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Pie would be a success if he became DeJesus with the bat. He's significantly better with the glove. Good point on the defensive difference. I'm kind of leaning right now toward thinking a Pie + something deal would be worth DeJesus. Veal? I was thinking Ceda, but Veal would work too. I find Veal more valuable than Ceda - mainly because Veal's a starter - do you agree? Ceda is far more valuable as a prospect and at this point, Veal is starting to look like a potential reliever. Hmm, interesting. I was still under the (mistaken, I suppose) impression that Veal had legit starting potential. I knew he had bad control problems, but didn't realize they were that bad. It'd be one thing if there was any sort of improvement, but there hasn't. He has spurts but then he gets back into terrible control mode. At the same time his walk rate remains consistantly terrible, his K rate has dropped from great to good to average/below average. Definitely disturbing. Sounds like the ideal chip to sell on potential alone.

Pie would be a success if he became DeJesus with the bat. He's significantly better with the glove. Good point on the defensive difference. I'm kind of leaning right now toward thinking a Pie + something deal would be worth DeJesus. Veal? I was thinking Ceda, but Veal would work too. I find Veal more valuable than Ceda - mainly because Veal's a starter - do you agree? Ceda is far more valuable as a prospect and at this point, Veal is starting to look like a potential reliever. Hmm, interesting. I was still under the (mistaken, I suppose) impression that Veal had legit starting potential. I knew he had bad control problems, but didn't realize they were that bad. He's a legit starter if he had better control but at some point and time if he doesn't improve, a team's going to move him to the pen because they'll want their started to get into the 5th inning with less than 100 pitches. He has the stuff of a #2 starter (though his K rate has dropped :?). I knew his stuff was terrific, which is why I figured he'd stick it out in the rotation even with iffy control. If the control gets too bad, though, I can definitely see the reasoning for moving him to the pen.

I don't. Veal can't seem to get his walks under control. Ceda's got his own control issues, but at least he's got nearly unhittable stuff to offset it. Control is definitely a concern - I'm not utterly sold on Ceda though. He's the type of guy I'd like to ship off while his value is really high. which was last offseason I didn't know it had dropped. Well, this year confirmed that he absolutely can't be converted to a starter. Hes done really well in AA back in relief so maybe its remained neutral. Thanks nilo! I need to peruse the minor league forum more I guess. :D

Pie would be a success if he became DeJesus with the bat. He's significantly better with the glove. Good point on the defensive difference. I'm kind of leaning right now toward thinking a Pie + something deal would be worth DeJesus. Veal? I was thinking Ceda, but Veal would work too. I find Veal more valuable than Ceda - mainly because Veal's a starter - do you agree? Ceda is far more valuable as a prospect and at this point, Veal is starting to look like a potential reliever. Hmm, interesting. I was still under the (mistaken, I suppose) impression that Veal had legit starting potential. I knew he had bad control problems, but didn't realize they were that bad.

I don't. Veal can't seem to get his walks under control. Ceda's got his own control issues, but at least he's got nearly unhittable stuff to offset it. Control is definitely a concern - I'm not utterly sold on Ceda though. He's the type of guy I'd like to ship off while his value is really high. which was last offseason I didn't know it had dropped.

I don't. Veal can't seem to get his walks under control. Ceda's got his own control issues, but at least he's got nearly unhittable stuff to offset it. Control is definitely a concern - I'm not utterly sold on Ceda though. He's the type of guy I'd like to ship off while his value is really high.

Pie would be a success if he became DeJesus with the bat. He's significantly better with the glove. Good point on the defensive difference. I'm kind of leaning right now toward thinking a Pie + something deal would be worth DeJesus. Veal? I was thinking Ceda, but Veal would work too. I find Veal more valuable than Ceda - mainly because Veal's a starter - do you agree?

Pie would be a success if he became DeJesus with the bat. He's significantly better with the glove. Good point on the defensive difference. I'm kind of leaning right now toward thinking a Pie + something deal would be worth DeJesus.

Only Ed Wade can answer that. . .

For those more SABR inclined: Is this year's David DeJesus about what Pie projects to? And would it be worth giving Pie + ? for him?

