Keener98

Ok Ive been up over 24 hours right now, so Im not really sure who you are talking to.

No people brought up that Marquis was signed as an "innings eater" and they say hes been doing that. Anze and Myself are arguing that he isnt doing that, as he rarely makes it into and past the 6th inning. Marquis had a good first month in a half and outside of that all of his stats are horrible plain and simple. What you meant to say is, Marquis rarely doesn't make into the 6th. Whatever man Im done with you and your smartass remarks. Ive made my point in this thread, and you keep seeing what you want to see. Im done with you.

Who are you referring to consistently not making it into the 6th inning? Surely not Marquis. He's pitched into the 6th in all but 3 starts this year. But don't let those pesky facts get in the way of your This is just precious. Did you not see the absolutely horrific numbers that the Cubs' replacement starters had last year? You really want to live through that again? Runs allowed has nothing to do with eating innings. Once again your attempt to distort the question is obvious. Although I'm again curious about who you're referring to here, since Marquis has an ERA much closer to 4 than 5. Once again try reading the post. I said into and PAST the 6th inning for one. Two, are you really not counting the 5 other times he hasnt even thrown a pitch in the 6th inning, and the 3 other times hes only got 1 out in the 6th inning? And once again where is his ERA at since June? Also it would be nice if you could try having a debate without smartass comments.

And what do you suppose happens to the bullpen when a guy like Rusch is forced to start a game because the scheduled starter can't go? Now you've got starter that's even more likely to leave the game early, but one fewer BP arm available to deal with the added stress. what in the world does that have to do with the argument at hand? i know rusch is/was a terrible pitcher. i don't know what you're getting at with that post. I thought the point was rather obvious. When a guy can't make a start, typically the guy that's forced to replace him is some blah swingman like Rusch. The result is added stress on the bullpen when the guy gets roughed up early, or simply doesn't have the stamina to go deep into the game. We saw this happen again and again and again last year with the parade of replacement starters the Cubs were forced to roll out. You said it yourself -- the Cubs' pen was the most overworked in the NL. That's because they didn't have anyone (besides Zambrano) to eat innings and save the bullpen. Marquis does that. Typically the guy replacing the injured starter is a minor leaguer, most teams dont usually have a swingman like the Cubs last year.

LOL. 30th in the NL in IP; 55th in MLB in IP. Both figures would put him as a fringe #2, top #3 innings eater. A few NL notables behind him: Smoltz, Zito, Sheets, Odalis Perez, Chris Young. I'd suggest you retreat back to the trend mullarkey. He's talking about average innings per start. Zito is the only guy who is averaging fewer innings per start, and that's because he's been terrible this year. There is something to be said for health, but that wasn't the gist of his post. Chris Young, IIRC, has issues with his hands/fingers numbing. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c194/vh2k6/ipperstart-1.gif I'm sure he wants to twist the argument to focus just on average innings per start, but that doesn't make it appropriate. Look each team has ~1500 innings that have to be pitched over the course of a 162 game schedule. The only question at hand here is how big of a piece of that pie is Marquis biting off. And the answer is that Marquis has helped the Cubs more than the guys that average a few tenths of an inning more per start, but have missed multiple starts. When a guy can't take the ball, the team has to scramble to find a replacement. That takes just as much of a toll on the staff, if not more. I wouldn't go so far as to call health a skill, but showing up and taking the ball every fifth day is absolutely an important part of the "innings eater" equation we're talking about here. I know you have to leave that element out if you want to get anywhere bashing Marquis, but that doesn't make it correct. Missing 1 start here or there is nowhere near the problem as consistently not making it into and past the 6th inning. More often than not, that starter replacing the injured for a start is unknown to other teams, and often does very well, hell we all know the Cubs cant hit unknown pitchers. Also consistently taking the ball and eating innings only matters if those innings hes eating he's also not allowing near 5 runs a game. We are now reduced to arguing about Marquis IP/GS? If we used that to measure the quality of a pitcher, Matt Morris, Aaron Cook and Jon Garland would all be considered better pitchers than Carlos Zambrano. IP/GS could be a factor of numerous things, such as a manager's predisposition to let a pitcher get his way out of trouble, sheer matchups, the pitcher's spot on the lineup coming up to bat, and the quality and/or manager's confidence in the bullpen. If you look at the number of Quality Starts Marquis is 36th in the NL, which is not bad at all. Look, nobody is making an argument that Marquis is a tremendous pitcher or the anchor of the Cubs staff, but he has put in a quality year to this point. No people brought up that Marquis was signed as an "innings eater" and they say hes been doing that. Anze and Myself are arguing that he isnt doing that, as he rarely makes it into and past the 6th inning. Marquis had a good first month in a half and outside of that all of his stats are horrible plain and simple. Since the All Star Break he has a 5.71 ERA 1.53 Whip and teams are hitting almost .285 against him, thats not quality.

