WrigleyField 22

I think it's plausible that last week's showing was doomed, but Nagy's treatment was still the most mind boggling. Like if it's just Peters or Mustipher getting beat, we can at least not act too shocked and acknowledge that, while crappy, it isn't head scratching.

Well in that mackup they ran over a bunch of the actual AP property. It's more L shaped, not a trapezoid. Basically that bottom left corner you have to exclude. But yea it's a huge property and can fit so much. The actual stadium all the way to the exterior walls should fit inside the racetrack basically. So you're saying we can build the stadium and still keep the historic Arlington Park grandstand so future generations can appreciate the history? Like make the grandstand apart of the stadium? Maybe if they want the junkiest stadium around. Or is it like protecting the colonnades and they'll just drop whatever the f they want on top of it.

Well in that mackup they ran over a bunch of the actual AP property. It's more L shaped, not a trapezoid. Basically that bottom left corner you have to exclude. But yea it's a huge property and can fit so much. The actual stadium all the way to the exterior walls should fit inside the racetrack basically. "they"? thats MY work, chummmp point taken Amateur hour at NSBB

the Arlignton site is 326 acres, there is more then enough room. for comparison, here is Foxborough including the shopping areas (outlined in red) over the Arlington site (unofficial 1000' google meter comparison): laptop resolution check Oh if there's enough space in the existing Arlington Park footprint then never mind me, I was mostly thinking of the surrounding streets. Well in that mackup they ran over a bunch of the actual AP property. It's more L shaped, not a trapezoid. Basically that bottom left corner you have to exclude. But yea it's a huge property and can fit so much. The actual stadium all the way to the exterior walls should fit inside the racetrack basically.

Basically all to save some dumb collanades that lost their historical designation anyways.

Just opining a little more there's some smoke that this could all just be a Churchill Downs, Rivers, Bears done deal partnership already and I'd guess there are tax reasons to make the Bears the owners instead of merely a tenant. The big outstanding question is to what extent AH or the state are going to be involved financially.

I really think this is all being done by the NFL. The McCaskeys don't have the money to build a new stadium and the team is being kept in Cook County, so it's not like the Bears represent a new source of revenue for Illinois or Cook County. To me, this is a deal that's being put in place to drive up the team's value, since it means any new ownership group taking over the Bears will have their own massive vacant lot to build whatever domed shrine to capitalism their hearts may desire. I think we see the team sold within two years of this purchase deal getting finalized. Could a company like Amazon for instance, partner with the McCaskey's to build a new stadium? I don't know what type of partnership you're proposing. I'm thing more of a Private Equity Venture. Bears own the land. A LLC gets set up as a joint venture to do all the development (remembering that there is a ton of space on that land to do way more than just a stadium). Bears and PE partner share some costs with the Bears set up to receive most or all of the stadium related revenue on GameDays and a smaller portion of all the rest of the revenues year round, but the development partner getting the bulk of their investment back with other various revenue streams they create. Basically its probably gonna be Neil Bluhm anyways who develops the land (already a partner with Churchill downs at Rivers) and the Bears are just the convenient development partner uniquely positioned to give him the NFL team to anchor it.

I really think this is all being done by the NFL. The McCaskeys don't have the money to build a new stadium and the team is being kept in Cook County, so it's not like the Bears represent a new source of revenue for Illinois or Cook County. To me, this is a deal that's being put in place to drive up the team's value, since it means any new ownership group taking over the Bears will have their own massive vacant lot to build whatever domed shrine to capitalism their hearts may desire. I think we see the team sold within two years of this purchase deal getting finalized. The NFL definitely has a fund for that type of thing so that helps. Figure out how Minny did US Bank stadium for only a little over 1B. If they can create something like that for a lower cost, the McCaskeys could probably figure out the rest of the financing with the help of development partners doing the rest of the property. But US Bank cost looks like a major outlier.

It could still fall apart I’m pretty sure. This gives this exclusive rights to buy the park but they still need to negotiate terms. (I haven’t read the article yet but I’m pretty sure that’s what they said the next step would be) The odds have gotten better for them to move to AH but if I had to guess it’s well less than 50% still. While there's no doubt a lot of contingencies to go through, I think this is higher than 50%. This was a pretty large bidding process. I know in the past the Bears had done option contracts on properties, but I think those were much more speculative deals. Probably the biggest risk is if the Bears are really counting on state funding that never materializes.

