SABR Gamer

He has baseball abilities, just not real toolsy (not real fast, avg. arm, ok hands) I tend to brush hitting mechanics to the side, if he can center the ball and drive it, which Derosa does well. I don't mind them looking @ Roberts (depending on cost) as it gives the Cubs needed depth espec. as a bat off the bench and a good player who can play mult. positions. This team will suffer injuries next year and he will have value in that role. I'm telling you that a guy who personally does training lessons with Mark DeRosa told me that he lacks a lot of the "baseball ability" and makes up for it with his athletic ability, this is not my quote this is a guy who personally trains him, so I'd say that it's gotta be pretty accurate. Just FYI, let's just say Ping knows what he's talking about, too. When the Astros are consulting Ping about which prospects are legit then I will believe his opinion is more reliable than my guy.

hmm, the best way to describe the difference in DeRosa's athletic ability and other MLB players is that, DeRo is the kind of guy who could basically play any sport he wanted to at an extremely high level, a lot of MLB players are amazing baseball players but bad at other sports, DeRo may not be more naturally athletic but he's more of an athletic freak than your every day MLB player.

He has baseball abilities, just not real toolsy (not real fast, avg. arm, ok hands) I tend to brush hitting mechanics to the side, if he can center the ball and drive it, which Derosa does well. I don't mind them looking @ Roberts (depending on cost) as it gives the Cubs needed depth espec. as a bat off the bench and a good player who can play mult. positions. This team will suffer injuries next year and he will have value in that role. I'm telling you that a guy who personally does training lessons with Mark DeRosa told me that he lacks a lot of the "baseball ability" and makes up for it with his athletic ability, this is not my quote this is a guy who personally trains him, so I'd say that it's gotta be pretty accurate. Is your friend in the majors? He's not a friend, his company trains pro prospects and the Houston Astros scouts help run it. He does lessons with a few MLB players, including DeRo. I worked with him until i had surgery to repair my labrum which I am rehabbing from atm.

LF Soriano CF Pie RF Kosuke 3B Ramirez SS Theriot 2B Roberts 1B Lee C Soto might be able to push across 800 runs. I don't agree with that statement, you have to think about how drastically better that team is than last year. Last year the Cubs scored 752 runs, with Izturis, Koyie Hill, Rob Bowen, Mike Fontenot, Angel Pagan, Matt Murton, Cliff Floyd, Craig Monroe, and Theriot (playing about as consistent as Rex Grossman) all getting playing time, with a few getting considerable PT. I think Murton is good but he played pretty bad for at least the first part of his season, and Theriot is mediocre...almost at best, don't want to say for sure at best because he showed he can be solid at times. Add to that the fact that our three best players all missed extended periods of time because of injuries, and all played with lingering injuries, Ramirez and his wrist and knee, Soriano's leg, Lee still not fully over his wrist issues. If those three play healthy that alone will add more runs to our lineup. Pie could be an offensive improvement from Jones, he surely will hit for more power than Jones' pathetic 5 jacks last year. Fukudome could double to triple Floyd's power numbers and would hit for a much better average/obp as well as be faster on the base paths. Roberts' presence at the top of the lineup will create more run scoring opportunities and Soriano in the heart will also. Theriot IS better than Izturis, and lets say he plays like most expect and isn't very good then Cedeno, who has potential to be a very good offensive SS, and for sure will hit for more power than Theriot, could be given a shot, even DeRosa. Most of all, the biggest difference is that Soto will be an offensive force at catcher, a position where the Cubs used Koyie Hill, Henry Blanco, Michael Barrett, Jason Kendall, and Rob Bowen last year, a truly aweful list of people to be used as a starter. Soto will be a monstrous upgrade. Your saying all of those improvements will only lead to 48 more runs? I doubt it. That lineup has some serious run scoring ability that I believe you are under rating. With that team the lineup would be something like: Roberts -.285-.305, 10-18 HR, .370-.390 obp Theriot/DeRosa/....Cedeno? - anywhere from .260-.280, 3-12 HR (depending on the player), .330-.370 obp Lee - .290-.325, 25-35 HR, .390-.410 obp Ramirez - .290-.320, 30-40 HR, .360-.370 obp Soriano - .280-.300, 35-45 HR, .335-.345 obp Fukudome - (totally unpredictable) .280-.300, 18-25 HR, .360-.370 obp Soto - .280-.310, 18-25 HR, .360-.380 obp Pie - .230-.280, 10-14 HR, .285-.335 obp (optimistic i know) I'm sure everyone could critique my stats but they are what I think has a reasonable chance of happening. Anyway, I don't think that they would barely out perform last years offense. I mean come on, there were times when Ramirez and Lee were injured that Fontenot/Theriot/DeRosa were 3 of our 4 infielders....you gotta remember there were times when our lineup was embarrassing last year.

