17 Seconds

Again, it would be great to fill the SS hole, but who, how and where? It's not a luxury to have another good baseball player on the team, which Roberts is. The way I see it, Derosa is always a possibility to fall back into his pre-Texas numbers, which are not good. Roberts is a much better bet to be a real good player, thus making the hole from Theriot's lack of production less of a burden. Renteria over Theriot would have been a much bigger upgrade than Roberts over Derosa. Ok? And what does that have to do with today? Renteria is not available. Roberts likely is. Do you not improve the team because you can't improve it as good as you could have 5 months ago? That makes no sense. Huh? Aren't we discussing ways Hendry could have made this team better in the offseason? Renteria was available after the season was over, when it was clear we needed a shortstop. No, we're talking about ways that Hendry can make the team better today. Right now, the only options seem to be a Roberts trade or to go into the season with the current team. Renteria isn't an option, and it doesn't look like any other quality SS's are either. Given those limitations, does making the Roberts trade make the team better than standing pat and playing with the current team? Exactly. If we're talking about how he could have made the team better in the offseason, there's a lot bigger fish to fry than Renteria. Arod and Andruw were both available for cash. Cabrera was available in a trade. Haren, Bedard, Santana were available. Granted those most of those weren't likely, but neither was a Renteria trade considering it was done like 2 days after the Series. That's a poor comparison. What does Renteria being traded 2 days after the season have anything to do with how likely it was to get him. We had just as good of a chance as the Tigers to get him. I'd like to think that Hendry is aware of how the business works. Anyways, we didn't have a realistic shot at Arod, Andruw for 2/36 is not appealing at all (and we couldn't afford it anyways), we didn't have what it took to get Cabrera (and we don't have a position for him anyways), Santana wouldn't accept a trade to the Cubs (plus we couldn't extend him), and Haren/Bedard got more in trade than we could realistically offer. Renteria was very realistic and was had for relatively cheap.

Again, it would be great to fill the SS hole, but who, how and where? It's not a luxury to have another good baseball player on the team, which Roberts is. The way I see it, Derosa is always a possibility to fall back into his pre-Texas numbers, which are not good. Roberts is a much better bet to be a real good player, thus making the hole from Theriot's lack of production less of a burden. Renteria over Theriot would have been a much bigger upgrade than Roberts over Derosa. Ok? And what does that have to do with today? Renteria is not available. Roberts likely is. Do you not improve the team because you can't improve it as good as you could have 5 months ago? That makes no sense. Huh? Aren't we discussing ways Hendry could have made this team better in the offseason? Renteria was available after the season was over, when it was clear we needed a shortstop. No, we're talking about ways that Hendry can make the team better today. Right now, the only options seem to be a Roberts trade or to go into the season with the current team. Renteria isn't an option, and it doesn't look like any other quality SS's are either. Given those limitations, does making the Roberts trade make the team better than standing pat and playing with the current team? Read my above post. If I had the choice of either getting Roberts right now (for a package that we can expect based on what we've heard), or stand pat and save our guys for later....... then yes, I definitely stand pat. We're going to need ugprades at the deadline.

And just because shortstops might not be avilable right now (which again, I think is probably untrue), that doesn't mean they won't be available at the deadline. I'm afraid that Hendry will overpay for Roberts, leaving him no no decent pieces to use for trades later on. What happens when July rolls around and Theriot is still not getting it done? Or the back of the rotation is a mess? Or we need bullpen help? Or we have big injury problems? Those are all very realistic possibilities and we'll have very little to offer in trades because Hendry will have used it all to fill a position that is already full. Every team has a certain limited amount of resources. It doesn't make any sense to me to use a good chunk of them on something that is not a big need. I'm just saying, if we get Roberts, and then July rolls around and we need upgrading somewhere else but don't have the resources, don't complain.

Again, it would be great to fill the SS hole, but who, how and where? It's not a luxury to have another good baseball player on the team, which Roberts is. The way I see it, Derosa is always a possibility to fall back into his pre-Texas numbers, which are not good. Roberts is a much better bet to be a real good player, thus making the hole from Theriot's lack of production less of a burden. Renteria over Theriot would have been a much bigger upgrade than Roberts over Derosa. Ok? And what does that have to do with today? Renteria is not available. Roberts likely is. Do you not improve the team because you can't improve it as good as you could have 5 months ago? That makes no sense. Huh? Aren't we discussing ways Hendry could have made this team better in the offseason? Renteria was available after the season was over, when it was clear we needed a shortstop.