Deserves its own thread in light of this: https://theathletic.com/news/bears-sign-purchase-agreement-for-arlington-park-property-exclusive/QTJyEXELsaMt

Someone's trying to have fun and updated Pettine's wikipedia page...

I generally agree, though that doesn't mean he doesn't have authority. But it's very possible that he's all been guaranteed that his fate is sealed with Nagy. Maybe there's a 1% hail Mary play where he can still sever himself from Nagy by hoping an interim carries them to the playoffs, but then I imagine he's just stuck with the interim coach and not actually making his own hire. So yea the best hope is McCaskey just ending it for both early. I imagine there's quite a bit of informal or even formal interviewing he could then do on the GM front in season to hopefully not be behind on the eventual coach search too.

Well I think we know for sure none of his supposed connections is McCaskey. I feel pretty sure thats the only pulse that matters in this situation. I suppose style points may matter here though. I definitely am on the side of believing that the whole "McCakseys won't do a mid-season firing" thing isn't actually a thing. But certainly a week 4 firing isn't the same as a week 10 firing or something.

Maybe they'll figure it out with their next franchises and a part from each other. The absolute best case outlook for each of them is that their collaboration line was even more BS than we realized. How does the GM decide to keep Graham at 7M to be used like he is by his head coach? Sure seems like they forgot to collaborate on that one. There has to be a disconnect between the 2. Not only what you mentioned with Graham; for horsefeathers sake, Pace used his highest pick in 2020 on a guy who thus far has 12 targets in the first 3 games of his 2nd year, and just 5 over the last 2 games. Pace is trying to force his hand to utilize TE, loading up the roster with them, and Nagy just refuses to capitulate and just digs his heels in even deeper. Kmet is gonna be another Olsen. Just watch. Maybe not equal caliber. But I bet this is a guy who can be very productive in a system that emphasizes TE production. I mean everybody knows they are a young QBs favorite security blanket. horsefeathering get him involved. Eh as it relates to Kmet there's a good chance he's just not good. I mean, at least he's taking up snaps.

Now this is a post I can agree with. I actually think Nagy can be an acceptable coach (in a Tony Dungy situation where he's the figurehead that lets his coordinators call the shots on gameday). And I think Pace could be an acceptable GM based on talent evaluation, if he starts valuing draft picks. But they are both problems, but they aren't the only problems. There's problems everywhere. I don't think they're disasterous problems, but obviously they will continue to be problems without serious changes in philosophies. Maybe they'll figure it out with their next franchises and a part from each other. The absolute best case outlook for each of them is that their collaboration line was even more BS than we realized. How does the GM decide to keep Graham at 7M to be used like he is by his head coach? Sure seems like they forgot to collaborate on that one.

This whole the narrative around the Reid tree offenses and their complexity has always been so annoying. It seems largely based on quotes from people in the system and despite numerous examples of QBs successfully running it within their first year or two, it continues to fester. Jeez I wonder if there's any conflict for the coach running the system to set an expectation that things take 4 years to master...

Mark me down in the (apparently) unpopular camp of wanting Dalton/Foles until Nagy is gone. Nagy will ruin Fields, I have no doubts about it. Totally agree. It’s way too complicated to learn the offense coupled with a bad OL - and he’s gonna get killed. I think both of those points are a bunch of loaded BS. Seriously take a step back and look at the line running the same offense last year that wasn't very good and managed a 5.5 sack rate, middle of road. There are actually some solutions for the line issues from yesterday. Why the hell some of those solutions weren't employed, or barely at all, I don't know, but I think people are letting a horrific edge of the bell curve day from the line do a little bit too much heavy lifting for a line that played about as expected the first two games. Obviously the line personnel is a bit different than last years personnel, but not by that much.