He has baseball abilities, just not real toolsy (not real fast, avg. arm, ok hands) I tend to brush hitting mechanics to the side, if he can center the ball and drive it, which Derosa does well. I don't mind them looking @ Roberts (depending on cost) as it gives the Cubs needed depth espec. as a bat off the bench and a good player who can play mult. positions. This team will suffer injuries next year and he will have value in that role. I'm telling you that a guy who personally does training lessons with Mark DeRosa told me that he lacks a lot of the "baseball ability" and makes up for it with his athletic ability, this is not my quote this is a guy who personally trains him, so I'd say that it's gotta be pretty accurate.

Roberts is a much better athlete than Derosa (minus strength). Even more reason to acquire him. My point was just that all DeRosa is is a pure athlete with not much baseball ability, I mean if you ever look at his swing technicalities they are not pretty.

I don't know, I like DeRosa, and I do think it's possible that he will play well again next year, but I don't think it's a given. I talked to a guy that does some private hitting lessons with DeRo, he said that DeRo is really not a very good baseball player, he's just a ridiculous athlete which helps him compensate for his lack of baseball ability. If you ask me, I'd rather have a guy who is a really good "baseball player" like Roberts than an "athlete" because the ball player is most likely going to out perform and be more consistent than the athlete.

Did you really just say that about DeRosa? If you had gained any credibilty on this board, I think you may have lost it. .371 obp, .293 ba, and he only made 6 errors all year at 2nd base, not that errors matter anyways, just from watching nearly every day I thought DeRo played 2nd base quite well. Please tell me I am mistaken and you are talking about someone else, but if your talking about DeRosa you are a moron. Edit: I read ahead, and think you were talking about Greene, in that case I agree with what you said. I was just confused why anyone would think that about DeRosa, he's truly a quality player. Damn, if you're gonna call out a poster like that...at least have some context at what is the discussion at hand. heh yeah my bad, but now I'm gonna disagree with him anyway, I am going to contradict myself, I believe that Greene would be a good addition, so I don't know where that leaves me, double negative? I need to make my mind up before I post lol. And by the way, he was not clear about who he was referring to he never names anyone in his post, so it's a legitimate mistake.

Did you really just say that about DeRosa? If you had gained any credibilty on this board, I think you may have lost it. .371 obp, .293 ba, and he only made 6 errors all year at 2nd base, not that errors matter anyways, just from watching nearly every day I thought DeRo played 2nd base quite well. Please tell me I am mistaken and you are talking about someone else, but if your talking about DeRosa you are a moron. Edit: I read ahead, and think you were talking about Greene, in that case I agree with what you said. I was just confused why anyone would think that about DeRosa, he's truly a quality player.

Ok, sorry guys but I really want to know where the Cubs are in the Prior decision? What's going on with the situation, I so badly want this guy on the Cubs next year and I'm curious too hear if they are leaning more towards signing him or if they are leaning towards the trade idea that the rumor mills have been saying. Also where is Prior in all of this, what is his stance and what's he willing to accept to stay with the Cubs. He owes it to the Cubs to stay and the Cubs need to realize that the potential upside is SOOO worth the money, PLEASE keep him Hendry, I will hate him for my entire life if he doesnt keep him and he goes on to be a HOF pitcher somewhere else, but I won't feel any regret in keeping the guy and just having it end up that he didn't work because at least we gave it a shot.

None of them make you say "boy, if only we signed that guy." eh, Hideki would look nice in our lineup

but Matsui hit enough and pretty well for his position, also, Hideki has been a very good hitter so to say that iguchi and Johjima were a success and Hideki was not, is not an accurate statement.