Again, it would be great to fill the SS hole, but who, how and where? It's not a luxury to have another good baseball player on the team, which Roberts is. The way I see it, Derosa is always a possibility to fall back into his pre-Texas numbers, which are not good. Roberts is a much better bet to be a real good player, thus making the hole from Theriot's lack of production less of a burden. Renteria over Theriot would have been a much bigger upgrade than Roberts over Derosa.

Oh my god, he's an all-star! We have to get him! Mark Loretta, David Eckstein, and Mark Redman are all-stars too. Yeah and none of those guys would be considered a elite player for his position. Utley is the only player among 2nd basemen that has more total win shares than roberts in the past three years. Roberts is a elite player for 2B. I'm not saying he's not a good player, I'm just sick of people using the term "all-star" to qualify him as a good player. Read my above post. Anyways, Roberts wouldn't be in my top 3 choices for 2B's in all of baseball next season. I'd like to hear that list and B.J. Upton doesn't count since he's playing CF Well, I'd certainly take Cano and Utley over him. I'd probably take Phillips over him too. You could make arguments for other guys as well.

Roberts is clearly available though, whereas there aren't any SS improvements over Theriot who are known to be on the market. We like to talk about Peralta and Greene, but there have been no indications that their teams want to trade them. The Tigers got Renteria for likely less than what it will take to get Roberts. Anyways, we don't know who else is on the market. It's Hendry's job to find out. Nobody had any idea Swisher was on the market either. There are always guys available.

Oh my god, he's an all-star! We have to get him! Mark Loretta, David Eckstein, and Mark Redman are all-stars too. Yeah and none of those guys would be considered a elite player for his position. Utley is the only player among 2nd basemen that has more total win shares than roberts in the past three years. Roberts is a elite player for 2B. I'm not saying he's not a good player, I'm just sick of people using the term "all-star" to qualify him as a good player. Read my above post. Anyways, Roberts wouldn't be in my top 3 choices for 2B's in all of baseball next season.

Oh my god, he's an all-star! We have to get him! Mark Loretta, David Eckstein, and Mark Redman are all-stars too. These names, and names like them, are always brought out to argue "all-star" status, and it's fair, but Roberts is a legitimate All-Star. Bold prediction: if Roberts is traded to the Cubs, he will back up Chase Utley at the 2008 All-Star game. Legitimately. I find that using the "he's an all-star" claim only weakens a person's argument for acquiring Roberts. If he's really as great as someone says he is, then they shouldn't have a problem coming up with enough reasons to prove that without saying "he's an all-star!". It reminds me of the way Theriot supporters talk.

Roberts' career OBP is only .14 higher than Soriano's

Oh my god, he's an all-star! We have to get him! Mark Loretta, David Eckstein, and Mark Redman are all-stars too.

This is what I mean about people thinking that increasingly outrageous deals are "decent." RynoHawk, I do not understand your post. Jay Payton is due $5 million in 2008, and at this point in his career he's like a .740 OPS guy against lefties and a .690 guy overall probably. He is no more of a fallback option than Sam Fuld or Eric Patterson, and he's probably worse than Angel Pagan and definitely worse than Craig Monroe. Plus, all he does is bitch about lack of playing time. So you're saying it's okay to trade our top pitching prospect, our 2nd best position player prospect, an outfielder in Murton who I think could only be a step away from becoming a Conor Jackson type hitter, and a shortstop who's fairly high risk/high reward, for a pure pricey salary dump and 2 years of Brian Roberts? Are we trading more than the Red Sox did for Josh Beckett yet? Yeesh. I'm sorry. I grow increasingly baffled by the reasoning that goes on in this topic. Soon enough we'll be rationalizing how trading Soto, Hill, Marmol, Pie, Gallagher, Murton, Cedeno, Wuertz, and DeRosa for Roberts, Payton, and Danys Baez is a fair deal. Here's how it works. People hear about the Cubs being interested in Roberts, and they get excited. They hear a few rumored packages and decide in their heads what is a realistic offer and what they'd be willing to give up. They want to believe that it will happen. Then someone posts a link of the latest rumored offer, which is a bigger package than the previous one. They don't like it at first, but then say "ah what the hell, it's only a little bit more, and I've got my heart set on Roberts." This goes on and on as the deal slowly gets pricier and pricier until it looks nothing like the original one. Then it's "well, screw it. we've spent all this time on it, might as well cave and get it done." The biggest problem with this mindset is that it appears Jim Hendry has it as well.