I think with the escalation of player salaries, most of Marquis' $9 million for next year might be "movable." Exactly, hence why I'm not looking to deal him for utter crap. His contract isn't over market value right now, as he's pitched pretty much to his contract to this point. If given much of a return at all, though, I'd be willing to trade him.

That would be a heck of a steal for the Rangers if they could pull off Gerald Laird for Homer Bailey.

I don't know that I'd swap Marquis for Maddux. Maddux likely wouldn't be much better than league average playing most of his games in Wrigley and Marquis has given us league average production. The only benefit I see is if Maddux's contract is up after this year. I'd take Maddux in a swap for Marquis only because it gets us out of Marquis's contract. For this year, I don't think Maddux would be any better and might be a hair worse. Maddux's road ERA: 6.02 Marquis' ERA: 4.69 Obviously, this isn't the most scientific of comparisons, but even if his ERA drops a lot as a Cub, he could still easily be a lot worse than Marquis. I do like that we'd be out of Marquis' contract, though. So I wouldn't be completely opposed to the swap, just not excited about it.

DeJesus would actually be the better option, depending on how much more expensive he is. He's got more power, plus he can play center - which improves the defense because it keeps Fukudome in right. Not a huge difference, but something else to consider. DeJesus may cost a whole lot more, though. And I would take either over Ibanez.

I don't know that I'd swap Marquis for Maddux. Maddux likely wouldn't be much better than league average playing most of his games in Wrigley and Marquis has given us league average production. The only benefit I see is if Maddux's contract is up after this year.

Even if this injury isn't more than they're letting on, Edmonds is still a serious injury risk the more he plays. With another starter caliber outfielder on the roster (DeJesus, Giles) we can move Edmonds into more of a pinch-hitter/spot starter role and perhaps avoid any more nagging or longterm injuries.

I hope not Ward is one of the top PHers out there. While he's having a down year with the bat, he's really patient which gets him into good counts or at the least gets him on base with a walk. The who does he replace? If we were to get either Giles or DeJesus, do we send Fontenot down? I surely hope not as he has been one of the best hitters over the last month. Do we release Edmonds? I hope not, since Edmonds when he's been able to play has still been pretty good for us. Reed Johnson? I still think we need the righty bat. Cedeno? Nope. He's the back-up SS. The logical answer is Ward would be gone. I like Ward for his role, but his limited ability defensively hampers us. If we replace Ward say with Giles, we have more parts to mix and match in the outfield without sacrificing defense. The only other option would be to keep Ward and go to an 11 man pitching staff for a month until rosters expand. In fact an outfield of Soriano, Fukudome, and Giles would look really good. With Johnson and Edmonds on the bench, we can pretty much give any outfielder a day off without sacrificing much production. Add to the fact that we could play DeRosa in the OF as well on days that either Fontenot or Cedeno play second, and we have a number of options. With Ward, he's good for one AB per game. I wouldn't be surprised to see a little roster tweaking that either has Cotts going to the minors for the month of August or Edmonds hitting the DL through August. That way, when rosters expand Edmonds/Cotts returns and (thanks to injuries) can still be eligible for the postseason roster. Plus, we still have Ward as a weapon off the bench for the playoffs. It may not happen that way, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they made it work without dumping a valuable (although limited) piece like Ward.

