don_kessinger_was_good

Well, at least we've been able to keep them in our system. D'oh! Um, they brought us big name talent in trades? Uh, did anything positive come from them (aside from Alfonseca, that one's obvious)? Yes. We got all of Brown's usefulness, he was never the same after the 98 dropped ball incident, and we turned him into Jon Lieber--just in time for Lieber's 20-win season in 01. I'd say we got plenty of usefulness out of Trachsel and Farnsworth, and Adams as far as that goes. Really, when you look at that list, the only real "mistakes" were Willis of course, and to a degree the Hinske for Chiasson deal, which wouldn't have looked so bad if Chiasson didn't throw his arm out. Diffusion's list is slightly misleading by the way, in that if you go back just two or three years farther, you pick up names like Grace, Palmeiro, Moyer and Maddux. My memory is likely faulty, but I don't think any of those guys were first-rounders.

:) Seconded.

I'm with most of the crowd on this thread. If Walker is such a great addition to a team, then why is there ZERO demand for his services out there? No one wants him. The market is a scrub like Matos, so it comes down to how bad Hendry wants to be rid of Walker for his perceived attitude and lousy fundamentals. BTW, if you recall, Walker not fitting in with teams is hardly news. When we signed him, there were many discussions regarding his issues with the Reds in particular, but he was unliked in Colorado and Boston, too. Hendry's mistake was in picking up Walker's option, not realizing that despite the low cost, there was no demand for him in the market. He did this--and most people here supported that move--to try and get an easy draft pick. In retrospect, that was not a wise move. As Diffusion has pointed out elsewhere, it's not like we've had a lot of success with those 2nd round and lower picks, anyways.

If you're going to argue that the Cubs wouldn't have Lee, Ramirez, Barrett, Dempster, Murton, Pierre, Howry et al. were it not for Hendry, it is only fair to point out that if we had someone OTHER than Hendry, we might very well have Vlad Guerrero, Ivan Rodriguez, Miguel Tejada, Rafael Furcal, Adam Dunn, and Raul Ibanez here, amongst others, as those are some of the notable deals he failed to secure.

Let's not get carried away here. Pinto has already been demoted to the Marlins minor league camp, he has the same problems as always--lack of control. Mitre is a classic 4A pitcher, we all know that. He had enough chances here for us to see that he will never be a world-beater. He can be a serviceable spot starter, but he's no big loss. Nolasco I will grant you could be a mistake, I've been a fan of his for quite awhile and that's the only thing I was disappointed with surrounding the Pierre trade. I would have been much happier if Koronka was the third pitcher, but Hendry boxed himself into a corner by not bringing in Furcal, and the cost of his mistake was losing Nolasco.

OK, I have a question. How in the HELL was Albert Pujols a 13th round pick? Wasn't he a monster in high school and everyone could see his potential? I don't think he went to college, so that can't be it. I don't know if you can do this Diffusion, but what are the rounds for the players currently on the big league Cubs, regardless of what organization drafted them?

Kerry Wood, Mark Prior. There are two names that come to mind. ](*,)

In the last year of those 3-year deals, my opinion might change, but at this point I'm just as happy now as I was in November with both the Howry and Eyre signings. If our starter can pitch into the 7th, we have three good relievers to take us home, that's a real switch. And Ohman continues to look good as a loogy. So really, to have a successful 2006 bullpen, we only need ONE of Wuertz, Novoa, Williamson or Wellemeyer to step up and get the job done as the true middle reliever (5th and 6th inning man). Rusch can cover long relief once both Wood and Miller are in the rotation. And as far as that goes, Brownlie could be of help in the bullpen before the season is over, too. Easy to see why Hendry didn't flinch in giving up on Leicester and JVB. We have plenty of arms here.

I am REALLY impressed with this kid. If Cedeno doesn't pick it up, I'm not so sure we're stuck with Neifi. Is it possible the Cubs would give Theriot a chance to win the job? Because in spring training so far, he's been the best of the middle infielders. I'm liking the idea of Hairston and Theriot as a double play combo quite a bit. Defense, speed, hustle, OBP. What's not to like? You still have Neifi as backup if needed. And let's not turn this into a Walker thread, that's a different argument and discussion. An assumption of this thread is that Walker is gone.