Bigbird is a huge tool. See, here's what he does, and this is all under the assumption that he actually does have a guy he gets "information" from, (which I think definately could be BS, I'll get into that in a second). His guy tells him his opinion on what he thinks might happen and what the Orioles should do, and then bigbird spews the same stuff out. I'd say the vast majority of the stuff he passes off as "inside info" is just his opinion and speculation. Anyways, I think it's very possible he doesn't even have a "guy", and that he just piggybacks onto Peace/Belkast's stuff. The other day I was browsing that board after he claimed a deal of Gallagher/Murton/Veal/Cedeno was on the table (sure it was, bigbird), and he mentioned that he confirmed with Peace and he had heard the same thing. In a different thread the next day, Peace posted that he hadn't heard anything about that deal. I asked bigbird why he said Peace confirmed it, when he obviously didn't. Of course I got no reply, and if you question any of the almighty "insiders" on the board, you get banned. Those guys are no more "insiders" than we are after they share the stuff they hear with us. Peace's guy is just a dude that works in the same agency as Bedard/Roberts' agent, so I can't imagine him knowing all that much about what's going on in the Orioles FO.Belkast I have no idea about, but I'd be willing to bet his guy is nothing more than a friend of a friend or something like that.

Ridiculous. If this was a witty commentary on Meph's tendency to reply to posts with one word dismissals, good job. If not, please make a point. My point? The predictions were so ludicrous that I didn't want to spend 10 minutes explaing how bad they were. I now realize that the post was a joke and he wasn't serious.

That would be a terrible deal, and the type of trade that would keep Hendry from ever getting a fair deal again.

Your other ones were poor as well.

Mets Phillies Braves Padres Cubs Dodgers Dbags Rockies Brewers who cares after that

Why? They'll have an elite offense. They essentially signed a quality #2 starter and have an elite closer. Lidge's 19/27 certainly didn't look "elite" last season. Brad Lidge and Philadelphia sounds like a potential disaster.

Ridiculous.

it is the end of the week :hello: hmmm...maybe the deal gets done today? I can already hear the wheels turning over at the OH.

Link?

How do you figure they aren't a favorite? I'm not particularly stoked about this team's chances of doing anything serious in the playoffs, but I see no reason to think the brewers have done anything to get better than us. Their defense was brutal last year. Their defensive efficiency was .8 standard deviations below average. The Cubs were almost 1.5 standard deviations above average. They've made a difference just by adding Cameron, moving Braun to the outfield, and moving Hall to the infield. Yeah, I definately don't buy the fact that since they upgraded their defense a little bit that they're the favorites. It's going to be close I'm sure, but to say "we're not a playoff team in this division" is a little silly.

I was wondering the same thing. As was I. The Cubs had talked in general terms of what would be available. The other teams knew which players were (and are) available, but talks, as I know of them, never got down to concrete offers that both teams could accept or refuse. In other words, MacPhail knows, the Cubs are probably willing to trade Marshall, Gallagher, Murton (the Cubs are trying hard to trade him) and maybe Cedeno. MacPhail no doubt said, "That's nice, but we'd like to see something with Pie, Colvin and/or Hill." That's how these things work. So the Cubs had and have enough (as they see it) on the table, as Crane put it, for other teams to choose from. Bruce, let me ask you something. If you had to guess right now, would you say we make a "significant" move before opening day? By significant I mean not something like Marlon Byrd or any other platoon partner outfielder. I'm thinking more along the lines of a Roberts type player, or possible a starting pitcher. It's just weird that Hendry has continued to say that he wants to make a couple more moves and that he's not done yet, but here we are well into February and nothing has happened since the Lieber signing.

How do you figure they aren't a favorite? I'm not particularly stoked about this team's chances of doing anything serious in the playoffs, but I see no reason to think the brewers have done anything to get better than us.