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1) It is absolutely mindboggling that people still use the 15 game win plateau to judge Kerry Wood, or any other pitcher for that reason. 2) Regardless, Kerry Wood should have won 15 games in 1998 and 2003 for sure. He had the poorest run support of any starting pitcher for the Cubs in 2003.

Sorry for the triple post but He throws tuesday May 2nd. if all goes well, he's up for rehab start #1 May 6th. If all goes well he's up for rehab start #2 May 11th. If all goes well he's back for the tail end of the SD series at home or the Washington Series at home.May 14th, or May 16th. this is right in line with what's been said and = a couple weeks. The two rehab starts = 10 days plus the 4 days rest from the last rehab start = a couple weeks. I don't see this as being any less optimistic, but someone correct me if I'm wrong. actually, it's not in line with what has been said. what has been said was beginning of May, mid-May if the knee surgery costs him some time, but it didn't according to the reports, so what was expected was the beginning of May. he's at 60 pitches right now. with the way he's been treated to this point, do you see the Cubs letting him throw 100 pitches by May 14-16? I don't. he'll do at least 4 rehab starts to 'build up his arm strength'. Not being a smart ass, but honestly, what reports said the knee didn't cost him any time. I thought it set him back at LEAST a week. If he's back by the White Sox series, I'll be happy, if he's back before then ecstatic. If it's AFTER the Sox series, I'll be disappointed. I don't think any of us know how many rehab starts, but I always thought it was going to be 2 for some reason.

Where do you go.

Sorry for the triple post but He throws tuesday May 2nd. if all goes well, he's up for rehab start #1 May 6th. If all goes well he's up for rehab start #2 May 11th. If all goes well he's back for the tail end of the SD series at home or the Washington Series at home.May 14th, or May 16th. this is right in line with what's been said and = a couple weeks. The two rehab starts = 10 days plus the 4 days rest from the last rehab start = a couple weeks. I don't see this as being any less optimistic, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Dude, it's CubbieRich. He doesn't like Wood, you have to take it with a grain of salt.

Yes, I'm sure that's exactly why Wood is rehabbing in Arizona instead of Chicago. :lol: :lol:

I can't say bye to Prior yet. Call it an unhealthy attachment, call it having blinders on, call it what you want. I don't want to see him getting several cy youngs with another team. It would make me incredibly sad to see both Prior and Wood gone from this team - probably would send me into a minidepression I think. He's way too young to give up on right now, plus you'd be selling him at his lowest point. A few good months aren't gonna help because he'll still be labeled as "soft" by other GM's. A few good YEARS might help, but then why would you want to trade him?

man this is a tough decision. On the surface it looks like a trade that would benefit both teams. If both stay healthy and maintain current levels of production it's win/win. I'm weak offensively and still strong pitching wise, so I'm leaning towards doing it, especially because OBP is one of the stats, not average.

I have Connor Jackson, Lance Niekro, Chase Utley (though I use him at 2b), and Chad Tracy (though I use him at 3B) I am the one with Chris Young (for clarification). I'm leading the league in almost all pitching stats, but could use the bat (as I don't have much depth offensively).

Who wins in this trade? Edit to Add: This is a 10 team rotisserie league NL only with the following categories: Wins, Saves, K's, Holds, ERA, WHIP and Runs, HR, RBI, SB, TB, OBP Chris Young (SP) San Diego 2-2, 3.41 ERA, 1.10 WHIP, 26 K's Nick Johnson (1B) Nationals .342/.450ish OBP, 6 HR, 15 RBI, 2 SB, 21 runs, 56 TB Those numbers are from memory.

We are horrible. Please Stop being so.

I'm not taking anything personally. It's clear you don't subscribe to the philosophy of objectivity. I'm not crying over your attacks of Z. Nor am I taking them personally. And If that's a personal attack you need get some tougher skin. There was no attack of any kind in that post. Merely my belief that I'm glad to know you don't want to be objective when talking about Z. Yeah, I guess this wasn't personal. It wasn't. Let it go. I was debating a player's performance and not talking about an individual poster's actions. You're the one who called me out for not being "objective" simply because we had a difference of opinion. "It" was never an issue with me. You can continue to be disingenous. But have fun talking to yourself.

