17 Seconds

I don't want to open up the "clutchiness" argument again, but isn't it more likely that he sees pitches that he is less comfortable with in RBI positions rather than developing some sort of mental block with runners on? It has been widely discussed that as a dead fastball hitter, keeping him in the leadoff spot works because that is precisely where he would see the most of those pitches. With people on base, and very little protection behind him, he sees pitches that he is generally less able to handle. I don't buy that it has anything to do with his psychological fortitude in clutch situations. That all sounds like the same thing to me. It doesn't really matter why he doesn't hit well in those situations anyways.

Trust me, I hate the Soriano contract and I can't stand the fact that he has to leadoff to produce, but seeing Soriano go .265/.315/.500 with 100 rbi's wouldn't make me feel any better about it. It would make me feel worse.

Soriano's numbers do not inherently drop just by not leading off. Soriano's numbers do not inherently drop just by not leading off. Don't even bother. He's 100% convinced that it's fact. The fact that Soriano is not a good hitter in terms of clutch statistics IS fact. Soriano is a poor hitter with runners on on. Soriano is even more of a poor hitter with runners in scoring position. So, where would he get by far the largest amount of these types of at-bats (in which he struggles so much). Leading off? Nope. Middle of the order? Absolutely. I seriously don't know why this is so hard to understand. It has nothing to do with the 2004 and 2005 seasons (although those are good indicators of a problem as well). It has everything to do with the fact that Soriano is a poor hitter with guys on base. I feel like you guys are completely ignoring logic because you can't fathom the fact that we gave ridiculous contract to a batter that can't perform where he's logically be most valuable. Whether we like it or not, Soriano is paid for and is on this team. Forcing him into being something he's not just to get a few extra RBI's (while taking a hit to all of his other stats) just because you're too stubborn to realize what kind of hitter he is sounds silly to me.

I love how that BP article on Soriano completely neglets to acknowledge the concept of Soriano's numbers dropping while not leading off. Did wrigley23 write that article or something?

Wait, TBS is carrying games that don't involve the Braves this season?

I just don't want Theriot near the top. Me neither.

Link?

With what we have right now, I think this is probably the best lineup. Soriano Derosa Lee Ramirez Fukudome Soto Pie Theriot I don't really take too much stock in the l-r-l-r stuff. That said, I don't really like our lineup that much. We don't really have a great choice for the 2 hole without putting Fukudome there, and the back end up the lineup look really week. I still think the lineup would have looked 10x better with Renteria. Soriano Renteria Lee Ramirez Fukudome Derosa Soto Pie I think that lineup looks pretty good.

The only problem I have with Fukudome batting 2nd is that we won't really have a number 5 hitter. I like Derosa but I don't really think he's an adequate number 5 hitter. Man, this lineup would have looked so much better if we would have gone after Renteria.

Orel is good.

You're right.

Seriously, are you joking? Grasping for straws? How am I grasping for straws? Almost everyone else disagrees with you. Are facts "grasping for straws"? That sounds ridiculous to me. Fighting unfairly? Are you joking? You blatantly lie repeatedly, I call it out, and that means I'm "fighting unfairly"? Where do you come up with this stuff? And the "I have kids and work for a living" stuff is nonsense as well. What does that have to do with anything? Does that make it okay to lie? Does that make it okay to repeatedly say things and then fail to back it up? You guarantee it? Okay, then what sort of compensation are you going to offer me if that doesn't come true? If you can't somehow compensate me, then you're making a prediction and not a guarantee. I seriously think you need to listen to that interview again, because Lou never said that. If he did, why don't you listen again and type word for word what he said, so we can judge it ourselves? Oh, because "you have kids and work for a living", so you don't have time. Right. I'd say there's about a 50/50 chance Soriano would be moved down if they ended up getting Roberts, and I think the odds are only that good because of Soriano's leg problems. If I had to bet, I'd still say that Roberts would bat second and Soriano leadoff. However, I'm reasonable enough to know that I can't make some sort of ridiculous guarantee as if I know for sure, because none of us know that. I also know that I won't lie about what Lou said just to make my point seem more valid. How did I speak for a moderator? All I did was remind you to what HE said. As for disagreeing with that I've said, then fine. The thing is, you never make counter arguments. You act like you can't hear anything and then jump to other statements instead of carrying on a discussion, all the while claiming it's because you "don't have time", which we all know is just an excuse, since you clearly have enough time to post repeatedly. These are a few of the reasons why most of this board doesn't take you seriously and either a)make fun of you, or b)ignore you. As for me, I think it's time for letter B. As others have said in the past week, congratulations for being the first person that has ever made me feel inclinced to use the ignore feature. I'm sure I won't be the last. Have a nice life. I have to admit your responses are a bit hostile. Back it up a notch and just have a healthy discussion. No reason to get upset about it. That's the whole point. It's impossible to have a healthy discussion with him because he doesn't listen to or acknowledge other people's statements.

You're on ignore.

I can't figure out why he doesn't understand that whatever is best for Soriano's performance is also best for the team. Guess what? Soriano is on the team.

