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first of all, i never said anything about wanting abreu. also, i'm not the one getting all defensive and copping an attitude. i'll break this down for you since most of your arguments are about stats that don't really matter runs/rbis are a terrible way to evaluate a player's worth. they are a team stat based on lineup positioning. san fransisco isn't really a pitcher's park http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?season=2008 why do you keep comparing him to those guys? those aren't the only options. it's not like we have to get one of those guys. i wouldn't want any of those guys with the price they'll come at. winn is not good defensively, so that's what we should be saying. we shouldn't be congratulating him for being slightly better than other crappy defenders. again, terrible way to evaluate a player's worth. most people here would say that clutch hitting is a myth and risp hitting is mostly luck, which is why it jumps around from year to year. winn caeer- .288 .347 .425 .771 winn career w/risp- .282 .350 .415 .765 he's actually slightly worse with risp. also, why do you say the cubs desperately need guys who hit in risp? not that it matters, but the cubs were 2nd in the NL w/risp. zing not well. soriano "can" player anywhere in the of too anyone can. it's been shown that lineup contruction is close to meaningless. there are tools where you can check that out. a couple things wrong with this a) small sample size. winn career day games- .270 .338 .386 .724 winn career night games- .296 .350 .442 .792 so he's actually significantly worse in day games. i don't know why that matters anyways. b) even last year (the year you're referencing), you just cherry picked OBP and ignored his other stats. he had a high obp, but you left out that he had a .389 slugging percentage (.446 at night). his ops was 25 points lower in day games. again, it doesn't matter, but your argument wasn't even correct. my point is that winn is not that good. we're already really tight with payroll and we want to add 8.25 million for a guy who put up the following ops numbers over his career? .704 .673 .664 .740 .821 .771 .772 .733 1.071 (231 ab) .721 .798 .790 give me a break. that's what we want out of rf, and that's what we want to waste valuable payroll on? awful. fukudome wasn't that far off of those numbers last season. like i said, i'd rather give fontenot a full time job than waste money on winn. fontenot's career ops is now .826, which is higher than winn has EVER put up in a full season. granted those numbers are a little bit skewed since fontenot has been platooned...but still, i'd be willing to bet he could match winn's high .700's OPS and wouldn't cost 8.25 million to do it. not really a surprise that you come from cubs.com

people are up in arms over non tendering a guy who is 25 years old, cheap, can start or relieve, and has kept his era under 4.5 for the past 3 years gaudin isn't great, but he has good value...... especially to a team with rich harden in their rotation Gaudin doesn't have good value. He is due to earn over $2MM for a reliever that puts up terrible numbers. Many people considered Howry to have a terrible year last year, but Howry's WHIP and K/BB ratio were actually better than Gaudin's career numbers. ] i just showed you why he has good value. he's not just a reliever. he's a reliever who can start. that gives him value. plus, even though his peripherals might look bad, he has shown for 3 straight years that he can keep his era under 4.50 while bouncing between the rotation and bullpen. that always has value, especially when we have at least one guy in our rotation who is basically guaranteed to miss a chunk of start (i already said this, you're just ignoring it and pretending he's just a reliever). you can't make a blanket statement like "his numbers are terrible" when his era has been fine for 3 straight years. plus he's only 25 and should get better

eric gagne had a 1.47 whip last season bob howry had a 1.46 whip last season 1.53 is pretty much the definition of awful

people are up in arms over non tendering a guy who is 25 years old, cheap, can start or relieve, and has kept his era under 4.5 for the past 3 years gaudin isn't great, but he has good value...... especially to a team with rich harden in their rotation

Personally, I don't think it has anything to do with ownership at all. Hendry has his budget and he knows what he can spend. I think he just needs to move Marquis, 1) to free up money and 2) complete the package for Peavy. We also know that Hendry doesn't like leaks. It certainly doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out Marquis has to go if Peavy is coming here. Besides that, Hendry has acknowledged that teams have expressed interest in Marquis. Hendry is generally recognized as a straight shooter. Towers knows that Hendry is offering up the best package he possibly can and Towers is pretty much stuck and will have to take it. At the same time, Hendry isn't going to shortchange Towers. Hendry likes to be able to negotiate with these same guys in future deals, so this will probably end up being a deal where everyone walks away about as happy as they can be given the situation. I'm still pretty convinced that a deal is already in place and Hendry just needs to find a taker for Marquis. That's pretty much how I feel there may be a player or two that are yet to be determined but the main pieces are probably set in place it is just a matter of time before Hendry makes it a go. I fully expect Marquis to be gone within the first 2 days of the winter meetings next week, and a Peavy deal short after. Marquis really isn't going to be that hard to move if we eat about 3 million of his salary and make the base around 6 million. Hendry loses some leverage if he trades for Peavy first. Granted, most of us would probably take a sack of balls for Marquis, but Hendry isn't so dumb to recognize that he can probably get more for Marquis if he doesn't necessarily "have to be traded". Another question is is trading Marquis going to be purley a salary dump, or will it have to net the other components to land Peavy. I'm pretty sure if somebody called Hendry right now and said they'd take Marquis off his hands but wouldn't give the Cubs anybody in return, Hendry would immediately do it.