I'm not taking anything personally. It's clear you don't subscribe to the philosophy of objectivity. I'm not crying over your attacks of Z. Nor am I taking them personally. And If that's a personal attack you need get some tougher skin. There was no attack of any kind in that post. Merely my belief that I'm glad to know you don't want to be objective when talking about Z. Yeah, I guess this wasn't personal. It wasn't. Let it go.

I'm not taking anything personally. It's clear you don't subscribe to the philosophy of objectivity. I'm not crying over your attacks of Z. Nor am I taking them personally. And If that's a personal attack you need get some tougher skin. There was no attack of any kind in that post. Merely my belief that I'm glad to know you don't want to be objective when talking about Z.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has. So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well... Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far. You really don't like Zambrano, do you? That's ridiculous. I love Zambrano's game but he hasn't been on it. He's walking too many batters and not getting groundball outs. Why do you have to question whether I like the guy just because I'm not afraid to criticize him? It's like saying you can't like someone and be objective at the same time. Your initial comments were about as FAR from objective as you can get. They were emotional and hyperbolic. Your clarification comments (Z not pitching up to his standards, Z losing control/being inconsistent) are fair and objective. Can't you see this? No, because my comments were obviously in relation to his previous performances. I wouldn't be nearly as upset if I didn't have a high bar for the guy. He's a much better pitcher than he's shown. I guess we'll just disagree on the definition of the words hyperbolic, exaggeration, fair and objective are. I guess we will have to but I will say that his numbers certainly aren't representative of anyone who's pitched well overall. Serena also brought up a good point about Maddux. Few people were defending him last April with his 3 QS and inflated ERA. For some reason, this is different... Nope, you still don't understand. No one minds the above statement. People had issues with the way you phrased your INITIAL criticism, not that there was criticism itself. Thats' fine. This is a messageboard, we're not all here to agree. You are free to describe him in the most glowing or PC terms if you choose (or not). Fair enough. And if you continue using inaccurate hyperbole I will continue to discuss that said hyperbole. What is or isn't accurate is subjective. Duh. Every opinion is subjective. Some are presented with an attempt towards objectivity. Good to know you don't subscribe to that philosophy though.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has. So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well... Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far. You really don't like Zambrano, do you? That's ridiculous. I love Zambrano's game but he hasn't been on it. He's walking too many batters and not getting groundball outs. Why do you have to question whether I like the guy just because I'm not afraid to criticize him? It's like saying you can't like someone and be objective at the same time. Your initial comments were about as FAR from objective as you can get. They were emotional and hyperbolic. Your clarification comments (Z not pitching up to his standards, Z losing control/being inconsistent) are fair and objective. Can't you see this? No, because my comments were obviously in relation to his previous performances. I wouldn't be nearly as upset if I didn't have a high bar for the guy. He's a much better pitcher than he's shown. I guess we'll just disagree on the definition of the words hyperbolic, exaggeration, fair and objective are. I guess we will have to but I will say that his numbers certainly aren't representative of anyone who's pitched well overall. Serena also brought up a good point about Maddux. Few people were defending him last April with his 3 QS and inflated ERA. For some reason, this is different... Nope, you still don't understand. No one minds the above statement. People had issues with the way you phrased your INITIAL criticism, not that there was criticism itself. Thats' fine. This is a messageboard, we're not all here to agree. You are free to describe him in the most glowing or PC terms if you choose (or not). Fair enough. And if you continue using inaccurate hyperbole I will continue to discuss that said hyperbole.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has. So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well... Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far. You really don't like Zambrano, do you? That's ridiculous. I love Zambrano's game but he hasn't been on it. He's walking too many batters and not getting groundball outs. Why do you have to question whether I like the guy just because I'm not afraid to criticize him? It's like saying you can't like someone and be objective at the same time. Your initial comments were about as FAR from objective as you can get. They were emotional and hyperbolic. Your clarification comments (Z not pitching up to his standards, Z losing control/being inconsistent) are fair and objective. Can't you see this? No, because my comments were obviously in relation to his previous performances. I wouldn't be nearly as upset if I didn't have a high bar for the guy. He's a much better pitcher than he's shown. I guess we'll just disagree on the definition of the words hyperbolic, exaggeration, fair and objective are. I guess we will have to but I will say that his numbers certainly aren't representative of anyone who's pitched well overall. Serena also brought up a good point about Maddux. Few people were defending him last April with his 3 QS and inflated ERA. For some reason, this is different... Nope, you still don't understand. No one minds the above statement. People had issues with the way you phrased your INITIAL criticism, not that there was criticism itself.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has. So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well... Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far. You really don't like Zambrano, do you? That's ridiculous. I love Zambrano's game but he hasn't been on it. He's walking too many batters and not getting groundball outs. Why do you have to question whether I like the guy just because I'm not afraid to criticize him? It's like saying you can't like someone and be objective at the same time. Your initial comments were about as FAR from objective as you can get. They were emotional and hyperbolic. Your clarification comments (Z not pitching up to his standards, Z losing control/being inconsistent) are fair and objective. Can't you see this? No, because my comments were obviously in relation to his previous performances. I wouldn't be nearly as upset if I didn't have a high bar for the guy. He's a much better pitcher than he's shown. I guess we'll just disagree on the definition of the words hyperbolic, exaggeration, fair and objective are.

