XZero771679666304

Len > Chip Definitely.

I prefer signing Pena to giving up a good player for Clark. The difference between the two is not enough to give up a good prospect for, IMO. Plus, Tony isn't exactly off to a hot start this season.

Granted, this quote is from a NY newspaper, and thus, has little credibility :) Tuesday will be interesting... More of the same today.....

Do you think he would cost less than Choi or Pena?

Actually he is off to a pretty good start, especially by his standards. With tthe Twins struggling offensively, I think they might be at least a bit reluctant to deal him just yet. Not a bad idea, though I wonder if he would really be any improvement offensively over Walker. His HR totals and OPS have been worse career-wise. He wouldn't be replacing Walker, he'd be replacing Hairston or Perez. It wouldn't take much to be an improvement over those guys. Yes and no. You know Dusty is going to get Perez and Hairston some starts regardless of where Walker is. Sure, Walker would still get the lion's share of the PT, but not as much as he will at 1B. On another note, IMO Cuddyer is inferior to the other option mentioned recently, including Choi, Pena, Clark, etc.

I sense some homerism in the room. Seriously, you don't have to be a homophobe to get a laugh out of this. Besides, the running Edmonds joke here transcended possible homophobia a looooonnngg time ago. And you can't deny Jim conducted himself like an ass in that web chat, and his defensive response isn't going to do anything to dissuade any future insinuations.

I'd rather give them Wuertz than Aardsma. I think David has a chance to be pretty good. I'm not convinced Wuertz will be any better than what we have seen from him already.

For the record, I totally agree with you here.

I didn't see, as he was out of the picture. Based on the trajectory, I am thinking he had to have turned around and flung it overhand. It was vertical and going end over end, on a straight trajectory. The bat would not travel like that if it was thrown from the side, and I doubt it would have been so accurate from a distance had it been behind his back. EDIT: I was wrong. He threw it underhand.

I need to go to sleep, but can someone explain how this is worse than what Alcantra did? Or a better question, how is it "at least 10 times" worse than what Alcantra did? I don't know, what Alcantra did was pretty bad. Certainly worthy of more than a 6 game suspension. But I think you have to take some things into account: 1.Offenses against umps are always going to be dealt with more harshly than offenses against other players. I don't necessarily agree with that, but it is what it is. 2.Alcantra had been beaned, so there was bad blood aready brewing before the incident. All the ump did was make a call. 3. Young clearly had time to consider what he was doing. He was probably as close to the dugout as the ump when he decided to throw the bat. When you ar ein a heated argument, it is much easier to let it end when you separate yourself fom the person you are angry with. Everett, Alomar and even Alcantra were still in the kitchen, so to speak, and at least Carl and Roberto restrained themselves better than Delmon did. The ump had taken his mask off, and was writing on his card when the bat hit him. Clearly, there was no immediate confrontation going on, but Young still threw his bat. I don't propose a lifetime ban, though the fact that it was an option on an ESPN poll speaks to the notion that it isn't too far fetched. I think a lifetime ban would be far to severe. (the clear majority in that poll favors a season long ban, BTW) But to insinuate that what Delmon did should be punished similarly to someone who spits on an ump is preposterous, IMO.

I need to go to sleep, but can someone explain how this is worse than what Alcantra did? Or a better question, how is it "at least 10 times" worse than what Alcantra did?