Don't forget BB/9 as an important stat too--all other factors constant, the pitcher that can consistently throw strikes tends to be more successful--and certainly goes deeper into ballgames with lower pitch counts--than those that struggle with control. Look at Fergie and Maddux' numbers as just two examples and factor in their durability and longevity. Tom Terrific and Jim Palmer two more good examples. It's just one factor to consider, but WHIP and BB/9 together will get you 90% of the picture I would guesstimate. GB/FB is a good indicator at the margin between good and great pitchers, and bad vs mediocre pitchers, but it's not as telling. Ditto for K/9. Someone with handy access to detailed statistics, I think it would be interesting to see a correlation between WHIP and BB/9 for the top guys lifetime.

There was a rumor here awhile back that Berroa has a drinking problem, FWIW.

Rod Beck was a better Joe Borowski. Control was a huge part of his game. Someone like Lidge is all about stuff. Big difference.

I'm not a Todd Walker fan at all, but if you're going to replace him, at least do it with Soriano, who brings something unique (lots of speed and power) to the mix that our current bunch of 2B do not. Graffanino is a fine player and all, but I don't see that he brings much different to the table than does Walker other than his better defense and slightly better OBP. Why bother? Having said that, if they sent Wellemeyer or Koronka or something like that, or maybe even someone like Novoa, to Boston for Graffanino, I wouldn't be upset about it. He's OK.

I'd trade Walker and Williamson for Fonzie, if Washington equalizes the salaries (would require roughly $2.5MM cash). I'm not a huge Fonzie fan, but he does bring SLG and SB, you can hit him 5th or 6th, where he'd have value, and the 2 slot in the lineup would be opened up for Murton (who I think will be an ideal 2 hitter). We know Soriano's defense will stink, but no worse than Walkers. His OBP is lousy, but not so much of an issue if he hits down in the order. OTOH, those 30 HR, 90 RBI, and 30 SB, Walker can't produce those numbers. I'll take them.

Florida has a lot of young pitching now, but not enough young position players. I would think they'd be quite interested if Arizona offered Quentin, Jackson and Upton, and frankly, no--I do not think Arizona would be overpaying. Those are three monster prospects yes, but Cabrera is a superstar right NOW, and he's just 23, that's sick. I think the Dodgers prospects are overrated to a degree, but obviously the Angels could get something done. Those would be the two teams, Angels and D-backs, that I'd be talking to were I serious about trading Cabrera. Cubs? Not enough quality young talent to get a deal done. We have the QUANTITY of prospects, but we just don't have the top-end quality some other systems have. When I look at our system with an objective eye, it's hard for me to get extremely excited about anyone except Pie and Pawelek.

The Cubs have tons of starters in the minor league system, but look to have a shortage of relievers. Unless they are interested in converting some of their young starters to relief pitchers, they have space and the need for the Boehringers and Cliff Bartosh's of the world. They'll never see Chicago though. BTW, someone brought up money, unless I'm mistaken a standard minor league deal like this one is usually $50,000 for AAA, though someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that.

I'll take Soriano over any of the 2B we currently have, but trading Murton for him is just plain short-sighted. Washington created their own mess here, if they want to get out from it and save $10MM, they're going to have to accept (almost) nothing for him. Wellemeyer and Jerry Hairston, and we take on Fonzie's salary. That's as good as you get, Bowden. I would then deal Walker for whatever you can get for him. Yes, I know all about how bad Fonzie is and that Walker is a better hitter for OBP and average, please, no need to re-recite them here. I take Fonzie because he is a slugger and I'd rather have him than JJ batting 5th. I'll let Murton and Cedeno compete for the 2 slot in the order. JJ bats 6th, where he belongs.

The only reason you sign Lee now if you're the Cubs is if he'll give you a reasonable contract demand to get it done. If he's asking for the moon, then there's no incentive on the Cubs part to do anything now. He's signed for 2006, let him put up similar numbers again and THEN offer him the big money next winter. Because if duplicates his 2005 performance (unlikely), he'll get the $15MM/year anyway (not more). If he's back to his more similar career year of maybe .280/.380/.525 with 30/90, then he's worth $10MM/year, no more. Onus is on Lee here, not the Cubs. I'll extend him now if he wants no more than $12MM/year, anything more than that and he'll need to wait.