Release him now, get his ass out of Chicago, and take Pie, Marshall, Hill and Gallagher with him! To the cornfields now!!!!!! If we got rid of every player who had a slump we wouldn't be able to field a 25 man team. Pretty sure he was being sarcastic. Wow I thought that was pretty blatant too, guess I should have used the green font javascript:emoticon(':D') Very Happy

LOL. 30th in the NL in IP; 55th in MLB in IP. Both figures would put him as a fringe #2, top #3 innings eater. A few NL notables behind him: Smoltz, Zito, Sheets, Odalis Perez, Chris Young. I'd suggest you retreat back to the trend mullarkey. He's talking about average innings per start. Zito is the only guy who is averaging fewer innings per start, and that's because he's been terrible this year. There is something to be said for health, but that wasn't the gist of his post. Chris Young, IIRC, has issues with his hands/fingers numbing. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c194/vh2k6/ipperstart-1.gif I'm sure he wants to twist the argument to focus just on average innings per start, but that doesn't make it appropriate. Look each team has ~1500 innings that have to be pitched over the course of a 162 game schedule. The only question at hand here is how big of a piece of that pie is Marquis biting off. And the answer is that Marquis has helped the Cubs more than the guys that average a few tenths of an inning more per start, but have missed multiple starts. When a guy can't take the ball, the team has to scramble to find a replacement. That takes just as much of a toll on the staff, if not more. I wouldn't go so far as to call health a skill, but showing up and taking the ball every fifth day is absolutely an important part of the "innings eater" equation we're talking about here. I know you have to leave that element out if you want to get anywhere bashing Marquis, but that doesn't make it correct. Missing 1 start here or there is nowhere near the problem as consistently not making it into and past the 6th inning. More often than not, that starter replacing the injured for a start is unknown to other teams, and often does very well, hell we all know the Cubs cant hit unknown pitchers. Also consistently taking the ball and eating innings only matters if those innings hes eating he's also not allowing near 5 runs a game.

It's not working. Looks like we'll need the commercial-grade image. Probably not working because while you may not like the wording of the original post, you can't argue the validity of the arguement no matter how many goofy pictures you put up. Yeah, we can. Everybody is arguing how valid your so-called "point" is. Marshall is still a fantastic fifth starter at this point. Potential playoff teams, their fifth starter, and his ERA: AL: Red Sox - Julian Tavarez, 5.20 Yankees - Hughes, 4.64 (was Igawa, 6.79) Indians - Aaron Laffey, 5.73 (Cliff Lee, 6.38) Tigers - Andrew Miller, 4.42 (DL) Angels - Bartolo Colon, 6.72 (DL) Mariners - (for both fourth and fifth starters, pick two of Jeff Weaver, 6.20; Horacio Ramirez, 7.12; Cha Seung Baek, 5.74; Ryan Feieraband, 8.47) NL: Mets - Mike Pelfrey, 5.92 Braves - Jo Jo Reyes, 8.72 Phillies - JD Durbin, 4.12 (just four starts) Brewers - Claudio Vargas, 4.97 Diamondbacks - Yusmeiro Petit (just removed for Kim, 4.93) Padres - Clay Hensley, 6.18 Rockies - Jason Hirsch, 4.81 Dodgers - Matt Tomko, 5.49 I tried to avoid injury cases as best I can and go with the guys who would be predicted to be the #5 starters near the beginning of the season, but in cases like Philly and Atlanta, injuries and trades have made it pretty hard to ignore all of them. Either way, Marshall and his 4.17 ERA more than stand out in the group. I'm tired of putting out the numbers now, so I'll come back with some Pie stuff later. I gave up on the Marshall arguement a while back. He is OK for a 5th starter as long as you have 4 innings worth of bullpen help. Also, people who think Im a Fontenot mark are wrong. I like the guy, I like the name, and right now, hes hitting better than Pie, which is odd considering how Fontenot is a 28 year old throw in in the Sammy trade whos never been on the radar as a top prospect and Pie is supposed to be the Cubs Jose Reyes or Jimmy Rollins. If he can prove me wrong, theres nothing that would make me happier than to eat my words. Wrong, Fontenot was a 1st round draft pick by the Orioles, so its safe to say he was on somebodys radar as a top prospect.

