don_kessinger_was_good

Win now versus win later, that is the Cubs mantra. Moore has value right now, and we are officially on the hook to Aramis for 5 years, guaranteed. Get your value out of Moore, and use him in a trade. He's not going to break in the lineup in Chicago, and he'd be wasted sitting on Lou's bench getting two ABs a week as a PH. To the poster immediately above, Garcia is a proven commodity, Marshall is still unproved (and looked pretty darn shaky at times). We have three guys just like him in Mateo, Marmol and Guzman, none are proven yet, you can't keep them all. You want to substitute one of the others for Marshall, OK, but you have to get the trade partner interested in that name, too. Myself, I don't see Marshall as a future stud pitcher, I would have no hesitation in trading him.

Phils get: Scott Moore and Sean Marshall White Sox get: Aaron Rowand the Sequel Cubs get: Freddy Garcia White Sox get salary relief, solve one of their OF spots, and free up space finally for Brandon McCarthy. Phillies get salary relief (allowing for a more aggressive offer to Soriano), a potential future 3B star, and a possible immediate #5 starter. Cubs get a veteran starter and absorb Garcia's one-year, $10MM salary to the Sox' benefit. Everyone wins on this deal that I can see. I'd sure rather pay Freddy Garcia $10MM for one year than $30MM to Gil freakin' Meche for 4 years. Also, Garcia is another of Lou's "Seattle boys", that's sure to play well, and he's Big Z's countryman, anything to put a smile on Z's face...

Not sure it's fair to lump DeRosa in with those other stiffs. He has actually improved for TWO consecutive years now, his OPS was nearly 800 in 05, that's not bad for a guy that can basically play six positions on the field. Lou values production, if DeRosa struggles and Theriot looks good again in 07, I don't think he'll hesitate to swap their roles and make DeRosa the supersub and Theriot a starter. I just don't think $4MM for a guy that DOES have some value and skills is something to get worked up over. I posted in another thread that if you carefully walk through all the other supposed 2B options, there really wasn't anything out there that was strikingly better than this deal, with the sole exception (IMO) of Iwamura. That would have been my choice.

Are the other 2B options out there really all THAT much better? I would have taken the chance on Iwamura myself, but otherwise you have-- 1. An old Ray Durham, who is physically at risk and will command more $$ than DeRosa. 2. Mark Loretta, who will likely make about the same $$, but is a 2B only. DeRosa doesn't HAVE to be your starting 2B to still bring value to the team (though admittedly, he'll be an expensive super-sub in that scenario). 3. Soriano. There's no way Fonzie is ever going back to 2B. 4. Nomar. He was never that good defensively at his NATURAL position, now he's going to try and play his 4th position in three years? Serious injury risk, and we've been down that path before (though I love Nomar). 5. Orlando Hudson? Meh. 6. Ryan Theriot? I love the kid, but we got burned last year in reading too much into a hot month and a half from Cedeno in late 05. You can't risk that again. 7. Ronnie Belliard? Ugh. 8. Marcus Giles? At least DeRosa's peripherals are IMPROVING each year. Giles keeps getting worse. And haven't we learned that Atlanta is usually pretty astute at knowing when to cut bait with their own players. 9. Todd Walker? Haha. 10. Rich Aurilia? Now, I actually wouldn't have minded this one so much, as he can play 3B obviously too, but he will almost certainly be more expensive in $$ without THAT much marginal improvement in play compared to DeRosa. So I dislike me some Hendry big time, that is no secret, but it appears they used some logical analysis here and made what they thought was the best move, can't fault him for that. If DeRosa could duplicate his 06 performance, then everyone is happy and he's a bargain at $4MM. And he DOES bring that super-sub flexibility, every team needs one, and Lou is on record as WANTING one. Nope, not gonna slam Hendry on this one. As is his want, the LENGTH of the contract was ill-advised, that's the worst part of the deal, but the $$ or the player selection doesn't throw me into full panic mode. Yet.

Yankees won't have any interest in Marshall and Moore, they don't play kids in NY unless injuries (eg, Wang) or complete lack of other options (eg, Cano) require them to. I do think they'd like Garcia and Prior, Howry would be the guy they'd likely be most interested in as a third. They can always sign Nomar for 3B once A-Rod leaves....

Burrell has a limited NTC, last I heard the Cubs are not one of his acceptable teams. He has indicated he'd be willing to go to the Giants for some reason though.

I call Shenanigans on Wilken, I think he's just CYA with the praise to cover for his ill-advised pick. No matter how "excited" he wants to be, the fact remains the pick was a huge reach.

Still doesn't make sense why Boston spends $148 million and the Cubs $100. They're competing with the Yankees. We're spending as much if not more than our division rivals. Money isn't the issue. It's how it's spent. Jones + Izturis + Dempster + Rusch = $17MM Howry + Eyre (luxuries) = $8MM Prior (never healthy) = $4MM There's nearly $30MM in money for players that essentially do not make your 90+ loss team any better. Ouch.

I don't see any resolution to the original poster's query, because the market is all #4 pitchers other than Zito, Schmidt and Matsuzaka. What else can you do? No team with a bona fide #1 or #2 is making them available in trade, at least not that I've read. This is the problem when you're the Cubs and you've invested 5 years and many dollars into a pitching-heavy minor league system, and essentially have nothing to show for it other than Zambrano and Hill. The teams that don't have a pitching problem have for the most part grown their own talent. Detroit, Minnesota, Cleveland, Oakland, San Diego. Add in the fact that both NY teams are aggressively looking to add starters, and I think bringing in two #4s is about the best that can be hoped for here.

