Outshined_One
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Everything posted by Outshined_One
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Show me the last pitcher who had a mediocre season and won 20 games. Pitching very well is a pre-req for winning 20 games. Russ Ortiz in 2003. Damnit, ok show me the last one before him. Does Andy Pettitte in 2003 count? How about in 2000, when he had 19 wins? 1996?
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I'm hoping that this is the result of a telephone game-like situation gone out of control. As in... Jim Hendry to Assistant GM: I asked the Orioles about Tejada and they said that they'd trade him only for Prior. I told them I'd only do that trade if they threw in Erik Bedard, Daniel Cabrera, Nick Markakis, Adam Loewen, JJ Johnson, and Hayden Penn. Assistant GM to Intern: Jimbo said that he'd trade Prior for Tejada, Bedard, and prospects. Intern to Ken Rosenthal: Jim Hendry said he'd trade Prior for Tejada and some other dudes...I dunno who they were. Ken Rosenthal in his article: Jim Hendry would trade Mark Prior for Miguel Tejada! Journalists who rip off Rosenthal's article: Jim Hendry is deadset on trading Prior for Tejada! Journalists who rip off of each other: Jim Hendry is close to dealing Mark Prior for Miguel Tejada...purple monkey dishwasher! -
Needless to say, I'm incredibly thankful the Orioles are being quite greedy in this whole process. Look, I like Tejada and think he would be an automatic upgrade over what we currently have at SS. He'll produce nicely in this lineup and his contract is reasonable. I have no problem with Hendry making a move to acquire him. But...he's not the kind of bat that would turn this offense into a juggernaut for the next few years. He's not a Manny Ramirez, a Miguel Cabrera, or an Albert Pujols. Heck, he's not even a Bobby Abreu or a Lance Bekman. As it's been said, Tejada would make a solid 5th hitter. I don't think he'll out-produce Aramis Ramirez next season and I think there's a reasonable chance that Derrek Lee out-produces Tejada, as well. If the Cubs are going to trade Prior, my hope would be that it would be for some one who could make this team an offensive force. I don't see that in Tejada. I'm also worried that Tejada's production and range will continue to decline over the length of his contract. If he has to move from SS because his range has taken a nosedive, then his value will go flying out the window. I really do hope that if the Cubs trade Prior to the Orioles that they get some worthwhile prospects from the Orioles. Trading Prior for just Tejada and Bedard would be a mistake, imo. At least some decent prospects would make it suck less.
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You take a 130 mph line drive off your pitching arm and get upended by Marcus Giles on the basepaths...all of a sudden you're injury-prone. Come on, painting Mark Prior like he's some sort of brittle and injury-prone never will be is an absolute mistake. As far as I'm concerned, it's a miracle he actually came back a month after taking that line drive off his pitching arm. Heck, when I saw it, I legitimately thought that his pitching career could well have been over at that point. If anything, that showed me his ability to recover from injury is pretty darn good. Something tells me there isn't any pitcher out there who could take a shot like that to his pitching arm and not get injured.
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Zambrano is, but Prior is not. When did Prior leave Boras? I could have sworn Prior didn't have Boras as his agent. Let me do some digging.
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Zambrano is, but Prior is not.
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The Wood contract was handed out knowing that Wood has an established history of injuries and that there was a good chance that he would see time on the DL during that contract. Sosa, on the other hand, had so much going into that contract and the way it all played out that I really don't think many people saw it coming, especially given how the last offseason went. Personally, I wanted to trade Sosa while his value was at its highest, but that's in the past. Also, if they don't want to remain in Chicago, then I would hope that the myth of players wanting to play for Dusty Baker since he's such a great player's manager would be shattered once and for all. If he can't keep his top two aces happy, then who the heck does he keep happy? Is it just the crappy washed up veterans who had no value to begin with? This team better not give The Maddux Treatment to Prior or Zambrano, or else I seriously will give thought to giving up on the Cubs.
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BINGO I don't advacate the trading of Z or Prior, but that is a very realistic point. Remember not trading Sammy in 01 I think? Big mistake. Hindsight is always 20/20. That is seriously financial irresponsibility on the Cubs' behalf, especially considering the contracts they just handed out to Jock, Eyre, and Howry.