Looks like just one man's opinion though. He doesn't cite any polls. I'm surprised to see Tennessee that high (10th) and Alabama that low (8th). I would have put Bama ahead of, at least, Oklahoma, Miami and Texas. Possibly as high as fourth (kicking Florida down a peg or two). And I respect the heck out of Bear Bryant. Bama? Hated? I don't see it. They're been absolutely irrelevant to most of the country for a long time now. If I had to guess the teams on this list, they probably wouldn't have been in my first 15 guesses. Miami should be higher..they've been hated by a lot of people for a long time now. Florida State should be on that list. I've still noticed a lot of hatred for Nebraska even though they haven't been on the map for awhile. There aren't enough people out there who hate Florida State. We're not a bunch of arrogant bastards (UF fans) or thugs (UM fans). We're just simple rednecks who enjoy a good football game. The problem I've had with Florida State has been the media hype surrounding them. It's decreased lately, but through the 90s and early 2000s few teams got the media hype Flordia State did. It bugged me like heck that the Seminoles were so heavily favored by many to beat Tennessee in 98. Not sure what the official line was, but I got the feeling the Vols were, for some reason, heavy underdogs heading into that game. Well, when you accomplish something no other team in CFB history has done (15 straight Top 5's), you get some media attention. I'll warrant it was without merit in the 00's, but I have no issue saying it was correct in the 90's. Something interesting about the UT game for you to chew on (especially if you're a gambler). Before the Fiesta Bowl, Tostitos printed 135,000 UT National Champs bags, and only 40,000 FSU bags. I'm not saying things are fixed, but that seemed a bit fishy compared to the lines. Also, I think that game ends differently if Wienke is playing QB instead of the Rooster (Marcus Outzen). If you were a Bama fan, you'd accuse Phil Fulmer of cheating. . . but you're not a Bama fan are you? :wink: And the game is different, but I think Tennessee still wins with Weinke starting. With the Syracuse and Arkansas games as my evidence, the Vols were destined to win that year. They were really, really good too.

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=224434&src=152 Hmmm, Stern is very much a traditionalist and would fit well in perceived "good ole boys" clubs. Seems like his recommendation would have quite a bit of impact for anyone riding the fence on Cuban. Stern knows Cuban has been good for the NBA, referee criticisms aside. Cuban took over the Mavericks and not only made them a contender, but also made them one of the most popular franchises in the NBA. Cuban may have been a disciplinary headache, but he's been one of the best things to happen to the NBA in the past few years. Very true. I'm pleased, but not surprised, that he got Stern's endorsement.

Truffle, it should be obvious that Latroy Hawkins and Randy Wolf can make up 13 games in the standings. They're juggernauts now.

Looks like just one man's opinion though. He doesn't cite any polls. I'm surprised to see Tennessee that high (10th) and Alabama that low (8th). I would have put Bama ahead of, at least, Oklahoma, Miami and Texas. Possibly as high as fourth (kicking Florida down a peg or two). And I respect the heck out of Bear Bryant. Bama? Hated? I don't see it. They're been absolutely irrelevant to most of the country for a long time now. If I had to guess the teams on this list, they probably wouldn't have been in my first 15 guesses. Miami should be higher..they've been hated by a lot of people for a long time now. Florida State should be on that list. I've still noticed a lot of hatred for Nebraska even though they haven't been on the map for awhile. There aren't enough people out there who hate Florida State. We're not a bunch of arrogant bastards (UF fans) or thugs (UM fans). We're just simple rednecks who enjoy a good football game. The problem I've had with Florida State has been the media hype surrounding them. It's decreased lately, but through the 90s and early 2000s few teams got the media hype Flordia State did. It bugged me like heck that the Seminoles were so heavily favored by many to beat Tennessee in 98. Not sure what the official line was, but I got the feeling the Vols were, for some reason, heavy underdogs heading into that game.

Looks like just one man's opinion though. He doesn't cite any polls. I'm surprised to see Tennessee that high (10th) and Alabama that low (8th). I would have put Bama ahead of, at least, Oklahoma, Miami and Texas. Possibly as high as fourth (kicking Florida down a peg or two). And I respect the heck out of Bear Bryant. Bama? Hated? I don't see it. They're been absolutely irrelevant to most of the country for a long time now. If I had to guess the teams on this list, they probably wouldn't have been in my first 15 guesses. Miami should be higher..they've been hated by a lot of people for a long time now. Florida State should be on that list. I've still noticed a lot of hatred for Nebraska even though they haven't been on the map for awhile. I still stand by Bama. Maybe I had them a bit high (my Tennessee bias showing I suppose), but when the entire South hates you, you're hated by a whole lot of college football fans.

len/bob think so He was just throwing everybody off. :D

.550 career minor league OPS and .491 career OPS in the majors, for what it's worth.

And, I guess, that's why you don't hit and run there. It's a tie game without Yost's work.