I guess to be totally clear, what I mean is yesterday isn't just an issue of in game play calling. There is a systematic game prep issue for a game like yesterday to unfold. Now perhaps giving up in game play calling is part of the necessary response, but if only that changes, it's just not enough, if all else were still the same. Anyways there's no reason to not play Fields, even if that means Nagy has to be fired immediately. It's totally unacceptable to say your potential franchise QB has to be protected form your head coach. Now I'll be somewhat bullish and say Nagy should get a chance to be part of the solution. Because it's not rocket science. But I hope they keep with Fields. And if last week is repeated in any way Nagy should be gone ASAP. Eta - saying Nagy should be part of the response is very polite way of putting it btw. I'm still wholly ready to fire him at the latest this offseason, but I'm somewhat understanding of it not being a week 4 in the season response.

The end game is correct but the reasoning is wrong. The reasoning is that we know Nagy is the problem because Lazor was incredibly successful with the same players. Reasoning isn’t wrong. I actually don't want to get too much into the debate of it. Because I think its very likely Lazor will be a better play caller than Nagy if given the chance. But also if yesterday is any indication, that alone is very very far from sufficient.

I don't recall the Bears doing it mid-season. Could be wrong? Regardless I can't see it. They'll ride Nagy until the offseason and if it's a losing season they'll analyze whether they want Pace to continue without him. I think Pace bought a little goodwill with the Fields move. But I'm looking at this cruddy OLine, the empty chairs at TE, and the secondary (maybe they'll improve??) and I'm still seeing overall failure @ GM. They never have. But they've slowly changed the way they do a lot of things in the past couple decades. No, never immediately, but eventually. Pace's failings are probably a little more nuanced than Nagy's. I personally still view them as a package deal, but it may very well be the McCaskeys view Pace as a fixture. And maybe we can't be sure that Pace isn't banging his head thinking "Nagy you told me Graham was a key cog so I kept him instead of Leno and now you won't support the clearly weaker OL OR use your 7M TE!". Maybe not. But it's plausible? But also throws the whole ridiculous "we just have great collaboration" line out the window. So yea they're still a package deal to me, but I do like Pace's job better than Nagy, relatively speaking. But think they could definitely improve.

Yea I'm not expecting much from Lazor. His play calling run was a cake walk. But it would also apparently be a pretty low hurdle to clear over Nagy. But also I find the idea that Pace (or McCaskey even!) should be "marching down to Nagy's office" and demanding he give playcalling to Lazor very silly. Naw, just horsefeathering fire him them.

This is exactly why Nagy should be gone today. He saw his Oline getting torched and did absolutely nothing to help them. If I wasn't so sure he was merely incompetent, I would think it was an intentional sabotage job. Lack of adjustment, sure. But I also don't think he should have needed to see that first knowing what he knew about this line and the Browns D. Sounds like maybe Peters was worse from where he had been, but the interior line had struggles as well before. There is a fine line between a terrible OL and a bad one that just needs scheme help. I felt fairly confident they were the latter before. Not sure I'll rewatch any snaps, but if that 21/30 stat is true, I'm not necessarily moved on my eval of the line v my eval of Nagy.

I saw somewhere that said it was 30 drop backs and 21 of those were 5 man protections? Wtf if true. There's some confusion around whether the issue is dumbing down the offense for Fields or whatever, but literally making sure you provide adequate protection against a very good D isn't that.

Well this certainly seems as bad as it's ever been in the calls for Nagy. But Pace can't survive this either, right? Anyways looking ahead, I could see a move no earlier than November. McCaskeys arent going to be hasty in any decision, but GB Oct 17 looks large for them. Get embarrassed there at home and that could accelerate plans. Then the defending Champs the next week. Bye week is Nov 14 week and maybe before then is an opportunity for an interim coach to have an extra week to transition.

I think the point he is trying to make is that Nagy has said, "Fields will start when he's ready and we will all know when that is". He wasn't ready last week with Dalton as an option, so why is he ready this week when Foles is the only other option? The only thing that makes sense is they think Dalton is better than Fields, but Fields is better than Foles. I mean, we know they don't want to waste anymore time on Foles, which is understandable. But a lot of us have questioned why they thought it was OK wasting time on Dalton. Are football coaches allowed to lie to the media?! It is considered uncouth.