WrigleyField 22

Aren't most former steel plant locations EPA supersites? Is this what you're referencing? I don't see it listed https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Superfund_sites_in_Illinois If it were though, what's the implication, that it's too expensive to cleanup? I can find several articles about some level of desire for the city to make development happen there now. US steel moved out in 1992. I was too young to remember what was going on in the late 90s... Like has that site ever had promising plans?

Its for sale. In any development that happens there the city probably will be involved too. It doesnt take a huge leap for the city to help negotiate the path presuming the seller is willing to part at a price that makes sense.

Coming back to the idea of staying in Chicago, anyone have any idea why the US Steel Southworks site was never offered up as a solution? 400+ acres. On the lake. Nearby 90. On LSD. Close to a CTA stop. And a area that actually could benefit from development. 2021 aside, even when they were trying to figure things out in 2000s why wasn't that a proposed solution?

I would still prefer them to play in Chicago if all things are equal but my ultimate preference is a state of the art retractable (or just enclosed) stadium with a capacity that reflects the size of Chicago (aka not the smallest capacity in the NFL like Soldier Field is) and can host the types of events that go to other cities like the Big Ten Championship game, not to mention Final Four and an occasional Super Bowl. And if that can only be done in Arlington Heights, lets do it. Watch the McCaskey's blow it and do an open-air stadium because they believe in the meatball concept of Bear Weather. Yeah, I don't care about any of that stuff. It doesn't benefit me in anyway. I have a preference that sports teams should play in dense urban areas, but football might be the exception with their short schedule. Even in cases where it doesn't impact me directly I do just think it's better. I think the Super Bowls and Final Fours are overrated. But it amazes me that San Antonio built the Alomodome for ~$300M in today's dollars, never attracted the NFL team they were after and have hosted just about as many Final Fours as anywhere else (though no SB) . And now new stadiums will cost $2B to hopefully get a couple of those SBs and Final Fours. I'd love to see some financial argument that someone could spend < $1B and get a multi-purpose convention center that gets year round business, but can scale stadium seating for mega sporting events. Maybe it's not a feasible one though, but football stadiums are just very nuts now.

I don't actually watch that stuff, but being a crazy overreactiionary, but being a boring looking white guy wearing glasses sounds like a pretty brilliant marketing move. Well done.

I don't care about Bear weather, but I have come around lately to the idea that the games should be played on real grass. So screw the retractable roof and go with AZ/LV movable field where they roll in Bears grass 8 times a year and have field turf or whatever for other events.

On second thought just put a Bass Pro Shop that can also host a Final Four at Arlington Park.

Counterpoint: I love it (I've never been, but I'm sure it's the second best Bass Pro, after Branson)

I think that's fine. A lot comes down to maintenance costs I'm sure. The Fire and some concerts aren't the Bears, but if ticket tax revenue outpaces maintenance then they can just stumble along for a while. If maintenance costs are burdensome, bust out the TNT.

I think there is a high probability that will be the best course of action. We'll see though. Maybe there is a long term play that an MLS team can be a good long term anchor tenant, but it's a big bet as the Fire aren't that today. But I'd have to think they can retrofit to the Fire's liking in that scenario without doing something entirely new.

I think it's plausible that last week's showing was doomed, but Nagy's treatment was still the most mind boggling. Like if it's just Peters or Mustipher getting beat, we can at least not act too shocked and acknowledge that, while crappy, it isn't head scratching.

Well in that mackup they ran over a bunch of the actual AP property. It's more L shaped, not a trapezoid. Basically that bottom left corner you have to exclude. But yea it's a huge property and can fit so much. The actual stadium all the way to the exterior walls should fit inside the racetrack basically. So you're saying we can build the stadium and still keep the historic Arlington Park grandstand so future generations can appreciate the history? Like make the grandstand apart of the stadium? Maybe if they want the junkiest stadium around. Or is it like protecting the colonnades and they'll just drop whatever the f they want on top of it.

Well in that mackup they ran over a bunch of the actual AP property. It's more L shaped, not a trapezoid. Basically that bottom left corner you have to exclude. But yea it's a huge property and can fit so much. The actual stadium all the way to the exterior walls should fit inside the racetrack basically. "they"? thats MY work, chummmp point taken Amateur hour at NSBB

the Arlignton site is 326 acres, there is more then enough room. for comparison, here is Foxborough including the shopping areas (outlined in red) over the Arlington site (unofficial 1000' google meter comparison): laptop resolution check Oh if there's enough space in the existing Arlington Park footprint then never mind me, I was mostly thinking of the surrounding streets. Well in that mackup they ran over a bunch of the actual AP property. It's more L shaped, not a trapezoid. Basically that bottom left corner you have to exclude. But yea it's a huge property and can fit so much. The actual stadium all the way to the exterior walls should fit inside the racetrack basically.

Basically all to save some dumb collanades that lost their historical designation anyways.

Just opining a little more there's some smoke that this could all just be a Churchill Downs, Rivers, Bears done deal partnership already and I'd guess there are tax reasons to make the Bears the owners instead of merely a tenant. The big outstanding question is to what extent AH or the state are going to be involved financially.