Seriously, are you joking? Grasping for straws? How am I grasping for straws? Almost everyone else disagrees with you. Are facts "grasping for straws"? That sounds ridiculous to me. Fighting unfairly? Are you joking? You blatantly lie repeatedly, I call it out, and that means I'm "fighting unfairly"? Where do you come up with this stuff? And the "I have kids and work for a living" stuff is nonsense as well. What does that have to do with anything? Does that make it okay to lie? Does that make it okay to repeatedly say things and then fail to back it up? You guarantee it? Okay, then what sort of compensation are you going to offer me if that doesn't come true? If you can't somehow compensate me, then you're making a prediction and not a guarantee. I seriously think you need to listen to that interview again, because Lou never said that. If he did, why don't you listen again and type word for word what he said, so we can judge it ourselves? Oh, because "you have kids and work for a living", so you don't have time. Right. I'd say there's about a 50/50 chance Soriano would be moved down if they ended up getting Roberts, and I think the odds are only that good because of Soriano's leg problems. If I had to bet, I'd still say that Roberts would bat second and Soriano leadoff. However, I'm reasonable enough to know that I can't make some sort of ridiculous guarantee as if I know for sure, because none of us know that. I also know that I won't lie about what Lou said just to make my point seem more valid. How did I speak for a moderator? All I did was remind you to what HE said. As for disagreeing with that I've said, then fine. The thing is, you never make counter arguments. You act like you can't hear anything and then jump to other statements instead of carrying on a discussion, all the while claiming it's because you "don't have time", which we all know is just an excuse, since you clearly have enough time to post repeatedly. These are a few of the reasons why most of this board doesn't take you seriously and either a)make fun of you, or b)ignore you. As for me, I think it's time for letter B. As others have said in the past week, congratulations for being the first person that has ever made me feel inclinced to use the ignore feature. I'm sure I won't be the last. Have a nice life.

You're using Lou as a crutch to make it seem like your opinions are more valid. "Oh, well if Lou thinks it's a good idea, then it obviously is! He knows more than any of us!" is basically what you're trying to do. Because you continue to flat out lie. You tried ignoring it until I asked you for the third time, when you finally had to acknowledge it. Lou never said that, and other people have heard the same thing that I did. When you lie about something and then refuse to admit it when you're caught, it tends to aggravate people. Not to mention the whole refusing to acknowledge other points thing as well. The moderator already wanred you about this and you coninute to do it. When we respond to you, we make counter arguments about claims you made. When you respond to us, you say the same things over and over and over again, while refusing to acknowledge the points we made. It's like arguing with a little kid: "LALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING. I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALA".

Are you kidding me?

Ok, I didn't read most of this post because I'm sick of your nonsense and refusal to acknowledge facts, but I saw the bolded part because someone else highlighted it and responded to it. Why do you continue to lie even though I've called you out on it multiple times? I've heard the interview you're referring to and Lou never said that, so stop saying he did. What he said was the same thing he's been saying all along: that he's consider moving Soriano down if they made a trade. Please stop making things up. I'm not sure why you keep bringing up Lou anyways.

The Cubs don't need a second baseman.

ALFONSO SORIANO DOES NOT HIT WELL IN THE MIDDLE OF THE LINEUP. ALFONSO SORIANO DOES NOT HIT WELL WITH RUNNERS ON. ALFONSO SORIANO DOES NOT HIT WELL WITH RUNNERS IN SCORING POSITION. Seriously, the mod already warned you a bout thise "I refuse to acknowledge others points" nonsense. It has nothing to do with babying Soriano or making him feel comfortable, it about making him perform best. Like badnews said, an .890 ops hitter is always better than an .810 ops hitter, no matter where in the lineup they're hitting. This overvaluing of the leadoff spot is ridiculous and has to stop. Alfonso Soriano should have never been signed by the Cubs. It was a makeup signing for not making an honest run at Beltran or Vlad years earlier. Might as well make the best of his signing, but the points you made in all caps underline why he is such an overrated POS. $18 million for a guy who can't handle the pressure of batting with runners on base? Great decision, Jim. I agree with everything you said. I think it was a terrible contract. That doesn't mean we have to make it worse by forcing him into being something he's not and watch his performance suffer.

Why? When people were supporting going after Roberts, their main defense to the "we already have a second baseman" arugment was about how Roberts is a leadoff hitter and Derosa isn't. Fine. I don't agree with it, but fine. But now we're discussing other second baseman that don't leadoff, just because the Roberts trade seems unlikely. What the hell is going on? Why don't we focus on upgrading positions that actually need it?

ALFONSO SORIANO DOES NOT HIT WELL IN THE MIDDLE OF THE LINEUP. ALFONSO SORIANO DOES NOT HIT WELL WITH RUNNERS ON. ALFONSO SORIANO DOES NOT HIT WELL WITH RUNNERS IN SCORING POSITION. Seriously, the mod already warned you a bout thise "I refuse to acknowledge others points" nonsense. It has nothing to do with babying Soriano or making him feel comfortable, it about making him perform best. Like badnews said, an .890 ops hitter is always better than an .810 ops hitter, no matter where in the lineup they're hitting. This overvaluing of the leadoff spot is ridiculous and has to stop.

That article certainly sounds derogatory towards people that take a lot of stock in numbers, or as Bruce calls them, "pencil pushers".

He's not a professional poster, remember? He doesn't have time to "look up stats" and "pretty up posts" by using quotes. He does, however, have time to make multiple posts saying the same things over and over again.

It's ridiculous. Number 2 is probably the worst place Soriano could at. I still haven't gotten an explanation as to why Roberts can't utilize all his assets in the number 2 spot also. Oh, because "he's a LEADOFF hitter, that's why! What good is a LEADOFF hitter that doesn't LEADOFF!? If Roberts doesn't LEADOFF, the earth will explode! I won't live in a world full of blasphemers that want to bat Roberts second!"