Well heck, let's sign Igor **AND** Sammy....nothing like 1000 lifetime big league homers on the bench. Can we dump Mabry and get Raffy, too?? :pig:

If true, smart move on the Cubs' part. Low risk, potential high reward. I, along with others, have championed the logic of bringing back Sammy, though we all know that will never happen for myriad reasons. Igor, if at all healthy, accomplishes the same purpose. We need a RH batting, power hitter off the bench, that can play the OF, and on occasion sub for JJ against lefty starters. Juan Gone would be perfect. How ironic would it be if he stays healthy and bumps JJ from a starting role? You give Gonzalez $500K (KC gave him just $600K last time around), and combined with Jones that is still just $7.5MM for RF. Sit JJ's butt if Igor is healthy and can contribute, financially we're still ahead.

I really don't see how. Tejada's production, considering he is a SS, is pretty remarkable. You might disagree, but it's certainly not ridiculous to rank Tejada third. And I would take him over Lee any day of the week. It's pretty easy to find a decent bat at 1st. Agreed. I love D-Lee, and his defense and speed are advantages over Miggy. But their overall production are very similar, and Tejada plays a much harder position to get production from. As much as I love Lee, I'd take Pujols over him of course, and I'd regard any of Todd Helton, Adam Dunn, Mark Teixeira and perhaps a year or two ago, Carlos Delgado, as just as good. At SS I'm a Jeter fan, and of course A-Rod if he played there. But then there's Miggy, and quite a drop-off after that. I'd rate Miggy top 3 at SS, easily, but not overall. Pujols, ARod, Manny Ramirez, and Cabrera are all better players. It's not Miggy's ability that concerns me. It's giving up a young arm, who is dominant unless he's getting run into by someone or taking a line drive off an elbow, for a 30 year old player. That's a huge no-no and I'd rather Hendry didn't screw us over for the next 5-10 years by trading Prior or Z. I'd rather not have that whiner on this team anyway. He had his pick of clubs when he was a FA and now he's complaining about where he ended up. Sweet. Swapping Prior for Tejada just exchanges one piece for another. You have to look at the differences in production not just at SS, but also with Prior leaving the rotation. Does the swap leave us better off in the short term? I doubt it, since we'd probably be bringing in a minor leaguer into the rotation. It certainly wouldn't be the smart long term decision for this ballclub given the ages of the players in question. Meat, I don't argue your position, I love Prior as much as the next guy. But what if Rich Hill or Angel Guzman are the real deal? Or Wade Miller is healthy? Do we have any shortstops that could similarly fill the bill (answer=no)? We really, REALLY need that extra power bat in the lineup. I guess I'm wavering in my pessimism, given the experience of the last two years, in whether Prior's health will allow him to ever live up to his early promise. I mean geez, compare October 2003 to February 2006. At a minimum, Dontrelle Willis, Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, Rich Harden and maybe even Felix Hernandez have passed him by. Is Mark Prior REALLY all that untouchable??

Especially to craig or mark or tim, but anyone else that wants to chime in of course.... What do you think/hope for Angel in 2006? I think it's safe to say this is a make-or-break year for the guy, but gee whiz, he has such monster stuff. IF he can just stay healthy....I think a lot of people have forgotten how talented this kid is, and he is still a kid for the most part. We hear a lot of talk about Francisco Liriano, Zach Duke, Chad Billingsley, Matt Cain, and Ervin Santana, and justifiably so, but I think Guzman deserves to be discussed in the same group. I like him SO much more than Rich Hill. Comments??

I really don't see how. Tejada's production, considering he is a SS, is pretty remarkable. You might disagree, but it's certainly not ridiculous to rank Tejada third. And I would take him over Lee any day of the week. It's pretty easy to find a decent bat at 1st. Agreed. I love D-Lee, and his defense and speed are advantages over Miggy. But their overall production are very similar, and Tejada plays a much harder position to get production from. As much as I love Lee, I'd take Pujols over him of course, and I'd regard any of Todd Helton, Adam Dunn, Mark Teixeira and perhaps a year or two ago, Carlos Delgado, as just as good. At SS I'm a Jeter fan, and of course A-Rod if he played there. But then there's Miggy, and quite a drop-off after that.

BRING BACK THE GLADIATOR!!!!!

I love Greg Maddux, but I don't want him back in 2007. Nor Kerry Wood. I'd much rather go after a quality FA starter like Zito, and give a job to either Rich Hill or Angel Guzman, whichever one is ready. It's time for one of our vaunted minor league pitching prospects to step up to the plate for 2007--and at the major league minimum salary, not $9MM like Greg Maddux or $12MM for Kerry Wood. If Maddux wants to talk about a $5MM/year deal to replace Dusty as manager for 2007 though, now I'm interested. Player-manager, let Maddux be the spot starter and long reliever? I could live with that.