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A good number of reasons, in my mind: 1) The Cubs already have a guy who can play SS halfway decently in Ronnie Cedeno. Even if Cedeno doesn't turn out to be anything special with the bat, he still has always been a good defensive guy. Plus he's cheap. If his bat comes around, all the better. 2) Tejada is past his prime years and will be entering a decline in the near future. He might be the top SS in baseball who plays SS...but that's not saying a lot considering the quality of shortstops that are out there. It's like being the tallest midget. 3) Prior is one of the top young pitchers in baseball; no one can dispute this. The Cubs will have him under control until the 2008 offseason. He will be due money, but if this organization sees the raises he'll be due in arbitration as incentive to trade him because of salary considerations, then they shouldn't have thrown around bad contracts for guys like Neifi and Jock. 4) The talent and ceiling dropoff from Prior to Tejada is noticeable enough in terms of production that trading Prior for Tejada straight up would be a mistake for the Cubs. Do you think Tejada is going to win another MVP? How about Prior's chances at winning a couple of Cy Youngs? 5) Prior is not injury-prone, despite what the lazy idiots who don't follow the Cubs say. Frankly, I'm impressed that he wasn't finished for the season when he took that line drive off his pitching arm. And if it turns out that Prior may have some permanent damage that the Cubs are telling no one about, why the heck did they continue to trot him out there after he got drilled?! Wouldn't that have just exacerbated the problem??? Then again, given the way this organization handled Wood this past season, no length of idiocy surprises me any more with these people.
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Cubs Get: Harden, Tejada, Bedard, cash, prospects Orioles Get: Prior and Zito Athletics Get: A lot of really good prospects likely involving Rich Hill and Nick Markakis That I could live with. Oh come on, that's just silly. As is trading Prior straight up for Tejada, imo. Seriously, this is borderline ridiculous. I feel like Jim Hendry secretly lost a bet with Jim Bowden, allowing Bowden to run the Cubs' 2006 offseason.
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Cubs Get: Harden, Tejada, Bedard, cash, prospects Orioles Get: Prior and Zito Athletics Get: A lot of really good prospects likely involving Rich Hill and Nick Markakis That I could live with.
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The official report: This made me feel physically ill.
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I'm debating whether or not I'm more bitter about Hendry missing out on Tejada or Vlad, because Tejada would have been a bigger upgrade over AGonz than Vlad would have been over Alou, but Vlad is the better overall player. Tough call. I'm going to go break something, brb.
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Something is up and this is bothering the heck out of me. Because this is the kind of deal that makes no sense without further details. Prior for Tejada straight up is lunacy. The Cubs would have a rotation of Zambrano, Maddux, Rusch, Hill, and a 5th starter (Millwood? The return of Shawn Estes?) with Wood waiting in the wings for whenever the heck he'll come back. I'd have to think a ML-caliber pitcher is involved. If it's Prior for Tejada, Cabrera or Bedard, and prospects, then that to me signals Hendry has either lost his mind or he's retooling for a run in 2007. But that makes no sense given the moves he's made so far this offseason, which he has come out and said will make this team competitive for the 2006 season. He's not in rebuilding mode. I don't think Jim is dumb enough to equate Prior's potential production with Tejada + Bedard + prospects, especially given that the Cubs have Prior under control until 2008. This team should have the financial resources to retain guys like Prior and Zambrano; we're not Kansas City. But, for the life of me, I can't imagine who else Hendry is targeting if a third team is involved. The lineup is set; Hendry didn't give up prospects for Pierre and throw wads of cash at Jock just to have them ride pine. It's possible that he could be replacing Murton in LF. He might also be looking to acquire a starter to replace Prior to get mixed into this deal. For my sanity's sake, I'll just pretend Hendry is somehow working on acquiring a package of Peavy, Tejada, Dunn, and prospects in exchange for Prior, Murton, and prospects. I know that's not the case, but hey, anything to prevent me from leaving a flaming bag of dog crap on Jim Hendry's front step.