Dude, where do u get this stuff "The Matsuis haven't"....uhhhhh, the Matsuis were extremely productive this year, hideki has been great since he came over, and Kaz had a very good year too, thats just a stupid statement and its obvious that you just didnt look at the numbers before posting this. Kaz outhit Iguchi this year. You don' really think that Iguchi and Johjima were more productive that Hideki Matsui, do you? Come on, if your going to make bold statements don't contradict them with bad info. He said they were the exception. Reading is fundamental. For the record, your correction was incorrect. Meph was saying the Matsui's were the exception for most Japanese players coming over after their primes. Then he says that Japanese pitchers have thrived, whereas offensive players haven't. The exceptions being Ichiro, Jojima, and Iguchi. A-Ram was disputing Meph's statement that the Matsui's have not thrived. Yes, ConstableRabbit, you have it right, I was referring to the last statement CubinNY, so it looks like reading IS fundamental.

Dude, where do u get this stuff "The Matsuis haven't"....uhhhhh, the Matsuis were extremely productive this year, hideki has been great since he came over, and Kaz had a very good year too, thats just a stupid statement and its obvious that you just didnt look at the numbers before posting this. Kaz outhit Iguchi this year. You don' really think that Iguchi and Johjima were more productive that Hideki Matsui, do you? Come on, if your going to make bold statements don't contradict them with bad info.

I understand more now what your saying, but could you explain to me how D-Lee mattered more to the Cubs than Soriano and Ramirez, and how did Soriano matter more to the Cubs than Ramirez. I just don't understand how Ramirez had the least impact of the three.

Braun put up ridiculous rookie numbers, no chance he finishes that low, and no chance he should, put Troy Tulowistki should be the ROTY. In the MVP though, there is no way to justify having Lee be ahead of Soriano or Ramirez, especially Ramirez who had the best offensive season on the team, with plus defense. Soriano also had plus defense, while Derrek had a slight down year on d. Also where the hell do u get at having guys on bad teams like Wainwright and Cain ahead of Posada who had amazing numbers on a playoff team, those are just wrong. By the way, there is no way you don't have a man crush on Lee seeing who you put him in front of...Ortiz? Fielder? Carlos Pena? Miguel Cabrera? Todd Helton? Jimmy Rollins? Vlad? Stop drinking ur Cubbie koolaid and be realistic, Lee didn't have a very good year and there are probably 40+ players on ur list alone who deserve to be in front of him for MVP. Also, I'm starting to think you have Magglio on your fantasy team because there is NO WAY IN HELL he has better number than A-Rod, and to even put it more in A-Rod's favor he plays in a tougher city, and his team made the playoffs, A-Rod slugged 50 points higher, hit 26 more home runs, nearly double the ammount Maggs hit, and had 17 more RBI's. Also Peavy couldn't even get his team into the playoffs, he's probably the 3rd most valuable player in his own division. The funniest pick of all is Albert Pujols ahead of Holliday, A-Rod, and Hanley Ramirez. Holliday put up better numbers, his team went to the playoffs, the world series (I know they dont count it, but some voters will be affected by it), and had the most outstanding run I have ever seen with him being the engine that powered that run. Holliday should be NL MVP, listen this isn't last year, Pujols doesn't belong anywhere near the top. I don't mean to be rude, but its like you split the players into groups of 10-15 and picked them out of a hat for ranks....these are the worst serious MVP picks I have ever seen.....wow.

I thinks it's funny that nearly the entire "scrappy" team is white, I wonder if that is just a coincidence.

Really, FP was the only career mark I found on B-R and FP favored Riot. As far as physical defensive skills go, they're both surehanded and have about even arms. Theriot is way faster though. DeRosa has better arm than Theriot