I've seen a couple stories now that the Padres are having second thoughts about Brian Giles. If the Cubs could move Jones, would a Giles brothers tandem be desirable? Team OBP would be improved at least, as B. Giles > Jones and M. Giles > Cedeno or Izturis. Let Theriot and Izturis platoon at SS, sign Roberts to a short-term deal (he can play CF, right?), and concentrate on pitching for the rest of the offseason. This lineup would score some runs I think-- 1. Roberts, 2. M. Giles, 3. B. Giles, 4. Lee, 5. Ramirez, 6. Barrett, 7. Murton, 8. Theriot/Izturis. Not bad and financially do-able.

Drew fits a need for this team better than Fonzie. The only negatives with JD are his tendency to get hurt and his perceived lackadaisy approach to the game. So he should fit right in with Ramirez and Prior, no? I like that Drew is a consistent OBP machine though, hits left-handed, good power, decent defense, and he can run a bit. Really, there's nothing about his baseball ability to fault. But after our experiences with Wood and Prior and Nomar, it's hard to pull the trigger on a guy you don't have confidence in that he can play 150+ games for you. Frankly, I'd rather see if Hendry could pull off a trade for a high-priced bat on another team that said team is looking to move, with us on the hook for fewer years than either Drew or Soriano will get. Andruw Jones, Pat Burrell, Manny Ramirez and Adam Dunn would be the four obvious names here. I don't believe any of them are signed for more than three additional years, tops. In fact, in Burrell's case I know it's just two more years for sure. Then who will bat leadoff, squawk! Who will bat leadoff, squawk! Well, I think Theriot deserves a shot. If the Cubs can move Jones, then Dave Roberts is a good option. And I am hoping (but surely will be disappointed) the Cubs could land Iwamura, I'd love to see him get a chance at batting in the two-hole, I think he'd good there.

Johnny Estrada is supposedly available in trade. If he is, I would gladly swap Barrett + prospect for Wells if Estrada could be brought in as the replacement. Barrett is better than Estrada, but not by all THAT much, and we have a desperate need for a quality OF. Sign Drew and move Jones, and now you'd be talking.

I guess if I were just hired as the GM after Jim Hendry is fired, I'd probably put in a bid and try to get Iwamura here. I'd also bring back Nomar, with the knowledge that if he gets hurt (again), I'd have Scott Moore in Iowa working on his game. I figure both Iwamura and Nomar will be in the $6MM range, or combined a bit less than what Ramirez would have made. I then turn my focus to JD Drew, who I regard as a priority (unlike Hendry, I am willing to aggressively be high bidder), and I pursue trades involving Jock, Izturis and Dempster, none of whom I want. I will also include one or two of my starting pitchers (anyone but Z and Hill), and in the right deal, I'll move Murton as well. My trade targets would be a corner outfielder and a veteran starting pitcher. Finally, I'd poke around to see just how healthy Eric Gagne is going to be, and I certainly am a player for one of the several #3/#4 type FA starting pitchers on the market. Net result would not be a powerhouse, bona fide World Series contender, but a decent team that might compete for a playoff spot at least.

See, the difference is that the Angels are a winning organization. They have homegrown talent that they develop and nurture, the owner has deep pockets and is willing to spend, the GM is aggressive and goes for the throat. The Cubs. We are quite the laughingstock, aren't we? And really, I can't blame Aramis one iota. I'd do the same thing, take the money and head to a winner, he'd never get to play in a World Series if he stayed with this group of zeroes. Good luck Rammy.

Honestly, this team will never win crap. Truly, the most pathetic organization in American sports. They don't even WANT to win. But hey Jim Hendry, as you pass Larry Himes in the pathetic totem order of lousy GMs, congratulations on that high priority signing of Wade Miller this week, that was crucial, dude! If you hurry, I think you can get Freddie Bynum signed as well, he saved us last year, get that done if you're not too busy, OK?

Leave Sammy alone. Sosa rulez.

Typical Cubs fans. Rationalize the failure. Way to go. This is a guy the deadbeat Cubs should have gone and got. But like dozens of impact free agents before, the Cubs make a token effort and lose out, yet again. I love this team for all of my 42 years, but I'm sick of losing to others. This completely sucks.

Since the Cubs apparently didn't bid much for Matsuzaka, there is really no excuse not to give Ramirez what he wants with all the money the Cubs have to spend.

Rotoworld says the Rangers made a huge offer rumored to be $30MM. So much for the Cubs in this game. Wow, that wasn't predictable. :roll:

Haha, fans talking about getting Drew, and Matsuzaka, and/or Schmidt or Soriano, hilarious. You do know this is the Cubs, right? Shut up and be happy with the Dave Roberts, Mark DeRosa, Wade Miller and Ted Lilly signings you're going to get, them boys spell World Series to me!

I remember a clearly-intoxicated Harry mangling Sosa's name repeatedly during a game in the early 90s, Sammy "Sooser", hilarious.

Cubs got a decent coach, terrific! I'm sure he'll turn Izturis, Cedeno, Jones and all the other stiffs on the Cubs into instant hitting machines. Cubs need good PLAYERS, not coaches (though on its own Perry seems like a fine choice).

When do we find out that the Cubs were outbid for a high profile free agent? Again.

Pie is quickly becoming a non-prospect, IMO. Future impact players do not spin their wheels in the minors, no matter the level and no matter the age. He may be a big leaguer eventually, but he's no future superstar. Cubs should try and extract what remaining value he has in trade THIS WINTER.

Sammy was never the same after the Salomon Torres beaning, I'm convinced that, more than anything else, hastened his decline. After that, he bailed out terribly on pitches, he got so frustrated he used the corked bat, and eventually he couldn't get around on the fastball anymore because he was always overcompensating for the breaking ball down and away. If Sammy could hit 250/330/450 and accept a bench role, you bet I'd take him back as a 4th outfielder/pinch hitter, why not?