wade

He's been trying to leak the truth to us for years, and the Cubs have been trying to unload him for fear that the TRUTH will be known!! Todd Walker power to the people!! 8) He kinda reminds me of Fox Mulder.

What was it Todd Walker said about management and honesty? :shock:

I'm going to try to look at this two ways. One, in the Trib article today there is quick mention that Prior had planned to go to San Diego today all along. With Yokum being in California, maybe the Cubs saw it as an opportunity to double check his shoulder and if o.k. he won't miss more that a day or two. BUT Two, two years ago, during the achilles saga, they sent him to Northwestern for tests and didn't tell anyone that the elbow would be looked at until later. I did a lexis-nexis search and March 28-29 2004 he went for the tests and the articles in the papers following that all express surprise that there was even concern over the elbow and that the Cubs had been insisting all was well the previous week (sound familiar?). So I guess I'm saying, who knows? That trip he checked out structurally o.k., but was still delayed a significant amount of time. No matter whether the Cubs are inept, conspiring for ticket sales, or out of Prior's loop, I can't believe anything until he pitches in some kind of game. Hopefully that will happen this year.

I'm usually not a chicken little, but the same bunch also had Wood pitch in relief after they decided he should have shoulder surgery. I'm really, really frustrated with my favorite team right now.

Maybe he is. This could just be a coincidence. He even said on The Score that he wasn't really sure. Most likely it was a guess. I thought Will Carroll said it was an elbow problem? :? Here's a copy and paste from the article- "You can't have spring training anymore without pitcher problems or at least rumors of said problems. Those usually start with the Cubs, and this year is no different. Reliable sources--the same ones that tipped us early to Mark Prior's Achilles problem--now tell us that Prior is having shoulder problems" http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4778 Look, I don't want to be right and I hope I'm wrong, but it's awfully strange that a pitcher in good health has been babied like this and is now headed to a doctor. Go back two pages in this thread. Guys on here (not me, they're smarter) have been saying something is not right. I'm afraid they were right.

Maybe he is. This could just be a coincidence. He even said on The Score that he wasn't really sure. Most likely it was a guess. Pretty good one, then.

Boy, that Will Carroll sure is full of it.

I think this is a textbook example of the "straw man argument".

Actually that was Dock Ellis http://www.gettingit.com/article/691 No love for Denny McLean of the Tigers circa late '60's?

Most people believe it's greatest benefit would be in the ability to bounce back after an outing. Yeah, and it could conceivably prolong their career. Perhaps allowing guys in their 40's to still throw with the same velocity as their younger days. I don't think there's any doubt that steroids can make athletes perform better or else they wouldn't take them.

How do you feel about the whole 'spitball pitchers in the Hall' argument? Obviously obtaining spit is only gross and not illegal so it's not exactly the same, but do most baseball fans resent pitchers who may or may not have cheated when they were pitching? Is that a breach of sportsmanship? I'm not even sure how I stand on the matter. Just curious what others think. (To clarify, I believe steroids = bad) Spit balls were allowed for a while. Steroids were always against the rules, they just didn't have testing. And I don't think the two are near the same category. But isn't Vida Blue, or some dude like that in the Hall and everybody is pretty sure he threw spitters when they were illegal? BBB makes a good point along with yours, in that they probably weren't thrown on every pitch, whereas steroids make you stronger all the time.

Actually kryptonite would hurt my game, as it makes me sick to be around it.

How do you feel about the whole 'spitball pitchers in the Hall' argument? Obviously obtaining spit is only gross and not illegal so it's not exactly the same, but do most baseball fans resent pitchers who may or may not have cheated when they were pitching? Is that a breach of sportsmanship? I'm not even sure how I stand on the matter. Just curious what others think. (To clarify, I believe steroids = bad)

Under know circumstances should you post links to that site.

This one is on the decline of the number of african-americans playing baseball in MLB since the '70's. http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/cubs.asp?id=164389 I think this is a good article and there are good quotes from Baker as well.