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With the way this offseason has gone, I really can't blame any Cubs fans for being half-crazed at this point.
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I think Bedard could be a competent 2/3 starter if he manages to keep himself healthy. Markakis seems like he'll be a pretty good OF and Loewen looks like the ground ball version of Rich Hill. Along with Tejada, I'd happily have any of those guys in this organization. But, that kind of move just signals desperation and idiocy on Jim Hendry's part, in my opinion. I'm still concerned about Prior because some one must have thrown a black cat at him, but the fact remains that he has the potential to be the best starting pitcher in baseball and that he'll be under the Cubs' control until 2008. He is the kind of guy I do NOT want to find myself looking back on after watching him win a bunch of Cy Youngs and saying to myself, "I remember when he used to be a Cub...he was pretty good..." while drowning my sorrows in a pint of beer. He's on the same level as Zambrano, in my mind. The multiteam aspect of this deal has me curious, though. I'd like to know who the third and (potentially) fourth teams are and what players are rumored to be moved. Maybe he'll be shipping Derrek Lee off to Boston in exchange for Matt Clement!
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I would not do this deal. I agree, however Tejada/Bedard for Prior would make the Cubs a lot better in 06. i fully expect a Cy Young season from prior next year, and if he's traded, that's a lock. Why do you fully expect that? Cub luck. After sleeping on this trade proposal, I still think it's an absolutely terrible idea. Even if it's Prior for Tejada, Bedard, Loewen, and Markakis I can't say I'd be thrilled. The Cubs don't need to shortchange their future to bring in an overrated shortstop like Tejada. I don't care what the stats say, but he's not worth the price he's commanding. At this point, I'm hoping Kenny Williams sneaks in and steals Tejada away from the Cubs. That'd be one deal I would be thankful for him sticking his nose into.
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Anyone else find it funny that the most optimistic person in this thread about the Cubs' chances is a Cardinals fan?
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Again, it's a hard call, especially considering that he and Dunn are only separated by a few months in age (11/9/79 vs. 4/11/80) with less than a million dollars ($4.6m vs. $3.625m) separating them in terms of 2005 salary (not sure how 2006 will look). Their career OPS numbers are separated by .002 (with Teixeira getting the edge), while in terms of three year splits Dunn has a .009 advantage. Dunn walks a heck of a lot more, while Teixeira strikes out less. Given what I said about Dunn when I first mentioned him, I'd likely apply it to Teixeira, as well.
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I have a hard time envisioning how this trade would look good for the Cubs. Tejada + Bedard + Loewen + Markakis would be nice.
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Another guy I gave thought to, although I'm curious as to how good he would be defensively in the OF. Also, his home field is quite hitter-friendly. Three year splits Home: .311/390/.629/1.019 Away: .253/.334/.454/.788 In all fairness, he is going to turn 26 next season and there's been a marked improvement in his stats over the past three years. His numbers are fairly even from both side of the plate, to boot. Tough call, I'm going to have to mull that one over.
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Adam Dunn is some one I'd give a lot of thought to trading Z straight up for...but I'd probably reject it in the end. Peavy? Tough call, I'm curious as to how much pitching in Petco have helped his numbers out. Utley? No thanks. Great player and all, but his productivity likely will not even come close to Z's productivity career-wise. Bay? I like his upside and ceiling, but not enough to do that trade. Vlad? Tough call, but his back worries me. Probably not.
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Let's see... Delmon Young Felix Hernandez Albert Pujols Miguel Cabrera Johan Santana Alex Rodriguez That's about it. I wavered on putting A-Rod on there due to salary considerations, the fact that he's a jerk (Mr. Slappyhands), and the fact that it seems like a lot of his stats are put up in garbage time. However, he'd be a welcome upgrade over Neifi at SS...so yeah. I may have missed one or two guys, though.
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And people say Cubs fans overrate their own players ... There are very few players in baseball I would give Zambrano up for straight up. He's still young, still cheap, and has been a legit contender for the Cy Young over the past two seasons. I think the number of players I would do it for could maybe be counted on two hands. Miguel Tejada is not one of them.
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What's the difference between the two, out of curiosity?