The point about the umpire's reaction is perspective. Sure he flipped the bat at him pretty hard, but the umpire turned into it and barely had any reaction to it. I don't think anyone is saying Young's actions should be tolerated, but people are making a lot of inferences about the situation that are making it out to be much worse than it is. Refer back to my previous comment about the Alomar and Everett situations. Delmon made a mistake in the heat of the moment, but the backlash is beyond extreme at this point. Come on. Neither Everett's or Alomar's offenses are comparable. Young walked away from the ump, the chose to turn around and throw (not flip) his bat at the ump. When he walked away, he had enough time to consider what he wanted to do. I don't think Everett or Alomar gave any conscious thought to what they did more than 1/2 second before they did it. Young walked away, turned around and threw his bat (which is far more dangerous than a goober or slight headbutt) at the ump, likely after considering what he was going to do. Your defense of him is as irrational as any of the condemnations in this thread. They certainly are comparable. Your inference that the couple of steps he took before he chucked the bat constitute some sort of internal turmoil or premeditation are more irrational than anything I've said, and I've said several times what he did was wrong and he deserves a suspension between 15 and 30 games. Couple of steps? He totally left the picture, at least 10-15 feet away, and the bat did not re-enter the frame for another second or two. You are showing a gift for understatement in this thread. It was not like Everett or Alomar, who both were still nose to nose with the ump when what they did occurred, and neither involved a weapon. Not comparable. And a thrown bat is not that much less dangerous than a swung bat, at least compared to a fired gun vs. thrown gun. If the ump had been hit in the head or face, he could have been badly hurt. A 15 to 30 game suspension would be egregiously short, and I would be absolutely shocked if it is any shorter than 60 games when it comes down. Like I said, even the guys on BBTN were talking season long, so it's not just us.

The point about the umpire's reaction is perspective. Sure he flipped the bat at him pretty hard, but the umpire turned into it and barely had any reaction to it. I don't think anyone is saying Young's actions should be tolerated, but people are making a lot of inferences about the situation that are making it out to be much worse than it is. Refer back to my previous comment about the Alomar and Everett situations. Delmon made a mistake in the heat of the moment, but the backlash is beyond extreme at this point. Come on. Neither Everett's or Alomar's offenses are comparable. Young walked away from the ump, the chose to turn around and throw (not flip) his bat at the ump. When he walked away, he had enough time to consider what he wanted to do. I don't think Everett or Alomar gave any conscious thought to what they did more than 1/2 second before they did it. Young walked away, turned around and threw his bat (which is far more dangerous than a goober or slight headbutt) at the ump, likely after considering what he was going to do. Your defense of him is as irrational as any of the condemnations in this thread.

Perhaps. If someone really wanted to go for Delmon's blood they could charge him with aggravated assault, which usually has a max of twenty years. Aggravated assault? He flipped a bat at him, he didn't wield it and take a swing! Not only that, but it hit the dude square in a chest protector and he didn't even flinch. The overreaction to this is getting out of hand. There were probably plenty of people saying the same things about lawsuits and permanent bans when Alomar and Everett made their stupid decisions, and we'll probably see something similar here in terms of punishment, and that's fair. He threw a bat at him and could just as easily hit the ump in the head. A flying baseball bat is not a precision instrument, and Delmon is LUCKY he hit the ump in the chest, or he might be sitting in a jail cell right now. Again, given the distance Delmon was from the ump when he thew the bat, the velocity and location the bat hit, this was not just a "flip". A flipped bat does not go 15+ feet, nearly on a straight trajectory. The guys on BBTN also seemed to think a season long suspension might be coming. I think there are just as many people being overly dismissive here as overreactive.

He potentially committed a FELONY on the baseball diamond. A ban is hardly excessive. carl everett headbutted a player. did you want him banned? If I am not mistaken, Carl's headbutt was at worst simple assault. At worst, Youngs offense was ADW. Plus Young's toss wasn't a knee jerk reaction. He walked away from the ump casually, having ample time to consider his action before he took it. Everett's headbutt was in the heat of an animated, nose to nose argument, and lacked obvious intent. Plus, Carl did not use a weapon, which is exactly what a bat is when you throw it at someone.

You do see the difference in "battery" and "attempted murder"? Nobody is saying he was trying to kill him. However, Delmon HIMSELF said he was trying to hit the umpire. So you can stop with the "accident" crap. Have you even watched the video??? He threw his freaking bat at an umpire. This wasn't some underhanded, excuse me flip, toss of the bat. He THREW his bat at another person. I seriously wonder about you sometimes dude. Exactly. Young hit the ump intentionally with a dangerous weapon. His suspension should reflect what a deliberate, reckess and very dangerous offense this was. I think a year is pretty conservative. And if he had been trying to really injure or kill him we would be discussing things extending far beyond a suspension.