See, this is my point. I may be totally different from other people (and I may sound like an internet embellisher! :^o ) but I did put on 15 pounds of muscle in 100 days. The spring of my 34th birthday and again the spring of my 35th. That's a total of 30, and I've lost hardly any. I hope to do it again since I turned 36 last Sunday. I tell this because I worked out a lot in the preceeding 7 years and didn't gain a lick. Only when I completely dedicated my diet, lifestyle, and certain lifts did this happen, and it was extremely difficult while working full-time and being a married father of two. But, it did happen and so when people say it's impossible I disagree. Especially in the case of professional athletes with unlimited time, motivation, and money to help with their goals (even if they do it without the juice). Again, I believe Bonds did steroids. What I don't count as proof is that he put on 15 pounds of muscle in the '98 off-season. That on its own does not seal the deal for me. Nor does one picture. All that other stuff in the book excerpt is convincing enough. 1. You didn't mention that you were on steroids :D 2. Barry always worked out hard. You said you worked out harder and were extra dedicated. I doubt Barry was so dedicated that even after being an incredible athlete beforehand he was so dedicated that he gained 15 extra pounds. 1. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that! No seriously, the only pee test I'd fail is for alcohol. (if there is such a thing) 2. Good point, he was already elite before the change and I of course was not. I believe he did use steroids to make that change, just that the change itself in and of itself is not where the proof lies.

I feel like I've read the majority of it from the cnn.com site. It was about 10 pages!

Barry Bonds has never whipped a bunch of SR2 robots. :D

Smith can work out as hard as he wants because he doesn't have to catch up to a 95 mph. fastball the next afternoon. My point in that earlier analogy is that a picture alone doesn't do it for me. (Unless you've got one with Barry and a big fat needle!). The picture was posted with "Case closed" under it. I just disagree with the fact that a guy is extremely muscular proving his use of anabolics. Post the link to the story and say "case closed" and I agree.

See, this is my point. I may be totally different from other people (and I may sound like an internet embellisher! :^o ) but I did put on 15 pounds of muscle in 100 days. The spring of my 34th birthday and again the spring of my 35th. That's a total of 30, and I've lost hardly any. I hope to do it again since I turned 36 last Sunday. I tell this because I worked out a lot in the preceeding 7 years and didn't gain a lick. Only when I completely dedicated my diet, lifestyle, and certain lifts did this happen, and it was extremely difficult while working full-time and being a married father of two. But, it did happen and so when people say it's impossible I disagree. Especially in the case of professional athletes with unlimited time, motivation, and money to help with their goals (even if they do it without the juice). Again, I believe Bonds did steroids. What I don't count as proof is that he put on 15 pounds of muscle in the '98 off-season. That on its own does not seal the deal for me. Nor does one picture. All that other stuff in the book excerpt is convincing enough.

It kinda does. I used to lift weights like crazy and became quite big, benching a little over 300 lbs. Doing the type of workouts I did requires at least a day of recovery time, and you're weak and stiff during the recovery day. Baseball doesn't give you many days off, so I can't see how any drug-free person could do a linebacker's weightlifting program during the baseball season and still play 5-6 games per week at a peak performance level. Remember, one of the primary benefits of roids is that they dramatically reduce recovery time. Also, the season is 6 months long, so I don't see any way you could avoid losing a lot of muscle by September unless you continued to lift at the same pace at least through the first half of the season. I can tell you when your muscles get really big they also quickly deflate if you slack off. It is really hard work to stay huge and ripped. All these roid monsters stayed huge from April to October. There is no way they could have done that without chemical help. Maybe every person is different, but once I put on muscle it doesn't go away. I may lose a little water weight if I back off for a while but that's it. I'm just saying a photo alone, taken that very minute doesn't prove anything. I guess what I'm saying is I could post a picture of Will Smith from I, Robot and say "see, roids" and I don't think that makes it so.

Me neither. If you went off looks alone, every running back at the N.F.L. combine last week was on the gas. There's evidence, it's just elsewhere.

If anyone cares, there is a long excerpt from the book at cnn.com. Scroll down to sports and click on the Bonds link. I'm only on page 3 and it's pretty interesting. The only thing I disagree with so far is the author's assertion early on that no 34 year old can put on 15 pounds of muscle in 100 days. I know they can because I've done it myself. Twice. Once at 34 and once at 35. I'm getting ready to try again. And I'm not professional athlete that stands to make millions of dollars more and gain tremendous fame. Not only do those guys have the incentive, they have the time, money, and resources to do so. Now, I want to be clear that I don't doubt Bonds did steroids. I just think it's a little bit of hyperbole to say no one can gain a lot of muscle in a 3-4 month period and that everybody and their brother should have seen in the spring of 99 that Bonds juiced. Some saw, no doubt, and just didn't say anything.

Diffusion, that was an outstanding post.

Unfortunately, also going on recent history, they will go off in the second half and still make the playoffs. :x I'm just saying our best hope is that they suck at the start again and Clemens will be disuaded to go there so will not be able to have that run again. You're right and I hope it happens. If they can play as badly for a whole year as they've played at the beginning of the last two that's one less team to worry about. I also hope as a Cub fan that Petite starts to decline this year. That staff is not too deep, though Peter Gammons was talking up a guy who is coming off surgery this morning on Mike and Mike.