I have been in TKD for ten years. It annoys me to no end the steriotyping that goes on with TKD. Yes, TKD has a major artistic element to it. However much you may think you know by having friends in it, I have been in it for the greater part of my life [insert your young joke here]. The difference between TKD and those other styles you mentioned are that the classes are, for the most part, not as hard core. By that I mean, our intention is not to beat the living hell out of each other. When sparring in Karate (Some forms at least) punches to the head, and kicks to the legs are legal. TKD is a more controlled art. Punches to the face and anything below the belt is illegal in sparring. But, We often remind the students that, obviously, only counts in class and tournaments. If you ever have to defend yourself the rules go out the window. Classes are fairly evenly tailored. While we teach the artistic side, or forms side of things, we explain how, if altered, these same artistic moves could be used in real life situations. And we practice them accordingly many times. There is an entire class devoted to self defense on saturdays, at my school. Many other schools also have such classes. Its been brought up a couple times in this thread that the moves are ineffective. That is a horrible horrible and very untrue steriotype. Not that I dont know what your talking about. There is always that kid who is a little twirp but goes around bragging he is a black belt in TKD and he can kick anyones ass. But he always gets creamed. There was the perfect example of htis in my school up untill last year, when he quit TKD. The problem with these kids is they have NO idea how to use what they have learned. They just go around saying they are so great because either 1) they think if they tell people that, then said people will be affraid of them and leave htem alone. or 2) It makes them feel like a big guy to say they can kick your ass. To say that the moves are ineffective in a fight is simply wrong. The problem is, exactly what you noted, they try to do their "steps". THey try to do combinations of moves verbatum from forms. WHich is why i say these people do not know how to APPLY their knowlege. A fighter, no matter what discipline of martial art they are from, must be able to think on their feet. Like people have said, fights are chaotic. The people you see getting their ass kicked are being manhandled because they have this huge image of theirselves because they are a "BLACK BELT" and they think that makes them invinsible. That goes for EVERY martial art. Either that, or they have just not taken advantage of the full spectrum of TKD. You will find htat these students that are so boastfull or full of their TKD knowledge are those who only practice forms. They do not take sparring classes. And when they do (i.e. when we spar in our everyday classes, and they are forced to) they just go through the motions. See, TKD can be broken up into three pretty equal categories. Forms, Sparring, and Board breaking. Those three parts are all very important to TKD. There are those who for various reasons (health, mental handicaps, physical handicaps, being a pansy) just focus on the form part. Some are jsut in it to say they are in it. Those are the people you see getting the living donkey crap kicked out of them. Like I said, the Steriotypes that are placed on TKD annoy me to no end. To put it in terms everyone here can understand. Saying that TKD is ineffective, that they are usually the worst fighters, and so on is as uninformed as saying that Adam Dunn is a horrible player because he strikes out too much, and that AVG/HR/RBI are the only stats that count.