him being in the doghouse like Cedeno, Murton, Pie. It seems as if once a young player gets in Lous doghouse there is no coming out of it, but a Veteran gets his chance to work his way out of it.

This isn't entirely true. Lou has given Cedeno a second chance and he's allowing Eyre and Jones the opportunity to play; one could argue that he was forced to do so by the contracts of the last two but that didn't stop him from burying JJ (and Cesar) for long stretches a few months ago. On the subject of Pie, this team can't afford to allow him to hit .200. There are 52 games left in this season and Lou isn't a AAA manager. Overall, Lou has done a fine job this season and while I like Murton, I'm not going to lobby for him over any other player. I don't care who plays just as long as they are productive. It's not like Murton was hitting the cover off the ball at any point this season for the Cubs (and his defense was a problem--and it had very little to do with playing RF for the first time because he failed to make routine plays on balls that should have been in the glove). Hell, we're talking about the same manager who thought Theriot wasn't a ML SS earlier in the year. Yet, he allowed Theriot to play enough to win the job fulltime. When? The only players under Lou who have been given 2nd chances are proven veterans like Jones and Eyre. What? Do you really think Cedeno would have been recalled if Lou didn't want him on the 25 man roster? He would have told Hendry "no way." I think being recalled after a failed attempt to stay here earlier in the year qualifies as a second chance. The Cubs could have kept Izturis to fill the bench role. Instead, they moved him and made room for their own guys. I think you are confusing Lou with Dusty. Lou is going to play whomever will hit the ball without regard for tenure. Him being recalled, and him given a 2nd chance are different. He is "here" but its not like hes been given a chance to play. Its pretty obvious Lou likes Theriot because of his "grittyness" and "spark" You cant compare his situation to that of Murton, or Pie.

Why? Marshall and Hill will be fine. Don't worry about it. But Marquis wont, so there is reason to have concern about our rotation. Show me a team in the NL that doesn't have at least 1 or 2 question marks in their rotation? There are better options than Marquis starting is my point. With where the Cubs are at right now in the race, they cant afford to be giving a game away every 5 days.

Why? Marshall and Hill will be fine. Don't worry about it. But Marquis wont, so there is reason to have concern about our rotation. Gallagher has been pretty good at AAA. He could take Marquis' spot in the rotation. LOL yea that will happen when pigs fly. Ive been on the Gallgher replaceing Marquis for awhile, but realistically its not happening. Marquis still has 2 years 14 mil left we are stuck with him. Oh and Gallagher has been VERY good at AAA. 3-1 2.16 ERA. Yea thats decent, but to bad we give out long term contracts to below average starting pitchers. The biggest problem is finding Gallagher a roster spot. If Marquis is still struggling as much as he has been, Lou might turn to Gallagher sometime in September when rosters expand. I see noway in hell Lou does that, with Marquis being owed so much money.

This isn't entirely true. Lou has given Cedeno a second chance and he's allowing Eyre and Jones the opportunity to play; one could argue that he was forced to do so by the contracts of the last two but that didn't stop him from burying JJ (and Cesar) for long stretches a few months ago. On the subject of Pie, this team can't afford to allow him to hit .200. There are 52 games left in this season and Lou isn't a AAA manager. Overall, Lou has done a fine job this season and while I like Murton, I'm not going to lobby for him over any other player. I don't care who plays just as long as they are productive. It's not like Murton was hitting the cover off the ball at any point this season for the Cubs (and his defense was a problem--and it had very little to do with playing RF for the first time because he failed to make routine plays on balls that should have been in the glove). Hell, we're talking about the same manager who thought Theriot wasn't a ML SS earlier in the year. Yet, he allowed Theriot to play enough to win the job fulltime. When? The only players under Lou who have been given 2nd chances are proven veterans like Jones and Eyre. Also, its not loke FLoyd is hitting the cover off the ball, or Pagan but yet we continue to see these guys in RF over a guy like Murton. Theriot definitely got a second chance after his awful month. Pie got a second chance (but not a third yet). Theriot got a 2nd chance because there was nobody other than Cesar Izturis to play over him. Pie was given sporadic AB"s and Lou is surprised he didnt play well?

Yay no more Miller, now can we do the same with Marquis, and call up Gallagher?

This isn't entirely true. Lou has given Cedeno a second chance and he's allowing Eyre and Jones the opportunity to play; one could argue that he was forced to do so by the contracts of the last two but that didn't stop him from burying JJ (and Cesar) for long stretches a few months ago. On the subject of Pie, this team can't afford to allow him to hit .200. There are 52 games left in this season and Lou isn't a AAA manager. Overall, Lou has done a fine job this season and while I like Murton, I'm not going to lobby for him over any other player. I don't care who plays just as long as they are productive. It's not like Murton was hitting the cover off the ball at any point this season for the Cubs (and his defense was a problem--and it had very little to do with playing RF for the first time because he failed to make routine plays on balls that should have been in the glove). Hell, we're talking about the same manager who thought Theriot wasn't a ML SS earlier in the year. Yet, he allowed Theriot to play enough to win the job fulltime. When? The only players under Lou who have been given 2nd chances are proven veterans like Jones and Eyre. Also, its not loke FLoyd is hitting the cover off the ball, or Pagan but yet we continue to see these guys in RF over a guy like Murton.

Why? Marshall and Hill will be fine. Don't worry about it. But Marquis wont, so there is reason to have concern about our rotation. Gallagher has been pretty good at AAA. He could take Marquis' spot in the rotation. LOL yea that will happen when pigs fly. Ive been on the Gallgher replaceing Marquis for awhile, but realistically its not happening. Marquis still has 2 years 14 mil left we are stuck with him. Oh and Gallagher has been VERY good at AAA. 3-1 2.16 ERA. Yea thats decent, but to bad we give out long term contracts to below average starting pitchers.