If you look at Theriot's offensive numbers broken down, they are greatly inflated by his 2006 numbers at the end of the season vs other team's 40 man call-up pitchers, and his July this year. It is wrong to say that DeRosa has a SLIGHT edge on offense, he is a MUCH MUCH better hitter than Theriot, and it's not even close. DeRosa is a better average hitter, his average was 27 points higher, power hitter, he slugged 74 points higher, and he is more patient, posting an OBP 25 points higher. DeRosa is also a very good defensive 2nd base man. This isn't a competition, Theriot is a utility player, not a starter, DeRosa will be the starter, end of story. Also, I don't want to sound rude, but when you post don't write it as "we" conclude, it "you" not "we" that has makes that conclusion. Also you are looking at Career numbers which is unfair because DeRosa was a bench player/pinch hitter until last year. If you want a fair comparison, compare Theriot to DeRosa's numbers as a starter and DeRosa will kill Theriot. Also it matters more how a player played last year then how they played 5-6 years ago in Atlanta. It's all about what your doing for me now, and DeRosa is more productive than Theriot, he will be the starter. Also to make up for the lack of SB's, if we get Renteria that adds SB's and also Soriano will be healed from his leg injury and his SB numbers will go back up to his usual 30+ so Theriot's SB's are not a big enough plus to justify starting him over DeRosa. Finally MY LAST COMMENT, Theriot doesn't have the stamina to last a full season as he showed this year when his numbers declined rapidly at the end of the year, going from a .348 average in July, then dropping to a .276 average in August, and then hitting an abysmal .202 in September. I think Theriot can be a VERY valuable asset on the bench but I don't think he belongs in the starting lineup of a world series team and I don't want him anywhere near our starting lineup next year. To be honest, I think Cedeno has much more potential than Ryan.

Gun to the head? I'm going for the cyanide. I chose the jump-in-front-of-the-CTA-train method. Those things come into a station hella-fast. Why, in Gods name, would we want Trachsel anywhere near our 2008 roster? Didn't his suck do enough to keep him off?....Flat out terrible move if Hendry goes through with it, because not only does he suck, but we will get NOTHING for him. Lets say Hendry wants to pick up the option to trade him because he thinks Trachsel has some value (STUPID STUPID!!!). So the option is what? 4 mil? We are not gonna get the equivalent of a 4 million dollar player, not even a prospect who could eventually be a 4 million dollar player... Hendry hasn't even done anything yet and he's already mismanaging the tiny amount of money he will be given to get players with this off season. Lol if we sign A-Rod though, I'll shut the hell up, but until then I'm not gonna believe he has this much money, if any at all, to throw at a pitcher who is quite possibly one of the 10 worst players in baseball, if not THE worse....I mean I would rather have Neifi freakin Perez back (I don't want to hear Neifi's name ever again, but just trying to point out how much Trachsel blows).

But ya, if u want to have a more scientific outlook on Prior rather than the pessimistic outlook of ur average cubs fan read what mul21 and I wrote, as we both have personal experience with the topic, that should clear up a lot of doubt. If it doesn't then you truly are quite the pessimist.

Also, to add, the surgery for a rotator cuff may be easier, but it's a harder injury to come back from than a labrum tear.

Eh, your first surgery probably wasn't as well done as your second one, and it may be fact that there was no skeletal structure to attach it to, but these days a labral fix is quite simple, they just anchor it into your shoulder bone, its not as tough as it may have been when your had your. ALSO, your labrum does what you said, yes, but you dont rip the whole thing off, one of the two sides rips off and that is a much smaller structure than the rotator cuff which goes around your entire shoulder. It's not like labral repairs are rocket science, they are fairly simple now and are done with a great success rate. I think it's debatable as to which is more difficult to fix at the moment.

Aramis won't be traded at any point in is contract, he has a full no trade clause. I hope he's a Cub for life.

Pitchers tend to recover better when having TJ than they do with shoulder surgery. The shoulder is one thing you do not want to mess with if you are making a living throwing a baseball. Shoulder scopes actually have a better success rate than TJS For us laymen, what is the difference between a shoulder scope and fixing a tear in the rotator cuff? I would be interested to know how bad Prior wants to stay with the Cubs. Presumably he would not have the same type of loyalty that Wood has, but I wonder if he would take a 2 year contract similar to the one Dempster took, in order to stay. The shoulder scope in Prior's case was for a torn Labrum, which is a piece of cartilage that stabilizes your shoulder joint, the rotator cuff is the muscle that wraps around your shoulder, attaching in the front and back of your body. The rotator cuff is a much harder injury to overcome because it is a much larger part of your shoulder and it is a muscle not cartilage. Muscle's are much more sensitive and heal differently. The rotator cuff is also a much more important part of your shoulder so it's a much worse injury. If you tear your labrum, you can still throw a baseball fairly fast while your injured, as Prior showed, but you will still lose velocity. If you tear your rotator cuff, you can't throw, you would be lucky to throw at 1/2 velocity while your injured.