badger1679666666

In other news, I'm really getting sick of that Tard Ponson pitching like Cy Young since he's moved to St. Louis. What is in the water in that city? The guy has sucked his whole life, and now, all of a sudden, his fat obese a** is a good pitcher?

Not really. Dusty hasn't favored him at all this year.

Yes it is evidence that the WBC is not the cause of ALL struggles. (Actually there is no causation here, only correlation). However it is not evidence that argues AGAINST a correlation between the WBC and struggling pitchers. It merely shows that there are more factors than just one, that are associated with struggling pitchers.

I think that it's pretty clear that was frustrated hyperbole by Goony. (Kind of like when people in the Game Thread advocate benching Aramis for Neifi). If not and he actually believes that WBC caused these problems, then I disagree. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that it might have a connection though.

Zambrano. Great Stuff. Check. Prior. Great Stuff when healthy. Check Wood. Great Stuff when healthy. Check Dontrelle. Great Stuff. Check Marshall. Great Stuff so far. Check Gooz/Hill. Great Stuff in the minors. Check. Garland. Great stuff/poor control til last year. Check. Do you ever get tired of being wrong? None of the above are "average" pitchers though Wood and Prior have had average careers due to injury. This thread isn't about you ridiculously dumping on the Cubs starters because you enjoy it. It's a discussion about why we can produce GREAT PITCHING TALENT, but not produce the same offensively. Which we do, regardless of what you say. In FACT, the reason why many Cubs fans are dissappointed, is because Wood hasn't lived up to how good of a pitcher he actually is. So he would be considered a very good pitcher with high expectations that has failed to live up to them. Further this thread is about the Minor League process. Sorry Badger, once again you are wrong. There are no GREAT pitchers on your list. Unless you see Jon Garland as GREAT PITCHER. Dontrelle Willis is very good, but then he's not here. The others are great potential, possible high ceilings..but not GREAT. Your boy Kerry isn't even in the discussion, as it's hard to be GREAT when you are on the DL all the time. I hope that Marshall, Guzman and Hill continue their development and I like what I see. I also hope that BigZ straightens everything out and Prior comes back strong. But I judge talent based on performance inactual MLB games, not some towel drill or simulated games. Given the Cubs low position in the amateur drafts over the 10 years of the Hendry talent search disaster, I expect alot more. Sorry man, you're wrong and being obtuse. I should know better than to engage you on discussions of pitching. The point of this thread is that we can develop pitchers (which we've done) but can't develop hitters.

Once again, because a small number of pitchers are struggling? What about Isringhausen or Jeff Weaver or Jon Garland or Livan Hernandez or Randy Johnson or Andy Pettitte, etc? The evidence does not support your claims. What does bringing those struggling pitchers into the argument have to do with Goony's theory that participation in the WBC might affect certain pitchers negatively? Are you serious? Yes. There is absolutely no evidence to support the claim. None. For every struggling WBC pitcher, we could probably find 2 or 3 who did not participate and are struggling just as much or more. Not to mention that there are plenty of WBC pitchers who are not struggling at all. No one is saying that participation in the WBC CAUSES bad performance. No one is saying that non-participation guarantees health and good performance. There may be a correlation between the WBC and struggling pitchers, and citing the struggles that have nothing to do with the WBC doesn't make any sense. I don't think Goony ever said that the only pitchers that struggled are those in the WBC.

Once again, because a small number of pitchers are struggling? What about Isringhausen or Jeff Weaver or Jon Garland or Livan Hernandez or Randy Johnson or Andy Pettitte, etc? The evidence does not support your claims. What does bringing those struggling pitchers into the argument have to do with Goony's theory that participation in the WBC might affect certain pitchers negatively? Are you serious? Yes.

Once again, because a small number of pitchers are struggling? What about Isringhausen or Jeff Weaver or Jon Garland or Livan Hernandez or Randy Johnson or Andy Pettitte, etc? The evidence does not support your claims. What does bringing those struggling pitchers into the argument have to do with Goony's theory that participation in the WBC might affect certain pitchers negatively?

Zambrano. Great Stuff. Check. Prior. Great Stuff when healthy. Check Wood. Great Stuff when healthy. Check Dontrelle. Great Stuff. Check Marshall. Great Stuff so far. Check Gooz/Hill. Great Stuff in the minors. Check. Garland. Great stuff/poor control til last year. Check. Do you ever get tired of being wrong? None of the above are "average" pitchers though Wood and Prior have had average careers due to injury. This thread isn't about you ridiculously dumping on the Cubs starters because you enjoy it. It's a discussion about why we can produce GREAT PITCHING TALENT, but not produce the same offensively. Which we do, regardless of what you say. In FACT, the reason why many Cubs fans are dissappointed, is because Wood hasn't lived up to how good of a pitcher he actually is. So he would be considered a very good pitcher with high expectations that has failed to live up to them. Further this thread is about the Minor League process.

We rule.

Our Minor league system has produced a plethora of very good pitchers in the past 8 years. Woody (Allow me to argue when healthy, he's awesome) Prior (Same argument) Zambrano Marshall Garland Guzmann/Hill (Jury out, but look to have pretty darn good stuff) Willis Pinto/Nolasco (seem to be pretty good) Marmol/Ryu (A stretch right now) (I might even be missing a few) Even with some of the question marks/unknowns, that's a pretty good track record there. How come we've produced ONE position player of worth in the past 8 years? Cedeno Dubois, Choi, Hill, Kelton, Harris have all sucked wherever they've gone. (Jason Smith is playing well for the Rockies, but I don't know when we let him go). Why are we so good at producing pitchers, but so bad at producing position players. Is it our scouting? Our coaches? Our pitching philosophy vs. hitting philosophy?

doesn't mean much. Remember when Woody went 5-0 in 2004 ST. Yea, we don't want to go there, but just sayin ST doesnt mean diddly.

Killer M's? Murton, Maddux, Marshall..... Mabry? Oh no. At least Macias isn't here anymore :wink:

Oops thats what I meant. The Cubs have left the least number of runners on base in baseball. can't have runners if no one gets on. Actually I thought they had a pretty high AVG w/ Runners in scoring position... can anyone verify?

pesky at bat by Wilson.

MONEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

It was Carlos Lee on the Brewers I believe.

Overreact much?

That's why the only thing Hendry did WELL in the offseason helps. Our Bullpen is good when it counts, any way you slice it.

I didn't look to see who posted that, and though Howry gave up an inherited runner.

Dude, look at our bench. He wasn't expecting Marshall to struggle with the two of the hacks on Pit. He had 75 pitches. Which one of our murderer's row of Blanco Neifi Bynum Hairston and Restovich were you really feeling good about?

pitching change?

Ummm, Zambrano? I forgot a 5+ ERA was any good. I know its early. This is just painfull to watch! I forgot that 5 games made a pitcher not worth a damn after 3 years of being one of the top 5 in the league.

Ummm, Zambrano?

He's only not sucked one year of his life.