I really think this is all being done by the NFL. The McCaskeys don't have the money to build a new stadium and the team is being kept in Cook County, so it's not like the Bears represent a new source of revenue for Illinois or Cook County. To me, this is a deal that's being put in place to drive up the team's value, since it means any new ownership group taking over the Bears will have their own massive vacant lot to build whatever domed shrine to capitalism their hearts may desire. I think we see the team sold within two years of this purchase deal getting finalized. Could a company like Amazon for instance, partner with the McCaskey's to build a new stadium? I don't know what type of partnership you're proposing. I'm thing more of a Private Equity Venture. Bears own the land. A LLC gets set up as a joint venture to do all the development (remembering that there is a ton of space on that land to do way more than just a stadium). Bears and PE partner share some costs with the Bears set up to receive most or all of the stadium related revenue on GameDays and a smaller portion of all the rest of the revenues year round, but the development partner getting the bulk of their investment back with other various revenue streams they create. Basically its probably gonna be Neil Bluhm anyways who develops the land (already a partner with Churchill downs at Rivers) and the Bears are just the convenient development partner uniquely positioned to give him the NFL team to anchor it.

I really think this is all being done by the NFL. The McCaskeys don't have the money to build a new stadium and the team is being kept in Cook County, so it's not like the Bears represent a new source of revenue for Illinois or Cook County. To me, this is a deal that's being put in place to drive up the team's value, since it means any new ownership group taking over the Bears will have their own massive vacant lot to build whatever domed shrine to capitalism their hearts may desire. I think we see the team sold within two years of this purchase deal getting finalized. The NFL definitely has a fund for that type of thing so that helps. Figure out how Minny did US Bank stadium for only a little over 1B. If they can create something like that for a lower cost, the McCaskeys could probably figure out the rest of the financing with the help of development partners doing the rest of the property. But US Bank cost looks like a major outlier.

It could still fall apart I’m pretty sure. This gives this exclusive rights to buy the park but they still need to negotiate terms. (I haven’t read the article yet but I’m pretty sure that’s what they said the next step would be) The odds have gotten better for them to move to AH but if I had to guess it’s well less than 50% still. While there's no doubt a lot of contingencies to go through, I think this is higher than 50%. This was a pretty large bidding process. I know in the past the Bears had done option contracts on properties, but I think those were much more speculative deals. Probably the biggest risk is if the Bears are really counting on state funding that never materializes.

Deserves its own thread in light of this: https://theathletic.com/news/bears-sign-purchase-agreement-for-arlington-park-property-exclusive/QTJyEXELsaMt

Someone's trying to have fun and updated Pettine's wikipedia page...

I generally agree, though that doesn't mean he doesn't have authority. But it's very possible that he's all been guaranteed that his fate is sealed with Nagy. Maybe there's a 1% hail Mary play where he can still sever himself from Nagy by hoping an interim carries them to the playoffs, but then I imagine he's just stuck with the interim coach and not actually making his own hire. So yea the best hope is McCaskey just ending it for both early. I imagine there's quite a bit of informal or even formal interviewing he could then do on the GM front in season to hopefully not be behind on the eventual coach search too.

Well I think we know for sure none of his supposed connections is McCaskey. I feel pretty sure thats the only pulse that matters in this situation. I suppose style points may matter here though. I definitely am on the side of believing that the whole "McCakseys won't do a mid-season firing" thing isn't actually a thing. But certainly a week 4 firing isn't the same as a week 10 firing or something.

Maybe they'll figure it out with their next franchises and a part from each other. The absolute best case outlook for each of them is that their collaboration line was even more BS than we realized. How does the GM decide to keep Graham at 7M to be used like he is by his head coach? Sure seems like they forgot to collaborate on that one. There has to be a disconnect between the 2. Not only what you mentioned with Graham; for horsefeathers sake, Pace used his highest pick in 2020 on a guy who thus far has 12 targets in the first 3 games of his 2nd year, and just 5 over the last 2 games. Pace is trying to force his hand to utilize TE, loading up the roster with them, and Nagy just refuses to capitulate and just digs his heels in even deeper. Kmet is gonna be another Olsen. Just watch. Maybe not equal caliber. But I bet this is a guy who can be very productive in a system that emphasizes TE production. I mean everybody knows they are a young QBs favorite security blanket. horsefeathering get him involved. Eh as it relates to Kmet there's a good chance he's just not good. I mean, at least he's taking up snaps.

Now this is a post I can agree with. I actually think Nagy can be an acceptable coach (in a Tony Dungy situation where he's the figurehead that lets his coordinators call the shots on gameday). And I think Pace could be an acceptable GM based on talent evaluation, if he starts valuing draft picks. But they are both problems, but they aren't the only problems. There's problems everywhere. I don't think they're disasterous problems, but obviously they will continue to be problems without serious changes in philosophies. Maybe they'll figure it out with their next franchises and a part from each other. The absolute best case outlook for each of them is that their collaboration line was even more BS than we realized. How does the GM decide to keep Graham at 7M to be used like he is by his head coach? Sure seems like they forgot to collaborate on that one.