Wilson A2000

Probably. But you don't know why me (and a lot of other people) are hung up on Bonds breaking two of sports most important records and doing it while cheating? That's what this has always been about. I'm OK with moving on.

I don't think Bonds, Sosa, or ARod used a legal PED alone. There was always something illegal they were taking in addition to any legal ones. I don't have a problem if you have a prescription. I don't think they did. There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin. You could have stopped posting when jersey did. But feel free to correct me and start a thread on evolution too.

The point is that "looking for huge guys" isn't an accurate way of guessing who was and is using PEDs. Not everyone hulks out. When do you think Sosa started using? Sure, not everyone does. But Bonds did. That is really not debatable. Nobody has disagreed with that point, so I have no idea what you think you're arguing. So his power and build increase from 1993-1997 was just one of those things? I never said everyone gets huge after PED's, but you asked me how I knew Bonds got big and I said 25 lbs of muscle in one offseason and that most everyone in the Giants organization put two and two together was plenty of evidence. When Sosa went from 36 to 66 home runs and had gotten huge rather quickly, something was up. I said he could have started PED's before 1998. Probably did. But I'm certain he was on them in 1998.

I don't think Bonds, Sosa, or ARod used a legal PED alone. There was always something illegal they were taking in addition to any legal ones. I don't have a problem if you have a prescription. I don't think they did.

The point is that "looking for huge guys" isn't an accurate way of guessing who was and is using PEDs. Not everyone hulks out. When do you think Sosa started using? Sure, not everyone does. But Bonds did. That is really not debatable. Sosa most likely started at least between 1997-1998.

Wait, you think ALL "steroids" were made illegal in 1991? Made illegal in baseball those that were already illegal by federal law. "The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players or personnel is strictly prohibited.... This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs ... including steroids or prescription drugs for which the individual in possession of the drug does not have a prescription."

I said it was rare. There is no evidence that Hank did PED's other than trying them once, despite the fluctuations and his home runs staying on a level plane. Why do you think Aaron's numbers were so great toward the end of his career? There's no evidence that Sosa did either, but here we are ? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4264062 Yes, in 2003. He never tested positive or was busted before that. You're the one that keeps railing on about evidence, and then people bring up the tests and you turn around and say the evidence is "Wilson looked at his TV and decided that guy was too big." It wasn't just me. The Fainaru-Wada SI article states that Bonds's teamates knew something was up after 1998 when he put on 20 lbs of pure muscle even though he was working his butt off for years before that. People saw the same thing with Sosa.

Do you think Bonds was taking them in '98? He never tested positive for them until much later.

I said it was rare. There is no evidence that Hank did PED's other than trying them once, despite the fluctuations and his home runs staying on a level plane. Why do you think Aaron's numbers were so great toward the end of his career? There's no evidence that Sosa did either, but here we are ? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4264062 They weren't illegal in MLB then. They were illegal in 1991, there were just no penalties until 2003 I thought

If the rooftop owners proceed with litigation and the Cubs don't want to break ground until that is completed, do we have any idea how long the litigation will take?

I said it was rare. There is no evidence that Hank did PED's other than trying them once, despite the fluctuations and his home runs staying on a level plane. Why do you think Aaron's numbers were so great toward the end of his career? There's no evidence that Sosa did either, but here we are ? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4264062

I said it was rare. There is no evidence that Hank did PED's other than trying them once, despite the fluctuations and his home runs staying on a level plane. Why do you think Aaron's numbers were so great toward the end of his career?

Look at his baseball reference profile. His stat progression matches the career arc of a steroid user exactly. There is no corroborating evidence that he did PED's other than the one time he said he did. So they were legal for most of his career and Aaron still says he didn't do them. If steroids were legal in the US and legal in baseball right now, I would have no problem. That is why I'm not up in arms about the old time baseball players who used them. Amphetamines weren't banned by the federal government until 1970 (illegal in baseball in 1971 I believe) and anabolic steroids weren't illegal until 1990 from what the net says. Aaron's home run totals fluctuated throughout his career. "From nearly every sports-writing quarter and even Aaron himself, we have heard that the primary reason for Aaron's mark of 755 is because of his yearly home run consistency. However, statistically speaking, a stronger case can be made that Aaron was an INCONSISTENT home run hitter. From '56-'58, he went from 26 to 44 to 30 home runs; from '63 to '64 he dropped from 44 to 24; and from '68 to '69 he went from 29 to 44. A look at the world's most valuable sports website– Baseball-Reference.com will show that Aaron's yearly home run totals jumped or declined by at least 12 home runs on EIGHT separate occasions despite a remarkably consistent number of year-to-year at bat totals. In contrast, neither Bonds, Ruth, nor Mays exceeded five yearly 12-HR fluctuations." http://www.cosellout.com/2007/08/22/behind-the-myths-part-755-hank-aaron-bonds-with-barry/

Hank Aaron used [expletive] PEDs. Regularly. Where is your evidence for this? Because he played in a time period (for the most part) where greenies were legal and they were given away in the clubhouse? Anyway, amphetamines weren't even made illegal until 1970 without a prescription.

I laughed too as I was posting it

Every day I wish Arians was head coach. I hope to be proved wrong.

Yeah, I hear his pseudo-intellectual mumbo jumbo and just picture a clubhouse full of dude completely tuning him out. Maybe one of the reasons he's never had a head coaching job in the NFL before? We know he has the offensive mind, but what the heck was that press conference today.

Science. If Sosa never took steroids how many homers do you think he would have ended up with?

We have the physical evidence on Bonds, not Aaron. I give people the benefit of the doubt. Same for Pujols. You have no "physical evidence" because nobody was looking and testing, yet you've had people in the game talk about how PED usage goes back decades. Of course. But has anyone accused Aaron and seen him take them? No, so I give him the benefit. We know ARod took them. I'm not keeping anyone out of the HOF with no evidence, steroid era or not. Then why are you arguing against a bunch of guys who have no evidence? Evidence can go beyond testing. The evidence for Bonds using them was the way his body evolved right after he got jealous at the home run derby. When Sosa came to camp in the late 90's his teammates saw his evolution. I don't think Aaron's body evolved like Sosa's or Bonds's. And no one has accused Aaron of anything that I'm aware of. He said he tried greenies once.

So you don't have a problem with "cheating" as long as the "cheating" doesn't help too much. No, I said both were wrong and I would hold Aaron and Bonds to the same standard. But greenies and modern steroids have far different effects.

That's why they call it the Human No Growth Hormone. Whatever Bonds, Sosa, and ARod were on worked.

Steroids. Bonds was on a cocktail. HGH, horse roids, masking agent.

At work on my phone no time to look everything up

Double post

But I do think the performance greenies got you is nowhere near the benefits BALCO and Biogenesis gave. Worlds apart.