LOL. 30th in the NL in IP; 55th in MLB in IP. Both figures would put him as a fringe #2, top #3 innings eater. A few NL notables behind him: Smoltz, Zito, Sheets, Odalis Perez, Chris Young. I'd suggest you retreat back to the trend mullarkey. He's talking about average innings per start. Zito is the only guy who is averaging fewer innings per start, and that's because he's been terrible this year. There is something to be said for health, but that wasn't the gist of his post. Chris Young, IIRC, has issues with his hands/fingers numbing. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c194/vh2k6/ipperstart-1.gif Thanks Anze, I thought I was writing in Japanese since a few people were having troubles understanding.

Exactly so send down Fontenot now damnit! Fontenot does his job as a backup. Pie was supposed to lead to Cubs to glory. Maybe he will on day, but not yet. Theres no purpose to sending Fontnot down. He'll do there what hes doing here. As for Pie, he can either stay in the Majors as a backup/pinch runner and waste his talent and loose confidence or he can play out the AAA season as a top player in the league, and come back up in September as a back up, play some winter ball, and see what happens out of Spring Training. Having an OPS under .600 is not doing your job, and Fontenot starts alot. Pie is 22 years old and there are 19 more days left till Sept, no reason to send him down. Pie has made an adjustment at every level hes been in after struggling. Hes not the problem on this team. If Kendall and Jones continue hitting the way they have been, and Aram and Soriano can come back swinging the bats this offense might be able to score some runs. Right now there are no better options than Felix Pie so you might as well play him and see if he can make an adjustment, and even if he doesnt, its way to damn early to call him a bust.

90 wins? At this point Im hoping we can reach 75

Exactly so send down Fontenot now damnit!

Release him now, get his ass out of Chicago, and take Pie, Marshall, Hill and Gallagher with him! To the cornfields now!!!!!!

can we send a certain 2nd baseman with him? .208/.303/.260(!) since the break. ouch. Yea those are beautiful stats huh, but Fontenot is doing exactly what he was brought here to do if you ask LLF. I didnt know the Cubs brought players to Chicago to suck, but I guess it would explain the last 100 years.

Jake Fox for Pie Pignietello for Marshall Gallagher to the rotation. Yeah, Gallagher looked great last night. which tells you nothing about how he would be a starter

I wouldnt say hes stunk. Hes been what we thought hed be, a decent pinch hitter/spot starter. Did anyone really think hed keep up the .400 avg. the whole season. No. He was never slated to be a star. He was`supposed to be a David Eckstine, and thats what he is so far. Pie, on the other hand was supposed to be Jose Reyes, or even a Jimmy Rollins. Granted, hes only 22, and hopefully he will be, but as of now, his only use to the big league team is as a pinch runner, and thats not how you want to use your numbe 1 prospect, and hes better off in AAA. Hes stunk since his first 70 ab's plain and simple, he has an OPS under .600 since.

3k's is pushing his season high isnt it?javascript:emoticon(':D') Very Happy

What about that other guys numbers, can you afford those numbers? Theriots satayed in th high270s/low 280s. not bad Derosa fluctuates between the high/mid 280s. not bad Jones has jumoped from the low 220s to the high 260s since the AS break. Kendalls hitting .303 since joining the Cubs. Ill take it. Thats pretty affordable. Lees plumeting a bit, and he does need to step up with RISP though. Hes basically in the same position as A Ram was last season, as the star of the team, but he cant get the jon done. You didnt list the guy whos stats I listed

What about that other guys numbers, can you afford those numbers?

can we send a certain 2nd baseman with him?

.218, 2 HR. Stats don lie. Hes not ready for the majors. Hopefully he can prove me wrong. .208 .303 obp .260slg .563 OPS take a guess whos numbers those are since the All Star Break?

.218, 2 HR. Stats don lie. Hes not ready for the majors. Hopefully he can prove me wrong. So you choose to use stats when talking about Pie, so why dont you use those stats for Marshall to. Find me 3 better number 5 starters this year.

Marshalls inconsistent man come on

no

good throw today jason, but the throw is supposed to go to the SS/2nd baseman, not the CF like it usually does.