In the clip I saw, the throw looked neither awkward or low to the ground. I didn't see it leave Delmon's hand, but it hit the ump in the upper body, and looked to have some decent velocity. And it also looked to be more than 10 feet away, since Young was out of the picture when the bat was tossed. Clearly, it was more than a flippant "I disagree with your call, so I am going to toss my equipment" thing. The call was made, Young walked out of the picture, enough time passed for him to think about what he was doing, and then the bat comes flying. Not bouncing in the dirt, or skidding along the ground, but airborne into the ump's chest. Then on SC, they say "sources" (presumable teammates or coaches) say he intended to hit the ump with the bat. I don't see how Young can be defended here. Regardless of intent, he should be suspended for the remainder of the season. Underhand or over, hard or soft, malicious intent or no, throwing a bat at an ump should be punished severely.

Completely disagree. I'm pretty sure I heard on SportsCenter that sources said Young did in fact intend to hit the umpire with the bat. I'm not sure what else he thought he was going to accomplish by that other than hurting or scaring him.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/XZero77/Edmonds.jpg What's to discuss here? He sure sounded a little defensive, to boot.....

Actually he is off to a pretty good start, especially by his standards. With tthe Twins struggling offensively, I think they might be at least a bit reluctant to deal him just yet. Not a bad idea, though I wonder if he would really be any improvement offensively over Walker. His HR totals and OPS have been worse career-wise.

His ability to miss bats is not irrelevant. I don't have those links handy, but TT or BK might. Are you just referencing K's or BB's as well? Because the walks are very much a concern. As his his inconsistency. If I though trading Wuertz would contribute at all to the Cubs keeping their heads above water until Lee returns, I wouldn't hesitate for a second. Wasn't most of this due to overuse? Micheal hasn't thrown a lot of innings. It may be because his stamina just isn't what it should be. Plus both in 2004 and 2005, he had his really bad stretches in the beginning or middle of the season, and his good stretches in the second half. Looking at his game logs from 2004/2005, there seems to be no pattern to his poor outings. Some came after an outing the previous day, but just as many of his worst ones came early in the season after 1-3 days of rest. It sure doesn't look like overuse is an issue.

His ability to miss bats is not irrelevant. I don't have those links handy, but TT or BK might. Are you just referencing K's or BB's as well? Because the walks are very much a concern. As his his inconsistency. If I though trading Wuertz would contribute at all to the Cubs keeping their heads above water until Lee returns, I wouldn't hesitate for a second.

Past Reds hot starts seem to indicate otherwise, although I do see your point. We're exceedingly lucky to be 12-8 right now. I disagree. We have more pitching depth and a much better bullpen than the Reds. The Reds have a better overall lineup. I think our pitching is more valuable than their hitting. Agreed. The Reds have an awsome offense, but when that pitching goes, it's gonna go big time. There was a reason many were predicting the Reds to finish dead last before the season started. The Reds basement is a lot lower than the Cubs'.

My problem with the article is that it's basically "yeah, they're all doing good, but it won't last." It just seemed like a very downer type of article for so early in the season. He could have done with same article with a different tone and called it "Early Season Surprises." Then I wouldn't have had a problem with it. He would have had it been Suppan with Maddux's numbers. There's no doubt that overall, Perry is a biased hack.

They're both playing lousy teams. I know, but I wish they'd play down to their competition. I'm not worried about the Reds, it's not a question of if, but when with that pitching. The Cards on the other hand are winning with Edmonds and Encarnacion struggling badly. Granted Pujols has been red hot. Rolen is out with an illness, and Pujols was IBB'd with a RISP today. The crowd booed, but they'd better get used to it.