The part that sucks for Meph is that even if Greene has a good season next year (and I think he will), he'll never get credit for being right because everyone will just be all "blah blah blah Cardinal pxie dust blah blah"

oh, and it's a travesty that zito isn't number one on that list

scott boras is a scumbag but he's so baller

nearly every argument that you made in this paragraph is completely irrelevant

i don't think you're aware that randy winn is not very good i'd rather let fontenot play every day then get that guy. he's not an upgrade to what we have and he's expensive for the crappy production he provides

by the way, I saw the mlbtraderumors entry about Olney saying they had a "basic framework in place" or whatever, but the olney blog he linked to had nothing about peavy. what's the deal?

damnit, i got home and saw like 6 new pages added to this thread so i thought something good was happening. of course it was just kylejrm being ridiculous again keep in mind this is the same guy who started a big argument about whether or not rick astley jumping out of a macy's day parade float constituted a rickroll

Get caught in the safety net, cliff jumper ;) heh, but can you blame me? when i posted that they were looking atrocious and it looked like they were on their way to a 4th straight loss. then boom boom boom and a 4-2 win. it's like the team has a split personality

LOL What do you have to do to be considered a good shortstop? outslugging ryan theriot would be a nice start done every year except last year. what's next? You going to tell me that Lohse is better than Zambrano because of last years ERA and win totals? no, i mean a good shortstop should never slug below ryan theriot and a good pitcher should never have an era higher than kyle lohse. hsit happens. come on man, you know perfectly well that greene is much better than you're making him out to be right now. you're saying this stuff because he's going to the cards, plain and simple. but it's not like lohse had a 4.90 era and zambrano had a higher one. 3.78 to 3.91...and zambrano's era+ was higher, btw. Greene slugged .339. .339! Guys it was just petco! oh he was worse on the road. face it, he sucks and his bad bat is only compounded by the 6.5 mil he's going to make this year. i like how you keep only mentioning last season and not the rest of his career. his career road slugging percentages .625 .543 .465 .507 .519 .317 it's pretty obvious which one was the aberration there. well, obvious to anyone who is not biased. just for fun...his road OPS by season .986 .895 .756 .863 .840 .542 YEAH THIS GUY SUCKS ASS come on, when numbers are that consistent it's obvious that petco is completely destroying his numbers. when you take into account his defense, he's not making a lot... at all. he's going to the cards though...so this dude sucks

I understand that PETCO is where fly balls go to die, but the dude's road stats were .212/.225/.317 last year. He sucked ass everywhere he went last year. Is a change of scenery going to have that much more of an effect? Maybe he won't have a VORP in the negative digits. Horray for him. he had a really bad year last year... we get it. it's unlikely to happen again.

LOL What do you have to do to be considered a good shortstop? outslugging ryan theriot would be a nice start done every year except last year. what's next? You going to tell me that Lohse is better than Zambrano because of last years ERA and win totals? no, i mean a good shortstop should never slug below ryan theriot and a good pitcher should never have an era higher than kyle lohse. hsit happens. come on man, you know perfectly well that greene is much better than you're making him out to be right now. you're saying this stuff because he's going to the cards, plain and simple.

Not if Lee hits like he did in 08

man, this team has completely fallen apart

The dudes on OH are pretty much assuming he's going to the Orioles, but I don't think so. If he were going to the O's you'd think the Pads would wait to see if he could be part of the Peavy 3-way trade.

maddenly?

this team is brutal

Where was the green font? I am worried that the Dunn-ophiliacs will be having a stroke knowing he is avaliable he was already available. he was never going to accept arbitration

or Snider never heard of him Duke Snider. Chris Snider

The problem is that holding out and asking for ridiculous deals actually worked once for MacPahil with them already, thanks to Bill freaking Bavasi. Now he probably thinks he can pull that stuff on everyone.

Churchill was talking about how the Orioles are being unreasonable with their demands for Olson, and he told me this Hahaha. Now, who knows if there is any truth to this, but I totally can believe that.