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has. So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well... Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far. You really don't like Zambrano, do you? That's ridiculous. I love Zambrano's game but he hasn't been on it. He's walking too many batters and not getting groundball outs. Why do you have to question whether I like the guy just because I'm not afraid to criticize him? It's like saying you can't like someone and be objective at the same time. Your initial comments were about as FAR from objective as you can get. They were emotional and hyperbolic. Your clarification comments (Z not pitching up to his standards, Z losing control/being inconsistent) are fair and objective. Can't you see this?

After seeing his stats after today's performance, as a whole he hasn't been good. You're right. But I still take issue with your statement that he hasn't done anything all year to deserve praise. Because he has. So has Glendon Rusch. He pitched well in Pittsburgh and he pitched well for almost 5 innings in STL. Overall, both have not pitched well... Oh yeah, I wasn't exaggerating. If you look back at every game Zambrano has pitched this year, he has melted down (for lack of a better phrase) in at least one inning. Granted, a couple of times he was able to get out of trouble with minimal damage but giving up home runs and then walking the next two batters, arguing with himself or others, and having no general control does not equal a good year thus far. You really don't like Zambrano, do you? When I said that I was accused of riding her.

When you say "Zamnbrano(sic) has been crap all year" and "Being the ace also means you don't melt down just about every game", you're going to get called out on it, because Z hasn't been crap all year nor has he melted down just about every game. There's a very real difference between poor performance and inconsistent performance. Say Z hasn't pitched like an "ace"(which is unnecessarily arbitrary anyway, but I digress), fine, but when you exaggerate further upon that to paint him as someone who hasn't done a positive thing all year when he clearly has people are going to catch you. Yes, he has had at least one inning in every game this season where he's lost control. What you said is ALOT different from "Z has been crap all year" and "Z has MELTED down every game". The former is a fair analysis, the later is hyperbole. That's all anyone is saying.

65 freaking pitches through 6 innings. Our offense is just downright crap.

It's not the Brewers it's the pitching. We get it. You're anti-Z this year. I'm pro good pitcher. I'm not going to stand up for the guy blindly. What has he done to earn praise? Look at his numbers (not just this game but before hand). His ERA, WHIP, etc. He still has time to make adjustments but there's been little to get excited about. That's fine, but your rhetoric has been imflammatory at the least regarding Z. I'm just letting you know we get it. And it's quite exaggerated. Where have I exaggerated anything? you can't be serious? Just read everyone elses posts that give information contrary to the imflammatory claims you've made in the last two pages. I'm not gonna retype it all - TT and Hornkohl and someone else did an adequate job.

It's not the Brewers it's the pitching. We get it. You're anti-Z this year. I'm pro good pitcher. I'm not going to stand up for the guy blindly. What has he done to earn praise? Look at his numbers (not just this game but before hand). His ERA, WHIP, etc. He still has time to make adjustments but there's been little to get excited about. That's fine, but your rhetoric has been imflammatory at the least regarding Z. I'm just letting you know we get it. And it's quite exaggerated.

Why the hell wouldn't Jones come out vs. a Lefty?