that's not the point of this conversation at all. The point is that on a large scale, home runs are better, like with a club that hits over 300 of them. My argument was that, and I'm just using these numbers as an example: a team with 175 home runs and speed is better than a 225 home run team with little speed/baserunning ability. which team makes less outs, on the average? i will take a slow guy who's good at not making outs at the plate over a fast guy who makes a lot of outs, but can score from first on a double. the fast guy will use his speed far less than the slow guy will use his ability to not make an out. is that clear enough for you? because that's what OBP measures, the ability to NOT make an out, which the single most important factor in scoring runs. you can have all the speed and "fundamental" players in the world--if they're bad at not making outs, then they've missed the absolute point of real fundamental hitting. people think so hard and rigidly traditional about baseball and how to win it, that they miss the thing staring them in the face. the only thing more important than OBP is the effetciveness of starting pitching. speed is far, far down the list. is it good to have guys with speed? of course, but only if they possess the ability to get on base first and foremost.